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Post 01 Jun 2021, 07:53 • #1 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 11/30/10
Posts: 1847
Location: Michigan
I recently finished out some of the Trout Smith's bait caster rods. Ultra light 2 to 4lbs. 5'6", 6'0" and 7'0" 3pc models. I sent a couple blanks to Backbone custom rods and had them painted to resemble cane. These are super fun rods. I am building in batches.









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Post 03 Jun 2021, 07:01 • #2 
New Member
Joined: 08/30/14
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Location: Belgrade, Serbia
Magnificent!


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Post 03 Jun 2021, 15:54 • #3 
Master Guide
Joined: 10/10/15
Posts: 427
Location: Italy
Nice job Shane !
Paolo


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Post 03 Jun 2021, 17:19 • #4 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19077
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
need an Ambassadeur 1500 sitting on one of those


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Post 03 Jun 2021, 17:23 • #5 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 11/30/10
Posts: 1847
Location: Michigan
Thanks! And Thanks Ron... that is a FAQ.. for sure.


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Post 04 Jun 2021, 07:43 • #6 
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Joined: 06/10/09
Posts: 1651
Location: US-OH
Showing my ignorance here but is there such a thing as UL baitcasting? My limited experience with baitcasting has been that they don't cast well with lightweight lures and tend toward backlash. Also, very light line on baitcasting reels is generally not recommended due to the tendency for the line to dig into the spool. Nice looking rods!


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Post 04 Jun 2021, 18:07 • #7 
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Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=70846#p394361

I put together one that will consistently cast 2 g beyond 100' with nothing even close to backlash.
It out-performs comparable spinning tackle in both distance and especially accuracy.
Accelerating the weightless spool is more fun than you might imagine.

Eliminating backlash means getting spool + line mass and inertia as small as possible, and a good linear mag brake for controlling mid-cast wind backlash.
There's no start-up backlash, because light lures create no spool jerk or overshoot on start-up.

There are applications for trout, bass, and inshore.
The Japanese have been stream fishing trout this way for a decade and over the past few years have added rods for shore fishing.
Bass anglers in the US are really taking them over, but 1/4 oz is a light lure to most.
We have a member with two posts who has a website for finesse baitcasting, aiming especially at trout - memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=7241
Here's his website - https://www.finesse-fishing.com/trout-b ... -rods.html

But it's really nothing new, the history of UL baitcasting goes back to prewar Shakespeare 1740 Tournament freespool, and people were fishing Langley freespool reels this way after the war. Takes a wise thumb, but this will fish 3 g all day.
Image Image

Ambassadeur 2500C was introduced in 1976.
Japan, Thailand, Korea and China now offer amazing light parts for racing them out - getting the inertia down
https://japantackle.com/tuning-parts/br ... inder.html

I buy Japanese trout plugs, 3-4-g, and swap the size 14 and 18 fw trebles for size 4 and 6 salt singles for my winter glass minnow salt niche.


Last edited by bulldog1935 on 05 Jun 2021, 07:12, edited 2 times in total.

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Post 04 Jun 2021, 19:23 • #8 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/10/09
Posts: 1651
Location: US-OH
Great info Ron, thanks!


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Post 04 Jun 2021, 20:14 • #9 
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Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19077
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
I have been having a blast - my kind of fun, bro

you don't have to go to my extreme - if you shop JDM you can find Japan Special BFS reels from Daiwa, Shimano and Abu Japan.
There are even China reels on Ali Express.
Of course I love the tinkering, setting my target capability and then meeting or exceeding that...
One reason I like Japan Tackle is Jun Sonata there is so sharp and has great English - all of his tech pages are worth reading.
They don't sell rods, but pretty much everything else, especially great parts - lures, too.

The Japanese also offer the highest quality light fluorocarbon lines, Toray, YGK, even better Seaguar than sold here. If you're on a learning curve, 2-1/2- to 4-lb fluoro is a better choice than braid, because small braid is too limp and can create folded backlashes that you can't even see.


Last edited by bulldog1935 on 07 Jun 2021, 06:05, edited 2 times in total.

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Post 05 Jun 2021, 04:47 • #10 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 11/30/10
Posts: 1847
Location: Michigan
Thanks Bulldog, I've had many request for these UL baitcasters.


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Post 05 Jun 2021, 08:43 • #11 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/10/09
Posts: 1651
Location: US-OH
Looks like we may need another subcategory in the forum :)


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Post 06 Jun 2021, 12:16 • #12 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/05/06
Posts: 2086
Location: US-PA
I for one am fascinated and intrigued with the idea of fishing light with baitcasting equipment versus spinning gear as I really hate spinning reels but use them out of necessity when I throw light stuff, especially when bait fishing which I do when I want to relax. ;)

Just this past Tuesday I spent the entire day on a lake fishing bait (night crawlers) for panfish and anything else interested. My rig consisted of a circle hook with a 1/3 of a worm on it, one #5 or #7 split shot and a slip float, 6lb test mono so the whole rig might come in at 2.5 grams?

Casting distance under MAYBE 50 feet, probably more like 20 - 30 feet most often.

So from the experienced, how would I fare with a BFS reel (and what reel and is extra tweaking required) and say a rod from Shane?

To be honest, I'll be all over it if I can ditch the spinning rod for that kind of fishing!!


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Post 06 Jun 2021, 21:42 • #13 
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Joined: 08/10/05
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Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
As I mentioned above, my limited experience casting BFS is back-acre and one fishing trip, though many more miles fishing 1/4 and 1/8 oz in inshore MM and ML baitcast niches.
This includes an engineer's mind attacking the cast itself and the types of brake systems out there.

On the range of weights from 1/16 to 1/4 oz, centrifugal brake really isn't needed to prevent start-up backlash, and provides too much, distance-limiting brake "over the hump" at mid cast (where wind backlash occurs).
Lightweight shallow spool, good linear mag brake, and efficient spool bearings are everything you're looking for, but 3 grams seems to be a magic number.
If you want to get the inertia of an Ambassadeur 2500C or 1500C down to that capability, it will take working over the LW with fancy parts and probably a shallow spool, as well.
It's my kind of fun, and would make a great project.

There are great off-the-shelf reels ready to go - most in Japan Domestic Market, but recent versions have been and will be introduced here - probably easier to find stock in JDM, though.
I would be looking at Daiwa "Air" and Abu Revo BF reels. Shimano's recent entries are the JDM Scorpion BFS and in US Market, the very cost-effective Curado BFS.

I fish small braid on mine, but I go for years without a backlash on my baitcasters, and when I get one, it's because I have a line wrap on the tip or maybe mid-cast klutzing. (Honestly, my last backlash was fishing with Mark - ablecane). I give some credit there to upgrading all my spool bearings.
If you expect to have a learning curve, go for small fluoro.
A typical capacity for a BFS reel is 45 m of 0.23 mm diameter - that's 8-lb fluoro, and 4-lb at 0.17 mm will double the spool capacity.
You don't want to load more line than you need to fish on the shallow spools - mass is inertia, and all the inertia you can take out of the system lightens your lures and increases your cast distance.

Set-up.
You want the spool to have no tension, and adjust the spindle end cap just to the point of eliminating spool side play (with cast button depressed, disengaging pinion gear).
A good starting point is 50% of your mag brake. Take it down by single notches, and when you find the point of incipient mid-cast wind backlash, take one mag notch back.
From there, shouldn't have to change anything, unless you face the wind, or switch to a lighter, more wind-catching lure.


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Post 07 Jun 2021, 00:45 • #14 
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Joined: 01/10/06
Posts: 7811
Location: Holly Springs, NC
Bamboozle wrote:
I for one am fascinated and intrigued with the idea of fishing light with baitcasting equipment versus spinning gear as I really hate spinning reels but use them out of necessity when I throw light stuff, especially when bait fishing which I do when I want to relax. ;)...

...To be honest, I'll be all over it if I can ditch the spinning rod for that kind of fishing!!

Like anime, BFS (Bait Finesse System) developed in Japan but has been adopted by an enthusiastic (cult like?) American following. ;) It's fun. The http://www.finesse-fishing.com web site that Ron recommended above is a good place to start. Also, do a web search for the Daiwa Pixy reel. The Pixy is no longer available new, but it will lead you to interesting discussions and tackle reviews.

If you decide modifying reels looks like fun (and it is), don't use a Phillips head screwdriver on your Japanese sourced reel. Acquire a set of small JIS screwdrivers (for instance, this US made set from Moody Tools). Even the small Phillips screwdriver will slip on Japanese cross-head screws. Been there, had to buy replacement parts... :o

Might be good to start a new thread in the Another Spin on Glass forum. There are some past BFS posts there also (in particular this post).


Tom


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Post 07 Jun 2021, 04:48 • #15 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/05/06
Posts: 2086
Location: US-PA
Time to do some homework on off the shelf reels as I use my existing casting reels for LMB and wouldn't want to tweak them and I'm always using at least one of them when I am bait fishing for panfish.

Thanks guys for the encouragement!!


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Post 01 Aug 2021, 19:25 • #16 
Guide
Joined: 07/22/20
Posts: 175
Location: Ancient City, Florida
Wish I hadn’t read this ;) was just looking at the BFS Curado reviews this am…….


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