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Post 19 Mar 2023, 15:53 • #1 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/31/15
Posts: 1238
Location: Northern Rockies
I'm curious if there is any consensus on alternatives to varnish that are clear. I'm not interested in epoxy. I can go that route if necessary.

Instead, I am looking for something that lacks the amber hue of varnish but with similar(ish) properties that allow it to be applied in the same way, more or less. I've developed a set of procedures that work well for me with varnish, and I prefer the look I can get on the wraps with it. But I have a project whose thread colors don't look nearly as good with the added yellow.

Thanks in advance.


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Post 19 Mar 2023, 16:45 • #2 
Administrator
Joined: 01/10/06
Posts: 7811
Location: Holly Springs, NC
The first product that comes to mind is PermaGloss. I have not used it, so I don't have any recommendations for application or cleanup.

You might try Minwax PolyCrylic, a water based product that dries to a clear finish. I've seen it recommended as a color preservative for use under spar varnish. There's no reason it wouldn't work as a main finish. I suspect it will take many applications before the finish builds to a smooth level coating.


Tom


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Post 19 Mar 2023, 16:51 • #3 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8920
Location: US-ME
Since I like earthtones, the slight amber of spar varnish is just enhancing. Having said that, I've used urethane exteriior varnishes on quicky repairs and knockabout rods. I found them to be sparkling clear to my eye, so one of those might be worth a try.


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Post 19 Mar 2023, 18:03 • #4 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 09/18/09
Posts: 5561
Location: Relocated to the Drought Stricken West.
Permagloss is nasty stuff, and it doesn't have a very long shelf life.

It does go on thinner than most epoxy.

I much prefer epoxy. I use polycrylic a few places, and I think I tried it as a thread finish at one time or another, because I have this feeling that it doesn't hold up because once you get enough coats on for protection, you loose flexibility. But I don't remember the rod which had problems, or if I am imagining things.

Polycrylic is easy to work with.


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Post 19 Mar 2023, 22:14 • #5 
Master Guide
Joined: 09/26/10
Posts: 547
Location: Montana
Another option would be water based varnishes. They will however act much like a color preserver and sit on top of the thread and lock air in. Just like the poly acrylic. Another downside is that they can become milky looking after long exposure to water. I understand that it is purely cosmetic as they will return to clear after drying out. The water based stuff acts a bit differently when applied so it might be wise to do a couple of test wraps. Some of the brands do add a yellow dye (?) to make it look like the oil based stuff so I would stay away from the those. If you lived closer to Bozeman, you could borrow some different brands I have on hand to experiment with.

Another option would be a poly as they don’t tend to get as amber as a spar. They don’t have UV protection, but I have some rods that had poly on them and they are still going strong after 30 years.


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Post 20 Mar 2023, 15:47 • #6 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/31/15
Posts: 1238
Location: Northern Rockies
Thanks for the help. I will look into these. For only one rod, it may be worth it to go back to epoxy or change the thread color to something more compatible with varnish.


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Post 20 Mar 2023, 15:56 • #7 
Guide
Joined: 08/19/16
Posts: 314
Location: Brazil
I think it would be worthwhile looking into polyurethane varnishes of the type that are used for finishing hardwood floors.


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Post 21 Mar 2023, 06:03 • #8 
Guide
Joined: 06/08/18
Posts: 293
Location: Boston , MA
Somewhere I heard something about this finish called CPXtra , haven’t used it myself let alone heard of anyone else using it , so no experience there , but reading up on it sounds along the lines of what you’re trying to achieve , might be worth a gamble on a knock-about ?


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Post 21 Mar 2023, 08:31 • #9 
Sport
Joined: 03/28/21
Posts: 70
Glacier,
Just started testing a product from Total Boat called Halcyon Clear (pint in a pourable soft pack was $22 delivered) a clear coat varnish that is water based. Little to no odor and dries in one hour for recoating. My first test was very positive with four or five coats and it dries clear and hard. It's being used in place of traditional spar varnish for brightwork on boats successfully and gets high marks in the reviews I've read. I am about to coat a rod with it in the next week or so.
Chris


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Post 22 Mar 2023, 19:24 • #10 
Master Guide
Joined: 09/26/10
Posts: 547
Location: Montana
CSM, would you mind sharing what you think after you finish the rod and fish it a little while. I would be really interested on what you thought and how it held up. We experimented with some of the total boat water based products for certain applications. They were a little more finicky for us to use and did not dry as hard as the Helmsman water based varnishes. I do however really like the Total Boat Gleam 2.0 oil based varnish - dries fast, does not need to be sanded between coats, and it levels better than any spar I have used. It is not a good oil based varnish to use if you are wanting clear wraps as it dries too fast and traps the air in the wrap.


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Post 22 Mar 2023, 19:33 • #11 
Sport
Joined: 03/28/21
Posts: 70
Will do. I did talk to one of their Total Boat product experts about flexibility compared to epoxy and he responded that it was a little more flexible. I was worried about cracking under stress as my test wraps were not on a real rod. I also used the clear not the amber tinted version. To me it did feel like a harder finish than traditional spar varnish I have used on sailboat tillers. I also think it is as hard or harder than Pro-kote. Nothing scientific here but, your comments are making me a little nervous.
Chris


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Post 22 Mar 2023, 19:43 • #12 
Master Guide
Joined: 09/26/10
Posts: 547
Location: Montana
Chris, it may have been just us, so that’s why I asked. We could not get it to adhere well in the inscription area and it cracked as well in that area. We also wanted a matte finish and the satin or semi gloss (can’t remember) was just too matte. Don’t let me scare you, this may have been isolated to what we were doing.


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Post 23 Mar 2023, 19:28 • #13 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/31/15
Posts: 1238
Location: Northern Rockies
Thanks for the tips. I saw on the other post here that mentions Halcyon Clear that it has a slight amber tint to it. But it looks like there are two versions, so maybe they used the slightly tinted one?

If it really is clear, I think the Halcyon is worth a shot. If it doesn’t work out, I’m sure I can find a project around the house that would benefit.


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Post 23 Mar 2023, 21:07 • #14 
Sport
Joined: 03/28/21
Posts: 70
Glacier,
Around the house I used it on the stairway banisters and it worked well. Not a great test indoors but, I can testify it is clear and looked good.
Chris


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Post 23 Mar 2023, 21:12 • #15 
Master Guide
Joined: 09/26/10
Posts: 547
Location: Montana
If you guys end up using it on a few rods, would love to hear how it works out for you.. it seems the Total Boat products in general are pretty high quality stuff.


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Post 24 Mar 2023, 16:53 • #16 
Sport
Joined: 05/14/15
Posts: 96
Location: Little Rock, Ar
Assuming you've already experimented with spar urethane but if not these two rods were finished with around 6 coats of water based and no tint whatsoever. I did color lock with 3 coats or so of Al's beforehand, but if no color preserver is used you can get that semi transparent look with the guides with it. It will not produce a clear wrap though as the spar urethane itself acts as a color preserver to some degree.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=74170


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Post 24 Mar 2023, 17:22 • #17 
Sport
Joined: 03/28/21
Posts: 70
MT,
The two rods look great. Would you mind sharing what product you used on the rods?
Thanks
Chris


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Post 24 Mar 2023, 17:39 • #18 
Sport
Joined: 05/14/15
Posts: 96
Location: Little Rock, Ar
csmielke wrote:
MT,
The two rods look great. Would you mind sharing what product you used on the rods?
Thanks
Chris


Thank you ! As a color preserver I used Al's color rite and finished with Minwax water based Helmsman spar urethane in clear gloss. I use an 18 RPM finishing motor during application/drying and have found this stuff is so low build it usually take 5-6 coats before I'm satisfied.


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Post 24 Mar 2023, 18:09 • #19 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/31/15
Posts: 1238
Location: Northern Rockies
I agree. The rods do look great. I remember when you posted them.

Do you find the water-based version has less of the amber hue? I typically use the standard Helmsman for my wraps. It works really well for me.


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Post 24 Mar 2023, 18:40 • #20 
Sport
Joined: 05/14/15
Posts: 96
Location: Little Rock, Ar
GlacierRambler wrote:
I agree. The rods do look great. I remember when you posted them.

Do you find the water-based version has less of the amber hue? I typically use the standard Helmsman for my wraps. It works really well for me.


Thanks. To be honest I've found absolutely no amber hue or tint whatsoever with the water based mentioned above. Absolutely nothing ! I've taken a break from all of this for a while but recently have done some test wraps on a clear NFC I've yet to build ( starting to kick around ideas ) and no tint noted against the raw glass there either. Initially I really liked using a thinned oil based spar varnish and went on a hunt to find something non tinted and tried several brands but had no luck. Give it a try if you have not already. Cheap and just as easy if not easier to use than an oil based spar. Dries very quickly as well. Just keep in mind it will act as a color lock to some degree so test wraps as usual.........And plan for maybe a few more coats than you are accustomed to.


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Post 26 Mar 2023, 15:52 • #21 
Sport
Joined: 03/28/21
Posts: 70
I tried three coats of Total Boat Halcyon Clear Gloss over the Ben's of Holland logo yesterday. Everything seemed to go well and it's hard to tell the coating was put on. Next question is do I try the wraps?
Chris


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Post 28 Mar 2023, 08:14 • #22 
Master Guide
Joined: 09/26/10
Posts: 547
Location: Montana
Give it a shot.


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Post 28 Mar 2023, 10:41 • #23 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 07/11/14
Posts: 1784
Location: urban Colorado
the Halcyon Clear seems almost too good to be true.. thanks for the mention, I plan to try it on a cane rod refinish..


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Post 29 Mar 2023, 22:36 • #24 
Sport
Joined: 11/12/17
Posts: 59
Location: US-CO
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=70915

Hi guys,
I’ve been using Halcyon Clear for a few years and it’s seems to be durable so far. The above rod has landed some nice fish and is holding up so far. I will say that the Clear version does have slight tint…it’s not clear like Permagloss.


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Post 31 Mar 2023, 16:07 • #25 
Master Guide
Joined: 12/19/07
Posts: 393
Location: US-MI
I saw this on a woodworking site I follow. No connection to the company and I haven’t tried it but I am curious.
https://thecrystalacstore.com/collectio ... uv-topcoat


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