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Post 01 Mar 2022, 18:40 • #1 
Sport
Joined: 12/30/16
Posts: 43
Location: US-SF
After building a number of rods with sliding bands and wood inserts, I've noticed that some reels won't fit them, ie. the bands won't slide over the feet more than barely an 1/8th" or so. Ross Colorados are fine, as well as the slimmer feet offered by Galvin for their reels (great customer service and support) and I believe I had a thinner replacement foot from Abel for their TR1 as well so it seems like some of the manufacturers are aware of the issue.

Called Waterworks if they offered a thinner foot which they didn't, and said they build theirs according to the "industry standards and spec", which I believe most manufactures do. I don't know what all aspects of those specs cover; they sit upon the mortised seat just fine though it's their steep taper on the other side of the foot that prevents the rings from sliding over them enough to create a secure fit.

I like the seats I use and believe they're made with bamboo builders in mind (are they using different reels than fiberglass and graphite rods?). They've been kind enough to offer customizing the mortise to fit a specific reel foot, but given this is occurring with all my seats when trying to fit other reels, I'm wondering if there's something I'm missing and overlooking. One solutions was to grind/file down the outside foot ramp on a cheap Orvis Battenkill which worked well, not pretty, but worked, though I hesitate taking a file to a Hardy or other high-value reel.

Wondering if anyone else has come across this and what their solutions were....., besides using another reel seat provider.


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Post 01 Mar 2022, 19:08 • #2 
Administrator
Joined: 01/10/06
Posts: 7811
Location: Holly Springs, NC
Waterworks stated they follow industry standards. The standard is maintained by the American Fly Fishing Trade Association (affta.org). The standards for reel foot dimensions (and the often violated fly line standards) can be found at affta.org/page/IndustryStandards. Near as I can tell, most modern reel companies come close to the industry standard.


Tom


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Post 01 Mar 2022, 20:55 • #3 
Master Guide
Joined: 09/26/10
Posts: 547
Location: Montana
Of the newer reels, I believe that the Lamson and Hardy’s are among the best. The Gen 3 Hatch Fanatic is also better. I did not really think about the difference until I bought my first large arbor reel 3 or 4 years ago. Up until that time, I had been using old Hardy’s and CFOs. I coincidentally sent that large arbor reel (a Sage Spectrum LT) to Bill Archaleta to machine down the foot to better fit some of my old rods.

Tom, I think there might be a range of acceptably within the standard as many reels still fit differently. I have posted some pictures below that folks might might interesting. Of the reels below, the Orvis reels have the tightest fit. While they fit on the seat below, they don’t fit on other seats I have.

Lamson Speedster


Current Hardy Perfect


Old 70s Hardy Perfect


Sage Spectrum LT


Old Hatch Fanatic gen 1


Old Hatch Fanatic gen 2


Current Hatch Fanatic gen 3


Mirage LT


Current Battenkill Disc


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Post 01 Mar 2022, 21:10 • #4 
Sport
Joined: 12/30/16
Posts: 43
Location: US-SF
Yeah, your Battenkill looks like what I'm struggling with, though I've even less purchase on the foot.


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Post 02 Mar 2022, 02:38 • #5 
Administrator
Joined: 01/10/06
Posts: 7811
Location: Holly Springs, NC
The reel foot standard states a tolerance for each dimension (see the drawing below, as found at the AFFTA web site). Still, those tolerances are small values. For comparison, a sheet of common writing paper is 0.003" thick.

Please understand, I mean this in the nicest way I can. The reelseat you show is beautifully made. The wood insert is stunning. The metal work is exquisite. The design is functionally poor. I realize this is a traditional design made by many respected manufacturers. How often have we seen recommendations to put moleskin under the reel foot, or loop an O-ring/rubber band over the reel foot, all to keep the reel on the rod?

With the traditional wood insert slide band seat, the reel foot is pinched between an untapered, rigid ring and polished wood. The ring is canted and only touches the wood along one edge - an extremely narrow contact surface. Neither the wood insert or the slide ring have any give. The reel is poised to pop off the rod at the most inconvenient moment.

The traditional Hardy design (photos below) is a well designed slide band seat. The sliding ring is tapered and fits flush against both the reelseat and the reel foot. The ring is thin enough to be flexible, but wide enough to provide long contact surfaces. The ring and reel foot are held against a flexible cork surface, not hard polished wood. The result is a reelseat that holds better than duct tape. Put the reel foot in the reelseat pocket, slide the ring over the other end, pinch the ring and snug it up the reel foot. The reel won't come off until you take it off. The design would adapt to all of the reels you show without issue. It's not eye catching pretty, but the design is beautifully functional.


Tom





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Post 02 Mar 2022, 11:20 • #6 
Master Guide
Joined: 09/26/10
Posts: 547
Location: Montana
Hi Tom, don’t get me wrong. I love cork. There was a time when I was like cork, cork, it’s gota be cork. I will say that I also like to varnish it at times as it really adds some beauty. But, in doing so it does diminish some of the properties you mentioned. We thought long and hard about using cork grips on our rods but in the end elected not too. We have just seen too many people tear them up.

I am guessing the seat below will really get under your skin haha :)



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Post 02 Mar 2022, 13:46 • #7 
Sport
Joined: 12/30/16
Posts: 43
Location: US-SF
WHAT...... is that material?


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Post 02 Mar 2022, 15:55 • #8 
Master Guide
Joined: 09/26/10
Posts: 547
Location: Montana
Mrk, the seat is curly mango with a cork and acorn button.


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Post 02 Mar 2022, 18:08 • #9 
Sport
Joined: 12/30/16
Posts: 43
Location: US-SF
Love it


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Post 03 Mar 2022, 00:55 • #10 
Administrator
Joined: 01/10/06
Posts: 7811
Location: Holly Springs, NC
ffftroutbum wrote:
We thought long and hard about using cork grips on our rods but in the end elected not too. We have just seen too many people tear them up.

A bad sliding ring on a cork insert makes a mess too. These photos are a short Phillipson rod with a cork insert reelseat and a narrow, untapered ring. With time the ring compressed the cork into an ugly notch. I reduced the compression by steaming the cork, but it didn't really fix the damage. Although with the damaged cork, the reel holds better.

ImageImage

ffftroutbum wrote:
I am guessing the seat below will really get under your skin haha :)

Nah. That reelseat is very pretty. To be honest, I've never seen curly mango before. The figure is extraordinary. Where did you find it? The acorn is a nice, quirky visual touch. The whole setup looks great. I would love an insert like that in a Payne style locking reelseat.

But you still have two, narrow, rigid rings, so put a roll of electrician's tape in your vest. Or, use longer, more flexible rings, like in the photo below. ;)


Tom



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Post 03 Mar 2022, 11:40 • #11 
Master Guide
Joined: 09/26/10
Posts: 547
Location: Montana
Tom, you are too funny :lol :lol That’s a bummer with the Phillipson.

Thanks for the kind words, Mrk


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Post 17 Mar 2022, 10:42 • #12 
Master Guide
Joined: 04/02/14
Posts: 537
Location: US- Northern CO
you can get a ring sizing mandrel for about $20 and increase the size of your ring easy.


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Post 18 Mar 2022, 06:25 • #13 
Guide
Joined: 06/08/18
Posts: 293
Location: Boston , MA
Was just talking with XNYkid about this very issue , similar seat to boot , and as have you folks , pretty much tried most of the same reels you all did with no different result , the drift pin like mandrel that a jeweler uses to size rings (at xnykid’s suggestion) , was just the ticket to remedy at least my particular issue , just need to be careful and take baby steps so as not to oversize , a little more difficult to reverse the procedure …


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Post 18 Mar 2022, 10:42 • #14 
Sport
Joined: 12/30/16
Posts: 43
Location: US-SF
I like that idea. My wood inserts are .660 and given the thinness of material between the mortise and inner diameter, there's not much more to take off without weakening the seat, though setting it up with epoxy to the blank, it may not really make any difference; slightly widening even one side of the sliding band with the mandrel would be a simple adjustment.


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Post 22 Mar 2022, 00:33 • #15 
Sport
Joined: 07/17/12
Posts: 92
Location: US-OK
Being one who puts function ahead of all else I have found a great discrepancy in reel foot and reel seat fits. I'm fine with gluing a strip of foam under reel foot if necessary and I will also throw a couple of strips of black electricians tape around the foot and seat if I feel it's liable to fall off at a bad time. Having had this happen I'm more concerned about keeping everything in place than how it might look to another.

Nick


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Post 26 Mar 2022, 20:54 • #16 
Sport
Joined: 08/04/18
Posts: 77
Location: US-CT
I've run across this same problem, ring mandrel sounds like a good solution but how are you able to insert the mandrel into the ring while it's still on the seat? Doesn't the seat/insert limit access? I would think that the ring would bind into the cork seat on the back side.

And do you just apply hand pressure to the ring and mandrel to get the desired result? Having a hard time visualizing this.

Thanks, Brian


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Post 27 Mar 2022, 04:16 • #17 
Guide
Joined: 01/25/13
Posts: 338
Location: Avondale Az
You fit before assembly.


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Post 27 Mar 2022, 16:41 • #18 
Sport
Joined: 08/04/18
Posts: 77
Location: US-CT
Makes sense, reading along with the posts above I was thinking there was a way to retrofit.

I got excited for nothing :lol


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Post 27 Mar 2022, 19:02 • #19 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 09/18/09
Posts: 5561
Location: Relocated to the Drought Stricken West.
I've been waiting for someone to post pictures of someone who has taken a grinder to their reel seat.


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Post 02 Mar 2023, 21:33 • #20 
Sport
Joined: 12/30/16
Posts: 43
Location: US-SF
This is frustrating, and at this point comical. After having trouble with reel seats from #1 supplier, they were too tight/small and most of my Ross reels and others barely fit as the sliding bands didn't go over the reel foot that much. Then I found supplier #2 which seemed to have solved that problem with bands that were a bit wider (there's a term for that but unsure what it is) on one side so it slides onto foot just fine. Problem solved for the most part.

After finally acquiring a Hardy Princess reel, circa 1980, I find these don't fit well on any of the seats besides locking ones as the foot is so much thinner than anything else I have. #1 tight seats are a bit loose to use with confidence, and #2 seats are beyond loose save for a roll of duct tape. I was hoping #1 would fit perfectly because they're made and used by many bamboo builders and kind of figured a Hardy would be a common reel for them. People point to reel seat "specs" but I don't think the specs cover every 3-D aspect of the reel seat, or at least they're not followed to a T as they vary between the Ross, Lamson, Orvis, Galvan, and Abel reels I have (and you're asking, why did add to that quiver? I sometimes wonder myself).

Guess a locking band is the way to go when unsure what reel is going to be used.


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Post 02 Mar 2023, 21:44 • #21 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/31/15
Posts: 1238
Location: Northern Rockies
Have you double-checked the diameter of your inserts? I'm assuming they were wood? I had a similar issue this fall with a couple of reel seats from a reputable manufacturer. After some frustration not getting a good fit with two or three models, I pulled out the calipers to find that the wood insert was a couple of hundredths of an inch too large. I was surprised how much sanding down to the appropriate size did for the fit of the reel seats.


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Post 02 Mar 2023, 21:49 • #22 
Sport
Joined: 12/30/16
Posts: 43
Location: US-SF
They are wood, though some are micarta. Sanding down would be a solution but not something I want to get into now that they're built, and they're not completely round but mitered (?) on one side where the foot goes onto. I have selected certain reels that will work with particular rods for now for lack of a better solution at this time.


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Post 03 Mar 2023, 19:38 • #23 
Master Guide
Joined: 08/03/14
Posts: 945
Location: central AR
Mrkjhn, a fix for your Princess is to use a strip of moleskin on the reel foot. It will snug up the fit nicely. I use it on a Hardy made Battenkill Mark III to fit the chosen rod.


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Post 03 Mar 2023, 21:02 • #24 
Sport
Joined: 12/30/16
Posts: 43
Location: US-SF
Brilliant!!!!


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Post 04 Mar 2023, 14:06 • #25 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 01/02/12
Posts: 1859
Location: Gig Harbor, WA
I have occasionally had that problem with some reels. Typically, I stick a strip of duct tape to the reel foot and that seems to work. As for reel seat material, I do prefer cork as it is more compressible and holds the foot better. I always seem to have exceptions though like the last rod I built. The aesthetics of the rod build “demanded” a wood seat. The intended reel needs a strip of duct tape of course.


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