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Post 14 May 2021, 12:28 • #1 
Guide
Joined: 01/19/11
Posts: 223
Location: Ontario, Canada
I could not find a post that specifically compared these two brands.
In the late 80s I had three rods built on carbon blanks. The builder used Fuji Sic for the stripper, then Perfection for the snakes & hay-fork tip.
Seems most of the custom glass builders today use Snake Brand for the intermediate guides & tip.

Is there any difference in shape, or performance, or quality between Snake Brand & Perfection intermediates?
Along with a Mildrum Carboloy stripper, which brand of guides would be perhaps more "retro"?

I would love to have "whrlpool's" take on this.


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Post 14 May 2021, 13:58 • #2 
Guide
Joined: 02/13/16
Posts: 326
Location: US-TX
The Perfections are more silvery and less shiny. Longer in general and not as round of a hoop.

Here's a picture I posted previously:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=67450&p=360805#p360805


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Post 14 May 2021, 16:08 • #3 
Guide
Joined: 01/19/11
Posts: 223
Location: Ontario, Canada
Thank you "preast". The thread you quoted had a link to Proof Fly Fishing.
Didn't know this source. Seems that Snake Brand has two weights of wire for their Universal guides, in plain & ECO finishes, including a blackened version. I hope I understood all this correctly.
The underside of the Universal's feet already come dressed to fit on a round blank. Must make building that much easier. I am not a builder but I do like to consider all the components that will make up my custom rod.

For the Perfections, by "longer" did you mean that the distance between the two feet of the intermediate guides would be longer than a Snake brand's guide of the same size?
So, the Snake brand guide's hoop is more round, the feet are closer together. It would seem that the Snake brand would also hold the fly line closer to the blank.


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Post 14 May 2021, 16:41 • #4 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 01/02/12
Posts: 1861
Location: Gig Harbor, WA
Never have used Perfection guides. I have used most of the Snake Brand iterations and would highly recommend the Universal guides. As you noted, they have a rounded bottom as opposed to the typical flat bottom and have found they are so much easier to mount because of that and the quality of the foot finish (filing is usually unnecessary.) I prefer the eco lite wire guides as I build mostly lighter weight rods.


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Post 14 May 2021, 17:00 • #5 
Guide
Joined: 02/13/16
Posts: 326
Location: US-TX
Yeah I also prefer the universals. Only reason I used an original is the pic was that it seemed more similar for comparison. I've only actually ever used black Perfections on a rod but I did buy a chrome one to see how they looked. The Perfections look more traditional to me but I'm the last person to be able to say what's appropriate on vintage glass rods. The finish on their stripping guides is very nice satin too fwiw.

The snakes are about the same height as I recall. They're just rounder as they approach the feet than others. I don't see it as making much difference if any, besides appearance. But I think that's what makes them a bit shorter maybe. You can see in the pic. Pretty sure those are the same size. #1s or 2s I believe.


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Post 14 May 2021, 18:02 • #6 
Guide
Joined: 01/19/11
Posts: 223
Location: Ontario, Canada
Thanks all, this has been very helpful.
Dusty used Snake brand intermediate guides, but I must ask him which "flavour" of Snake brand did he whip on my rod.


Last edited by blueprof on 16 May 2021, 17:20, edited 1 time in total.

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Post 14 May 2021, 19:26 • #7 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 09/18/09
Posts: 5568
Location: Relocated to the Drought Stricken West.
I don't usually spend the extra money for snake brand guides. H&H and PacBay are my standards. I will occasionally use SnakeBrand, but all the guides need to be dressed a bit, so I don't see any reason to spend the extra on Snake Brand. Snake Brand are great, but at that price, its the same as alconite and if you are getting the expensive guides, they are getting up there in cost with Fuji Ti SiC guides.

I personally like the hard chrome finish on guides.

I also use PacBay boat guides for stripping guides. The combo gives a g good "chrome' finish which stands out and will last forever.


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Post 16 May 2021, 09:02 • #8 
Master Guide
Joined: 08/14/06
Posts: 366
Location: US-TN
The black nickel Snakebrand guides have a look very similar to the old tungsten steel guides used on bamboo rods. I prefer that look over hard chrome -- but that's just me.

--Rich


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Post 16 May 2021, 10:10 • #9 
Master Guide
Joined: 09/26/10
Posts: 547
Location: Montana
Not sure I totally understand the thread, but if you are asking which brand is a nicer guide, it is snake brand. For one, they have a nicer finish. I have worn out a few perfection guides, but have yet to wear out any of the snake brands. It will happen, but I think they have a better finish on them and wear better. I would not get too concerned about the feet since it appears someone else is building the rod??? I have used both the original and the universal. I usually end up dressing the feel anyways. The universal probably sit better on the blank, but the original are very nice too. I like them both. H&H were also mentioned. They are also a nice guide with a great finish. I used to prefer those until Snake Brand came out. But they do a terrible job dressing their feet. I sometimes spent more time fixing them than starting over myself or they ground off one side terribly short. Almost wish I could buy them undressed…


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Post 16 May 2021, 16:18 • #10 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8933
Location: US-ME
Oh no, I see you were wondering about my take on this. How long lasting guides are--even of the same brand--is a variable of the size, number and spacing on any one rod, of the fly lines used and the mineral fines in the waters fished most often. As just one angler, I wouldn't be able to account for those variables on my own rods, let alone guess them out among brands--if I could remember what brands I had on my rods.

Dressing the guides before mounting isn't a factor to me. I just do it as need be. "A lot," "a little," or "none" is inconsequential on any one rod build. I do make sure the feet are straight and not bowed up or down. So I might bend one a bit.

I prefer small guides and the more oval shape, rather than rounded. I want the line in a line parallel to the rod and close so there is no slop. This isn't as much about casting but about line control in fishing. I have excellent--too good sometimes so as to be distracting--peripheral vision, so rounded guides that let line bulge left or right of the rod in fishing position say "slack" to my eye when I want quick tightening to swim the fly, twitch it over a couple inches, retrieve or mend, or to set the hook. Get those guides and line bulges out of my eye; all I want is the line of the rod and the tip top and a straight line under the rod, barely noticeable. Now I know where the fly is and what it will do if I nudge the rod, strip 6 inches, and so on. The narrower loop seems to hang and center the line for best control--and provide the peripheral vision feedback that is sort of automatic to me.

But that is to my eye, "studied" in fishing. I will notice line bulging into oscillating postions (left or right of the rod held in fishing position). I would rather swat black flies, but whether this matters much or should to anybody else, I can't say. It is kind of like what color/style/size bead on a shotgun; many have a preference, yet if the bead is removed, they may not notice for quite a while. Eventually, they will, and it will drive them nuts until the bead is replaced.

So I select guides by shape, not brand, chosen from what I have on hand or whatever looks about right if I need to buy some. I always get extras. I already can't remember which is which in shape by brand as nicely illustrated above.

Different for a custom build unless someone has a distinct preference. If not, I'd rely on the builder's judgment for the particular blank, whatever brand or combination of brands the builder thinks suit the rod and the fishing intended.


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Post 16 May 2021, 17:43 • #11 
Guide
Joined: 01/19/11
Posts: 223
Location: Ontario, Canada
The questions I originally posed came out of my general lack of knowledge about quality intermediate "snake" guides. I was just curious which brand of guide may be better.

Since then, I have been able to talk to the builder (Dusty) & we were able to come to an agreement on all the separate "bits" that will make up my new rod. BTW, Dusty did use Snake-Brand Universal ECO guides on last year's 806 & be using the same kind for this season's 865 rod.

Thanks all again for your input. I have learned new things about "snake" guides from folks who have had experience building.


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