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NFC Buyer Beware?
Post 15 Jun 2021, 14:51 • #1 
Sport
Joined: 04/20/20
Posts: 98
Location: Springfield, PA
Took receipt of an NFC Iconoglass blank today. A natural 764-4. I was surprised to find a bunch of debris peppered throughout the glass. The pic below shows some of the representative specks that I'm seeing throughout the blank.

I called NFC's customer service and requested a replacement. Honestly, the rep that returned my call was fantastic - we traded pix by text, she followed up immediately, checked the condition of other stock, etc. A pleasure to deal with and like I always try to keep in view in situations like this, the issue I was calling about was very likely not her fault.



What burns my butt is even after seeing the condition of the product they sent me first-hand and acknowledging it wasn't representative of their quality, they're still making me pay to ship it back before they send a replacement. Oh, and for those of you that have looked at NFC's blank costs before, that's after paying the $45 shipping fee in the first place.

The production manager's feedback to the rep was 'since the issue is cosmetic, they were unwilling to issue a call tag for the return shipping'.

That really surprised me.


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Re: NFC Buyer Beware?
Post 15 Jun 2021, 19:58 • #2 
Sport
Joined: 10/01/19
Posts: 85
Location: US-FL
This is a bummer. I now have one more reason to stay away from them.

I was on the fence about ordering some in the future but, at $75 flat shipping to Puerto Rico... replacing a broken blank won't be cheap.


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Re: NFC Buyer Beware?
Post 15 Jun 2021, 20:24 • #3 
Master Guide
Joined: 11/18/18
Posts: 356
Location: US-TX
It only takes a few of these public comments like this and they will rethink their position


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Re: NFC Buyer Beware?
Post 15 Jun 2021, 20:32 • #4 
Guide
Joined: 12/28/19
Posts: 129
I was thinking on one of these but not anymore ! I have a black cloud and the damn thing would show up striped !


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Re: NFC Buyer Beware?
Post 17 Jun 2021, 07:17 • #5 
Guide
Joined: 06/30/20
Posts: 251
I had a similar situation. I have an NFC 4wt cyan blank. In the second section up from the bottom, there are two long lines - look like slits or cuts in the blank. They are both an inch long and fairly close together. I emailed NFC and was told to flex the blank. If it doesn't break under load it is fine. Thats their words. Also, they said I could try to wrap over it. But where these are, there will not be a guide placed in that spot. and I would need 2-3 guides just to be long enough to cover the blemishes. Thats along with 2 dark spots of color, looks like the coloring they used for the blank, that are very noticeable in other spots. Not super happy with NFC's blank quality or their customer service response. Have a look at the pics:




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Re: NFC Buyer Beware?
Post 17 Jun 2021, 10:01 • #6 
Guide
Joined: 02/22/16
Posts: 307
Location: Livingston MT
jeffroey wrote:
What burns my butt is even after seeing the condition of the product they sent me first-hand and acknowledging it wasn't representative of their quality, they're still making me pay to ship it back before they send a replacement. Oh, and for those of you that have looked at NFC's blank costs before, that's after paying the $45 shipping fee in the first place.

The production manager's feedback to the rep was 'since the issue is cosmetic, they were unwilling to issue a call tag for the return shipping'.

That really surprised me.


45 bucks to ship it to you? that's at least a $25.00 clear profit on shipping! That's not smart business. And making you pay to ship it back to them? I wonder if the owner is aware of this policy. The adverse publicity alone makes the actions taken seem short sighted at best. Just look at the other complaints in this post to show what a poor decision was made by the company.

Tom


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Re: NFC Buyer Beware?
Post 17 Jun 2021, 10:35 • #7 
Master Guide
Joined: 06/27/11
Posts: 387
Location: US-OH
Agree with Tom 100 percent. In addition, both of the above blanks shouldn't have been sold as anything other than blem blanks.


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Re: NFC Buyer Beware?
Post 17 Jun 2021, 13:58 • #8 
Master Guide
Joined: 12/19/07
Posts: 393
Location: US-MI
Beside the fact that I’ve seen better quality control on cheap blanks made offshore those shipping charges are outrageous. Basically your two way shipping is almost 90% of what the blank cost.
I’ve shipped completed rods in two tubes across the country for under $20 with insurance.
Someones making a profit on shipping.


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Re: NFC Buyer Beware?
Post 17 Jun 2021, 20:14 • #9 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/11/05
Posts: 1008
Location: US-NY
Your post made me double-check the blank I just received from them. Same color as yours, but a 8-1/2' 8-wt. Everything looks OK, thank goodness.


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Re: NFC Buyer Beware?
Post 17 Jun 2021, 20:59 • #10 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/27/14
Posts: 1501
Location: ON, Canada
I’ve ordered from them once, a 9ft graphite 6wt - it took 3 months, and they never replied to any emails asking about the status of my order. Between that and the $75 flat rate to ship to Canada I’m pretty much done.


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Re: NFC Buyer Beware?
Post 17 Jun 2021, 21:18 • #11 
Guide
Joined: 12/28/19
Posts: 129
This is G Loomis new venture isnt it ?


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Re: NFC Buyer Beware?
Post 17 Jun 2021, 21:34 • #12 
Sport
Joined: 04/20/20
Posts: 98
Location: Springfield, PA
Yep. This is G Loomis. I think they do much more on the composite side than fishing rod blanks though.


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Re: NFC Buyer Beware?
Post 18 Jun 2021, 06:35 • #13 
Guide
Joined: 06/30/20
Posts: 251
FYI I just got a reply back that they will send me the section of the rod I need as a replacement. I'll let you all know how it ends up.


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Re: NFC Buyer Beware?
Post 18 Jun 2021, 08:37 • #14 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/21/06
Posts: 3081
Location: Orygun
Interesting. I have 5 glass and 2 lmx blanks from them. Zero issues with quality on any of them, in fact they're better than I would have thought at that price point. Oh, the glass 10wt is now my go-to musky rod and I like it so much, I bought a second. In all instances, shipping was very fast.

Cheers!


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Re: NFC Buyer Beware?
Post 18 Jun 2021, 09:50 • #15 
Guide
Joined: 09/11/19
Posts: 134
Location: Canada, Alberta
I ordered two Iconoglass blanks to Canada from NFC. I dealt with three staff for the order, as I wanted to ship through FedEx to Canada (half the price), and made a mid-order change. All the staff were responsive and friendly, I was impressed by the customer service.
I was very pleased with the service and quality of the blanks. No issues with the blanks.
That was just my experience and I would personally order from them again.
Sorry others had different experiences.


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Re: NFC Buyer Beware?
Post 18 Jun 2021, 15:24 • #16 
Master Guide
Joined: 11/11/13
Posts: 774
Location: US-CA
I like Clarkman have built multiple graphite and glass rods on NFC blanks and have never had any issues. The quality of their products has always been great. I know several years ago they had a poor reputation for their service and the way they dealt with customers. But it seems like things have improved at NFC. My 9’ 5 wt. Gamma Beta is one of the best rods I have ever owned.


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Re: NFC Buyer Beware?
Post 18 Jun 2021, 15:27 • #17 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 09/18/09
Posts: 5561
Location: Relocated to the Drought Stricken West.
That blank should never have made it out of the door, other than as a Blem. I feel for them with rolling both graphite and clear glass, but that's unacceptable, even at that price. That's why you paint blanks.

I've had good luck with NFC the few times I've ordered from them. Their first generation graphite rods were heavier than some of the alternatives (but lighter than others) and were amazing casting tools, and not at all glass like. Up there with the fastest production rods.


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Re: NFC Buyer Beware?
Post 18 Jun 2021, 15:36 • #18 
Guide
Joined: 01/25/13
Posts: 338
Location: Avondale Az
I have never had a quality issue on any of the iconoglass blanks that I have built on


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Re: NFC Buyer Beware?
Post 18 Jun 2021, 20:08 • #19 
Administrator
Joined: 01/10/06
Posts: 7811
Location: Holly Springs, NC
A couple points for accuracy.
  • In the continental US, NFC charges $35 for shipping (as many blanks as you order), not $45. Obviously buying multiple blanks makes shipping more cost effective.
  • The NFC Warranty page states "We will repair or replace, at no cost, any product damaged due to faulty workmanship or manufacturing defects. This is typically evident within the few uses, and we will replace at no cost within 90 days." Cosmetic defects are not mentioned, or excluded, on the warranty page. That aspect of their website needs to be more specific, or their policies need to change. In my opinion, considering these are translucent blanks, cosmetics are a big part of the appeal and should be included the warranty.
  • Each blank has a separate $10 excise tax* charge. NFC is the manufacturer, so they are responsible for paying the excise tax (based on the retail price). For commercial builders, you should consult with your accountant to see if that tax payment is applicable for your later rod sale. I read the IRS instructions and I honestly can't tell.
  • The Iconoglass sale price is $75 per blank, any size or color**, plus the $10 federal tax, $5 state tax, and $35 shipping. At worst, that is still only $125 for a US made S-glass blank.


Tom

*Taken from the IRS Form 720 (Quarterly Federal Excise Tax Return) instructions: Fishing rods and fishing poles (IRS No. 110). The tax on fishing rods and fishing poles (and component parts) taxed at a rate of 10% will have a maximum tax of $10 per article. The tax is paid by the manufacturer, producer, or importer.
**They are also selling single hand, switch, and spey fly rod blanks made from that other material for $75 apiece.


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Re: NFC Buyer Beware?
Post 18 Jun 2021, 20:18 • #20 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 03/28/07
Posts: 1006
Location: US-TX
I also had some dark flecks in one of their blanks. They sent me a replacement section at no charge, but it also had some flecks, maybe fewer.


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Re: NFC Buyer Beware?
Post 18 Jun 2021, 21:15 • #21 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/11/05
Posts: 1008
Location: US-NY
jgestar wrote:
....

[*]Each blank has a separate $10 excise tax* charge. NFC is the manufacturer, so they are responsible for paying the excise tax (based on the retail price). For commercial builders, you should consult with your accountant to see if that tax payment is applicable for your later rod sale. I read the IRS instructions and I honestly can't tell.
....


After doing a little research on this, I’ve come to the following understanding. If you are a rodbuilder and sell a rod, you are liable for the excise tax. The tax would normally be 10% of the sale price, but capped at a maximum of $10. However, if you are selling your rod directly to the end user, the tax is calculated not on the full sales price, but on 60% of it. This is because if the builder sold the rod to a distributor, who then resold it to the end user, only the first sale would be subject to the tax. The 60% factor represents a typical wholesale/retail ratio, and is the IRS’s allowance to put both kinds of sale on an equal footing.


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Re: NFC Buyer Beware?
Post 19 Jun 2021, 01:28 • #22 
Administrator
Joined: 01/10/06
Posts: 7811
Location: Holly Springs, NC
bassackwards wrote:
I also had some dark flecks in one of their blanks. They sent me a replacement section at no charge, but it also had some flecks, maybe fewer.

I looked further at the NFC website. On the Iconoglass product pages there is the following text, "Some natural inclusions (specs) are normal as they are a part of the resin and fiber manufacturing process." Inclusions can be seen in the closeup product photo. Yes, jeffroey's blank has some very visible inclusions. To make matters worse, the natural color shows the inclusions most readily.

With respect to translucent blanks, if the manufacturer sorted and graded cosmetics, would fewer visible defects be worth a higher price? In the past, rod companies sold different grades. The best blanks were built into the high grades and the lesser blanks were used for the lower grades. Sometimes the only difference was cosmetic. For instance, in the 1968 Phillipson catalog the fly rod grades were the Royal, the Deluxe, and the Master. The Royal cost more than twice as much as the Master.


Tom


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Re: NFC Buyer Beware?
Post 19 Jun 2021, 12:00 • #23 
New Member
Joined: 06/17/21
Posts: 1
Dear Jeffrey,

First off, that you for choosing an NFC blank - we appreciate the business.

Our manufacturing technique of the Iconoglass blanks is a little bit different from most manufacturers. Gary's mantra is "weight is a deterrent to performance" We add pigment into the resin of the pre-preg to arrive at the color instead of coating the blank post production.

We try to be up front as possible about inclusions/specs in the blanks - that is a byproduct of how they are manufactured. There is no guarantee that a different blank will not have inclusions or specs, and this is why the issue was ruled as a cosmetic issue, and not a defect.



In terms of shipping - we charge $35, and here is what that is comprised of:
Shipping from Washington to PA is $24 (Insured for the full retail value of the blank, as we have rod tubes that come back with USPS/FedEx tire tracks on them) Cost of the cardboard tube - $4.50, cost of bubble wrap and packaging materials $1.75, for a grand total of $30.25. The cost to ship the same blank to Hawaii is $58, and to Canada $82 (taxes paid). Since we utilize flat rate shipping, the extra $4 from your shipment goes to subsidize the guys in Hawaii, Canada, Puerto Rico, etc.

Those of you that suggested that we make a profit off of shipping - this is simply not true, we lose money on shipping, at best break even over the course of the year (depending on the mix of orders) I'm attaching a 7 day shipping log (which is really 5 days as we do not ship on weekends)




Our business model is to practice price transparency - this is why we separate the shipping cost from any taxes which show up separate on your invoice.

In terms of our service - the young lady that picked up the phone even shared her personal cell phone number to aid in receiving a better resolution photo, and followed up with the production manager on the specs in the blank - in our view, she handled your query with stellar support.

We don't want you to be unhappy with our blanks - if you are not happy with it, send it back to us and we will get you promptly refunded.

We love the glass community, and the rod-building community and are thankful for your business. If you have any questions feel free to email us.

Finally, to add some "human-ness" to the brand - We are attaching a picture of our team, taken a few weeks ago for Gary's 80th birthday. These are the folks that are responsible for manufacturing, packaging, support.



Take care,
North Fork Composites.


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Re: NFC Buyer Beware?
Post 19 Jun 2021, 15:54 • #24 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 11/06/17
Posts: 2498
Location: South of Joplin
:like


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Re: NFC Buyer Beware?
Post 19 Jun 2021, 19:07 • #25 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/21/06
Posts: 3081
Location: Orygun
:like


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