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Post 10 Feb 2023, 12:14 • #1 
Guide
Joined: 06/15/20
Posts: 260
Location: Toledo, Ohio, USA.
Here are some pics of a build I recently finished up. 8' 5wt Soulmate Glassic with a fiberglass reel seat insert. Am I correct to say that's a Dickerson style reel seat? Also, I was trying to get lighter colored wraps on a dark blank. I somewhat succeeded using pro wrap beeswax color. However, I was hoping for even a little lighter. Are there any tips for doing this without using NCP thread?






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Post 10 Feb 2023, 13:14 • #2 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8920
Location: US-ME
Well I think that looks darn good. For lighter, without color preserver, Tan. It won't be quite clear, and it will have character from the color of the blank. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=16547&p=101361&hilit=I+don%27t+use+silk#p101266

If tan is too light, between that and the color you used would be some other "light browns" that might be appealing. I sure wouldn't change that one for a tweak, but going head on into another would be fun. A few new spools of thread and some test wraps on the butt that will later be concealed by the grip would get you there, and then we get too see another rod.

Almost always you get more character out of one-time builds by skipping the color preserver or NCP thread. But even if planning to use color preserver, if you're really fussy about color tone and light/dark, view the rod outdoors in varying natural light conditions.


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Post 10 Feb 2023, 16:49 • #3 
Sport
Joined: 12/16/21
Posts: 32
I’m with whrlpool, that really looks nice. If I remember correctly you used beeswax on a Steffen build, that was really nice looking also. I have a brown blank to build and I’m going to test beeswax on it. Keep up the good work.


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Post 10 Feb 2023, 17:18 • #4 
Master Guide
Joined: 02/07/18
Posts: 428
Location: US-MA
That is a very attractive build - nice color and that reel seat is very nice looking as well. Looking forward to seeing your thoughts on the rod when you cast and fish it.


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Post 10 Feb 2023, 17:57 • #5 
Sport
Joined: 03/28/21
Posts: 70
I think it looks great and I wouldn't change a thing.
Chris


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Post 10 Feb 2023, 20:18 • #6 
Guide
Joined: 06/15/20
Posts: 260
Location: Toledo, Ohio, USA.
Thanks everyone. I am happy with the build overall... I was just hoping the wraps were a touch lighter

Aughty, good memory my friend. Yes, the same pro wrap beeswax thread from a Steffens build I didn't. I really like the color on a variety of different blank colors.

And at the moment I am almost finished with three 8' 5wts that I am excited to compare.


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Post 11 Feb 2023, 12:07 • #7 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/31/15
Posts: 1238
Location: Northern Rockies
This looks really great. I am with the others, the thread color turned out nicely.

It’s always tough going with lighter thread on dark blanks. The blank color has a lot of impact on the final result. I have some almond-colored Pro Wrap that turned a rich brown, between medium and dark, on a black blank. I really like it, especially in the sunlight. But I’m a honey yellow blank, it is almost too light for my tastes.

Do your wraps look different in the sun? I really appreciate the way that the non-preserved colors deepen with a dark blank but shine when outside.


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Post 11 Feb 2023, 12:52 • #8 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8920
Location: US-ME
GR has a good point there--all the more reason to test wrap if fussy. On a dark blank, no CP wraps may become too transparent and thus take on the color of the blank more than wanted. Again, that's a great look on your blank, but it is possible that because a slightly darker thread may become less transparent/lucent when finished, it won't darken as much from the underlying blank. Thus, it could turn out more contrasting/lighter.

Hope you will do another one to find out and then display the ideal outcome you were wanting.


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Post 11 Feb 2023, 13:07 • #9 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 09/18/09
Posts: 5561
Location: Relocated to the Drought Stricken West.
So do you also want to avoid using CP on normal nylon or silk? I find CP applied to nylon looks much better than NCP thread.

Basically it's really hard to get thread to come out lighter than the blank without using some sort of color preserver or material that doesn't absorb the finish (metalic).

Using CP and Epoxy will change the color of the thread some, but not much, and it is fairly consistent across blank colors.


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Post 11 Feb 2023, 15:16 • #10 
Master Guide
Joined: 03/09/15
Posts: 684
Location: Arkansas
I like it.


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Post 11 Feb 2023, 20:31 • #11 
Guide
Joined: 04/26/19
Posts: 179
Location: L'Étoile du Nord
Very nice, very pleasing to my eye. Be proud of that one.


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Post 11 Feb 2023, 22:34 • #12 
Guide
Joined: 02/13/16
Posts: 326
Location: US-TX
Really nice build. I love that combo, esp with the light trim.

I had the same desire you had (I think), and I've never liked the results I've gotten with CP. I wanted something translucent with a bit more of the color remaining. I was messing around one time with Tru Oil as a finish, and it seemed to give more sheen/luster than I've gotten with spar varnishes I've tried. Plus no shimmers. I'll just lightly wet the thread with TO before finishing. Let it dry but not cure. I really like the effect and so far no long-term issues putting epoxy or spar varnish over top of it.

I didn't want to take over your post with my own pics but can throw up an example if you're interested. It's not on a dark blank but you'll get the gist to see if you even like the effect.


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Post 12 Feb 2023, 13:47 • #13 
Guide
Joined: 06/15/20
Posts: 260
Location: Toledo, Ohio, USA.
Hi Everyone

Thanks for your compliments. Yes, I always do test wraps. I knew this is how it was going to turn out. While my original vision was that the wraps would be a bit lighter, this was the best option from the threads I had on hand. Overall, I am happy with it. I was just wondering in general if there's a way to get light wraps on a darker blank to turn out lighter. I haven't been very happy using color preserver or NCP thread, but I appreciate the tips people have offered and there are some I hadn't been aware of. So thanks.

preast, thanks. That's a good tip that I'll have to try. Feel free to post images to this thread, I'd like to see them.

GlacierRambler, whrlppool, and others, we finally had some non-cloudy days here in Toledo, so I was able to get some pictures out in the bright sun. The colors pop nicely in the sun.






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Post 12 Feb 2023, 14:58 • #14 
Guide
Joined: 02/13/16
Posts: 326
Location: US-TX
This is ProWrap Almond (a couple shades browner than Beeswax) on an amber blank. I don't have any good pics on a dark blank but I have done a test before. It was still a slight but noticeable difference than without TO. I think it just acts like a mild CP. I don't know if I'd say it's darker, just less transparent and it does add a kind of sheen. You might get the same effect with spar, but again, I never figured out how to avoid shimmers and gave up on that.

Outside in full sun

Indoor


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Post 12 Feb 2023, 16:38 • #15 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/31/15
Posts: 1238
Location: Northern Rockies
Now that I think about it, Fuji Ultra Poly seems to stay closer to original on a dark blank than ProWrap. Could be worth a try.


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Post 12 Feb 2023, 16:41 • #16 
Guide
Joined: 11/23/17
Posts: 314
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA
Great rods JShenk_615 and preast, keep them coming.


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Post 12 Feb 2023, 16:48 • #17 
Administrator
Joined: 01/10/06
Posts: 7811
Location: Holly Springs, NC
JShenk_615 wrote:
I was trying to get lighter colored wraps on a dark blank...

Light colored thread under spar varnish or epoxy gives a transparent wrap (more or less). Light travels through a transparent object. A dark colored rod blank absorbs the light passing through the wrap, leaving very little to reflect back. Visually, the wrap looks as dark, or darker, than the underlying rod blank. Basic physics work against lighter colored wraps on a dark blank.

A light colored wrap is achieved by reflecting light rather than allowing it to pass through. This is done with NCP thread or plain thread treated with color preservative. In practice, NCP thread gives predicable results under standard rod finishes. Some rod builders prefer plain thread and color preservative. Given all the different color preservative recipes (and the continued internet debates about them) getting good results from color preservative takes practice.

The other option is to make the dark blank reflect light. This can be done with a light colored paint under the wraps, an NCP thread underwrap, or a mylar underwrap. Many of these techniques show up on old school vintage glass, particularly spinning rods and boat rods. Paint is easy and cheap, but will look ugly under a transparent wrap*. Mylar under a transparent wrap might be interesting (see the photo of a Conolon Ritz below). NCP thread underwraps work best with larger rods and heavier threads.


Tom



* Painting light colored bands on a dark blank was done so light colored NCP wraps would not show gaps. Sometimes short thread spirals let the underlying paint show through as a design element.


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Post 12 Feb 2023, 19:58 • #18 
Master Guide
Joined: 11/11/13
Posts: 774
Location: US-CA
Great looking rod the wraps and tippings complement the blank color really well. Very nice finish work on the wraps. Well done!!!!


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Post 12 Feb 2023, 21:37 • #19 
Guide
Joined: 06/15/20
Posts: 260
Location: Toledo, Ohio, USA.
Thanks everyone.

GlacierRambler, thanks for the tip about fuji ultra poly.

preast, nice work on that Ben's blank.

jgestar, I'll have to study that post a little more. But I think you for the next level tip.


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Post 17 Feb 2023, 18:03 • #20 
Master Guide
Joined: 07/21/21
Posts: 447
Location: Florida
Beautiful, well done.


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Post 18 Feb 2023, 11:45 • #21 
Sport
Joined: 12/30/16
Posts: 43
Location: US-SF
I did some color tests using Mini Wax Polycrylic vs. varnish vs. epoxy
and found it had a slight color-preserving effect. It goes on like water which requires quite a few applications to create a smooth even finish, but it seemed to preserve the color of the thread more so than anything else; was quite surprised. I haven't used it on a rod so can't comment on its longevity or strength but I believe others have used it instead of epoxy and other finishes.

As for light wraps on dark blanks, I agree that Fuji's threads seem to hold their color a little better than Pro Wrap or silk but it's always going to be problematic.


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