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vince cummings FL-170
Post 30 Jan 2013, 18:25 • #1 
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Joined: 02/11/12
Posts: 716
Location: New Hampshire
Does it look right to you guys? I will post a few more pictures later tonight.

ImageImageImageImageImage


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Post 30 Jan 2013, 21:37 • #2 
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Joined: 09/18/09
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Location: Relocated to the Drought Stricken West.
It certainly is pretty.


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Post 31 Jan 2013, 08:45 • #3 
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Joined: 02/11/12
Posts: 716
Location: New Hampshire
Russ,

I do not want to misrepresent anything. I bought it used at the Yellow Breeches
fly shop in Boiling Springs PA. The rod was in their previously owned area. I
recognized the Cummings signature and it was identical to the only other
Cummings I ever saw, and the price was right. The FL lettering also looked
correct. My guess is that it may have been an early Fenwick blank that Vince
used for the build after he worked his magic. The rod is rated a 5/6. I
inquired about a tube and bag, but the owners indicated the rod was given to
them to consign w/o those items. I have not fished the rod and have only lawn
cast it. My impression is more of a 4/5 than the rated 5/6. I fish mostly
bamboo and am knowledgeable in that area, but I have never collected glass or
fished it since the very early Fenwick's. I had Tom Maxwell examine the rod when
he and Tom Dorsey lived in Shippensburg and Chambersburg before they bought out
the Sewell Dunton Works and moved to Mass., so I am sure the rod is legitimate
in every sense.

Above is part of an email from the seller. He offered to send me the rod with a deposit. He also gave me a few days to inspect. I will even try to cast it later today but may have to wait til morning because of rain.

The only things I know about the Cummings rods are what I have read here. I have searched for other rods like it and have not seen any at all with the black slide bands. The rod arrived yesterday and could not even wait to post some pictures for you guys to see.


He also went on to say that he has had it in a gun safe for about 30 years. Also that he purchased the rod in the early eighties.


Last edited by myfly on 31 Jan 2013, 14:18, edited 1 time in total.

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Post 31 Jan 2013, 09:40 • #4 
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Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
all looks right to me

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Post 31 Jan 2013, 14:56 • #5 
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Joined: 02/11/12
Posts: 716
Location: New Hampshire
ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage

I was able to take a few more pictures today outside.


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Post 31 Jan 2013, 15:06 • #6 
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Joined: 02/11/12
Posts: 716
Location: New Hampshire
bulldog1935 wrote:
all looks right to me

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I love the color. I also love the name. bulldog would yours be a blank Vince made? What are your thoughts on mine?

No name on mine.


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Post 01 Feb 2013, 18:10 • #7 
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Joined: 02/11/12
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Location: New Hampshire
do you guys think this could be an older fenwick blank? Is it a blank Vince Cummings made?


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Post 02 Feb 2013, 13:25 • #8 
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Joined: 02/01/12
Posts: 900
Location: Upstate NY
According to the Victor Johnson book I have, V. Cummings had his blanks made by St Croix on his own mandrel designs. To be totally sure of who made the blank, you would need to find someone that knew him personally, Ron Kusse, a bamboo guy that used to work for H. L. Leonard and is now off on his own may be able to help you. Pretty nifty find.


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Post 03 Feb 2013, 23:37 • #9 
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Joined: 02/11/12
Posts: 716
Location: New Hampshire
please when you have the time I would like to see any 7 Foot vince Cummings rods you may have. Thanks,

Russ/myfly :P


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Post 04 Feb 2013, 06:28 • #10 
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Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8920
Location: US-ME
If the rod is identical in every respect to another one, that's an indication it is "right." But if it is slightly different in hardware, grip shape, reel seat, that doesn't indicate much. It is probably still "right," because he customized on a whim--his or the customer's.


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Post 04 Feb 2013, 11:32 • #11 
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Joined: 04/26/06
Posts: 3837
Location: Northeast Of Heaven
Hello
This is a interesting topic we are often asked to verify pedigrees of less seen models or different rods made by individuals.

Basically we need to remember that every rod made by any custom rod maker is made one at a time or possibly in small batches as it's common to work on one or more rods of the same configuration simultaneously.

As a custom rod maker you are contracted by the customer to build them a custom rod sometimes the customer will simply request for example a 7'6" rod built on your recommended blank or propriety blank made in the same style as the majority of the rods you build.

Other times a customer has specific requirements in some cases they already have the blank or know of a blank that they want you to build on, in other words they provide the canvas and the subject you just paint the picture in your style and sign your name.

That could be the case here because the open spiral signature wrap, the wrap design in general and the scripted vince Cummings signature all look spot on.

Another scenario that could be attributed to the difficulties of positive bank identification is the fact that often custom rod builders are given or purchase sample lots or have prototype blanks hanging around the shop, they build them up as sample rods or one off rods that are eventually sold or in some cases donated to worthy causes for example raffled off at fishing club banquets, meetings, etc.

A few years back I had a reportedly russ peak custom rod come in the shop for repair it was one of the most interesting little small stream rods I had ever seen, however other than the back story that it was a peak there was nothing that would legitimize the providence of the little rod, other than the exceptional workmanship that went into the build.
Do I believe the rod was a peak? yes! would a swear on a bible it was a peak? no!
Image
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These are the pictures of the rod when you look at the picture of the rod's 4 sections notice the different color yellow tip section that's the original tip that was made for the rod, I actually had to sacrifice a blank to make the repair, I used a wright and mcgill blank I had purchased from ricks, the tip on the top of the picture was one that I made for the rod from that blank as a second back up tip for the customer.

Take a look at this topic viewtopic.php?f=3&t=41509 it certainly leaves us with an understanding that not all vince Cummings rods were alike.

I would say with about a 98. 9% level of confidence that your fl-170 is a Cummings rod!
One thing that does jump out at me is the reel seat however the cork has been either recently replaced or reworked that much is as very evident because the color and quality don't jive with the grip.

I hope I have been some help enjoy the rod it certainly looks to be a fisher I hope it brings countless fish to hand.

Tight lines and 98. 9% loops
Andy M


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Post 04 Feb 2013, 19:25 • #12 
Master Guide
Joined: 02/11/12
Posts: 716
Location: New Hampshire
Hello Andy,

thanks for taking a look and giving me your honest opinion. Wish I could shake your hand! When the Cummings rod arrived I was pretty excited to get it in my hands. The first thing I noticed upon taking it from the rod tube was the reel seat. It jumped out at me also. I posted pictures here on the forum to get help from you guys. I had a few days to decide (longer if needed) as the seller said it was ok to post here on the forum so everybody could take a look at it. Why would someone replace the reel seat? The rest of the rod is in GREAT shape! Personally I love the reel seat even if it is new or reworked.

After a couple of days I was able to cast it for a bit. That was it for me. Soo happy to have it and look forward to fishing it this coming Spring!


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Post 23 Feb 2013, 07:58 • #13 
Sport
Joined: 07/30/12
Posts: 32
Location: US-NC
I have (3) posts on my search and restoration of a VC rod on this page ... Trouter 3 was the most knowledgeable on this forum. He was a personal friend of Vince's ... good luck in your search! Chip


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Post 11 Jun 2013, 08:31 • #14 
Sport
Joined: 12/27/11
Posts: 26
Location: US-NJ
I have to differ with the posters conclusion as to the percentage he guesses
The rod to be authentic. .. The blank maybe. . But looking at the signature I have my doubts. .. The reel seat and rings have been replaced, that is NOT a production
Reel seat from him. .I've seen counterfeit rods, this one signature looks to be copied. . As the poster also stated. . Do I believe the rod is infact his. .no..would I swear on a stack of bibles no. .. I own enough of his rods and have seen enough to base this opinion on ... I looked as closely as possible utilizing an Internet photo, blowing it up with my iPad to get a better look at the rod and this what I have based this opinion on. ..on a scale of 1-10 one being the worst scenario, this is a 4. ...
Paul

Why someone would take a fine crafted rod and destroy its value by changing its
Components is beyond me. ... unless it was unusable. ..the blank is even with
The replacement it's still a fine fly fishing tool. .. But the rod is no longer his. .. These vintage rods made by the craftsman of days gone by should be cherished and treated with utmost tender loving care for the builders are gone forever and that's all we have left to remind us of these innovative talented people, please there is
No need to make modifications on them. Leave them like a fine painting or wine for future generations to appreciate. .


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Post 11 Jun 2013, 16:19 • #15 
Master Guide
Joined: 02/11/12
Posts: 716
Location: New Hampshire
I think I'm glad I emailed you last night? Just wish you saw my post a couple months back. I have sent you my phone number in an email.

Look forward to hearing back from you,

Russ


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Post 12 Apr 2021, 08:59 • #16 
New Member
Joined: 03/23/21
Posts: 2
Hi,
I am new to this forum however my FL-170 is different to the one shown here especially at the base.
Thank you,

Enrico







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Post 13 Apr 2021, 09:05 • #17 
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Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8920
Location: US-ME
B...75, thanks for posting nice pics of your rod. As explained above, these are usually one-of custom rods with many variations of hardware and grip, as well as blank and modifications to the source blank. Not sure if you are asking about authenticity of yours or adding one more to the mix. Either way, it would be fun to find out what you know about the rod's history and origin.


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Post 13 Apr 2021, 09:57 • #18 
New Member
Joined: 03/23/21
Posts: 2
Hi Whrlpool, thank you for taking the time to answer.
Unfortunately I do not know much of the story of this rod since I bought it a while ago from a younger guy that inherited from his uncle along with other old fishing rods (Fenwick FF112 & True Temper 1755) and many old reels (Pflueger Medalist 1492 & 2 Feurer Bros Gemini 470 & 475, and others).
I live in Westchester and I started being curious about the local rod makers and how custom rods works in the past... and here I am.

I posted the photos not much to see if this could be an authentic Cummings rod, but to understand how 2 rods with the same models can be so different... from the reel seat, the brass connecting inserts, the signature (mine does not have the Vince name on it... just Cummings)... and to understand a little better the world of custom made rods in the past.
Again, thank you for your time. Enrico


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