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Threadmaster Epoxy Tips
Post 01 Jul 2022, 14:33 • #1 
Master Guide
Joined: 02/02/16
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Location: Georgia
My thread wraps on my first rod build are almost complete, and I’m preparing to finish my wraps with Threadmaster epoxy. I’m using gray silk thread with no color preserver, and I’m planning to rotate the rod by hand without a drying motor.

How many coats do you generally apply? And is it possible to remove the epoxy with a solvent if the finish is wonky? Any other advice for my first time applying epoxy to wraps?


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Post 01 Jul 2022, 15:06 • #2 
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Get a beat up fishing rod, or other rod shaped, non-absorbent material (not wood dowels). Do some test wraps. Then practice, practice, practice until the finish comes out the way you want. Don't expect to get everything correct the first time.

Forum search is your friend. There have been many past discussions on this subject.


Tom


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Post 01 Jul 2022, 15:08 • #3 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/12/07
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Location: western Massachusetts
They recommend two coats and that has been my experience. Do not load it on. Rotating by hand is doing it the hard way, I usually rotate the work while I am applying threadmaster, and let it turn for three hours. Pay attention to the temperature and relative humidity suggestions.

You can remove the finish before it kicks with DNA, but it is a mess. Better to do test wraps ahead of time because once it is on there, it is on there! Tom is steering you right.


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Post 01 Jul 2022, 16:32 • #4 
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You don't mention whether the epoxy is the regular or lite version. In either case, two coats. The lite will end up thinner and flatter than if you use the regular viscosity. First coat very thin whether you use regular or lite. Don't attempt to correct any problems by removing epoxy with DNA or any other solvent - just put another coat on. Rotating the rod by hand is fine - it will turn out just as good as with a turning motor. Rotate more frequently to begin with and then less often as the epoxy sets up.


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Post 01 Jul 2022, 18:01 • #5 
Sport
Joined: 07/04/21
Posts: 32
Location: Victoria, Australia
My suggestion
If you HAVE to rotate by hand, please don’t use epoxy. It will take > 6 hours @ 25 Celsius of turning before the epoxy hardens sufficiently to not sag. By that time your arms will have gone into paralysis!

Alternatively, use marine spar varnish like Kenney and others do ( can dry by hand)

Or buy a rod drier/ turner to use epoxy, the lite version imo is best for thin coats, just cover the threads , one coat .

One last thing, apply the epoxy via a spatula, (not a brush) and just do one rod section at a time while you get the hang on it


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Post 01 Jul 2022, 19:03 • #6 
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"If you HAVE to rotate by hand, please don’t use epoxy. It will take > 6 hours @ 25 Celsius of turning before the epoxy hardens sufficiently to not sag. By that time your arms will have gone into paralysis!"

Not true. It's only necessary to turn 180 degrees (guides up, then guides down) every few minutes to begin with but then gradually lengthen the time after 20 minutes or so. By one hour, do it every 5 minutes, by two hours every 15 minutes. After that even less often - just observe the sag and rotate accordingly. Use the timer on your phone or a kitchen timer. With TM, no need to rotate past a few hours. After 7 hours, carefully trim off any bumps or fuzzies with a sharp exacto blade or a double edge razor blade then apply second coat. Don't touch with your fingers between coats. The results doing manual flipping like this are every bit as good as using a motor but just require your personal attention for a few hours.


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Post 01 Jul 2022, 19:30 • #7 
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It is my preferred epoxy, but let me warn you it stinks—-literally. They say to apply in a well ventilated area, but even so the odor is strong and lingers. You may adapt, others may not.


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Post 01 Jul 2022, 19:37 • #8 
Master Guide
Joined: 02/02/16
Posts: 515
Location: Georgia
Thanks for all the advice! I’ll be sure to do more research in archived posts for additional info. I’m using regular Threadmaster (not TM lite). I should also add that the primary reason I’m using epoxy instead of spar is the build is on a white/natural color Trout Smiths blank, and I want to avoid the yellowish tint of spar.


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Post 01 Jul 2022, 20:47 • #9 
Master Guide
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Seth, all I use is regular thread master. If you heat it up in a cup of hot water for several minutes before you mix it it will help thin it out and reduce the number of air bubbles. When you apply it use small amounts just enough to saturate the wraps. Put the brush on the wrap and slowly rotate the blank this allows nice even coverage and reduces air bubbles. After about 1.5 hours the finish is set up enough it will not sag and in 3-4 hours it’s dry to the touch. Once it’s completely mixed you’ll have 30 minutes to coat the wraps before it comes thick and difficult to apply. I’ve tried all the finishes out there and thread master is the best. It’s easy to work with, levels great, releases air bubbles really well, has great clarity and is very durable. Just go slow and take your time and you’ll get a nice finish. One more note if you have long ferrule wraps and in the area of the inscription brush the finish on length wise not in ovals. The length wise brush strokes produces a nice smooth lumpy free finish. Those two GTX rods you have were done with above methods and I think you’ll agree the wrap finish on those rods is very nice


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Post 01 Jul 2022, 22:05 • #10 
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I agree with Tiptop above, it will set up fine. I read a book, watch TV, something, and reach over every now and then and turn pieces 180 degrees. I find a clothes pin on the blank helps keep it from rotating on its own.
Do you have a cardboard box--with notches cut into it-- or something to support the pieces while they are drying/turning??


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Post 01 Jul 2022, 22:10 • #11 
Sport
Joined: 07/04/21
Posts: 32
Location: Victoria, Australia
At the end of the day, people can make their own mind up (and that's fine), but I believe a rod drier is indispensable, and by far the best choice for epoxy.
Without constantly paying attention and rotated, the coating will sag; epoxy has different viscosity characteristics to something that can be rotated - spar varnish

Being present for this time, 6-7 hours of exposure & inhalation of the toxic organic amine component is a not good choice either, and a fast track to some nasty sensitisation issues (check out the product SDS). Dave Lewis moved to spar varnish because of this.

I would also worry about the ambient temperature control, this will affect curing time in a significant way. The cooler the curing temperature, the slower the setting time, to a point where it wont set at all. The growing oligomers are quite large & need energy (heat) to join head to tail (like leggo blocks).
And be super careful about following the manufacturers recommendation regarding quantity of each component.
(never change ratios of the epoxy components - epoxide and amine to change cure time, will end up with too hard or a soft uncured coating).

Cheers, Gerard


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Post 02 Jul 2022, 05:36 • #12 
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The manufacturer's site is your best source. With any finish, just remember two points: (1) spread, don't brush (2) it is easy to put on too much; it is hard to put on too little.


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Post 02 Jul 2022, 07:13 • #13 
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Just to be clear, when you flip the rod section 180 degrees, leave it guides up until it's time for the next flip and then put it guides down until the next flip.

For me, the most important function of a turning motor isn't after the epoxy is applied - it's for the quick and even application of the epoxy to the wraps. This speeds up the process and allows you to complete all the sections within the time window you have before the epoxy sets up too much.
For your first rod or two it's not a bad idea to work on half the rod and then mix new epoxy for the other half so you don't have to rush as much. Turning motors are cheap on ebay and it's easy to build mounting stands for them out of scrap wood. I use three homemade turning setups at the same time so rod sections with epoxy applied can turn while I'm working on another section.


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Post 02 Jul 2022, 08:20 • #14 
Master Guide
Joined: 02/02/16
Posts: 515
Location: Georgia
Thanks, guys! Lanny, the GTX 5wt you built is sitting on my rod building table as a template while I work on my build. Your finish work is impeccable.

Tiptop, interesting point that the rod turner is most useful for applying epoxy. You guys are making me reconsider my decision to avoid buying a turning motor. What RPM motor would you recommend for epoxy?


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Post 02 Jul 2022, 08:55 • #15 
Guide
Joined: 11/23/17
Posts: 314
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA
Lots of sound advice above, but your outcome will not depend on whether you make one, two, three or four applications. Or regular or lite thread epoxy. The quality of your first rod efforts will be dependent upon whether you’ve developed a technique that works well for you. That may mean wrapping and epoxy finishing numerous guides and other flat wraps on a spare rod section before applying finish to your first rod. The quality and appearance of your first rod build is in your hands.


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Post 02 Jul 2022, 11:05 • #16 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/10/09
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"What RPM motor would you recommend for epoxy?"

I suspect that builders vary a lot in their speed preference. Personally, I like 6-8 RPM both for applying epoxy and for curing it. For curing, going slower would be fine but there really isn't any need to go faster. For applying I remember reading that some like to go twice as fast (15-20 RPM) but that seems awfully fast to me.


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Post 02 Jul 2022, 11:59 • #17 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/12/07
Posts: 1292
Location: western Massachusetts
When it comes to rod turner speeds there is a lot of personal preference involved. There used to be only 2 speeds, 9 and 18. Then they came out with adjustable speed DC motors. The slower speeds like 4 or 6 RPM work fine for drying or coating under wraps, but if you are going to apply epoxy with them, I found the 18 RPM worked best for me. Then, I visited a rod manufacturer and they used much higher speed to apply their finish. I think it was like 100-300 RPM, but my memory is sketchy. It was really fast, so it is all personal preference. You have to find out for yourself, and that is the fun of it all.


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Post 03 Jul 2022, 00:43 • #18 
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Joined: 09/18/09
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Location: Relocated to the Drought Stricken West.
A rod drying motor is the first piece of rod building equipment I would buy (other than the rat-tail files for reaming and a sharpening stone or dremmel for prepping the guides). I hold the rod in my hands as I wrap and there are a lot of makeshift solutions for tensioning a spool of thread.

Go back and read as much about applying epoxy as you can and try to absorb it. It is the most infuriating thing.ad

as far as advice:
  • don't thin the epoxy
  • mix small batches. I use cheap syringes and 1cc of each part
  • don't try to do to many guides at once
  • heat the bottles ahead of time, not too hot, but soak in hot water
  • put it on at a reasonable spead and then stop mucking with it and let it dry
  • don't let your thread get conaminated with a lot of finger oil and especially not silicone
  • don't put on too much
  • when you figure out what works, stick with it


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Post 03 Jul 2022, 12:31 • #19 
Master Guide
Joined: 02/04/12
Posts: 705
Location: SE Pa
Quote:
A rod drying motor is the first piece of rod building equipment I would buy (other than the rat-tail files for reaming and a sharpening stone or dremmel for prepping the guides). I hold the rod in my hands as I wrap and there are a lot of makeshift solutions for tensioning a spool of thread.
+1.
If you want, you can even inexpensively buy the 2 parts ( a - electric turner at butt end and b - bracket with cradle wheels at the other) as a kit and mount them on a board using the appropriate separation distance for each particular blank you build.


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Post 04 Jul 2022, 08:43 • #20 
Master Guide
Joined: 02/02/16
Posts: 515
Location: Georgia
Thanks again everyone. I ordered a 6 RPM rod turning motor and jig on eBay. Hopefully I can start doing some practice runs with the rod turner next weekend. I’ll be sure to post pictures of my finished rod when it’s finally done.


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