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Thin Section Stents
Post 27 Apr 2021, 15:24 • #1 
Sport
Joined: 04/20/20
Posts: 98
Location: Springfield, PA
This feels like my next stupid rod building question in a long line of stupid rod building questions :D

Anybody NOT afraid to use thin section stents in their builds?

Remember, I'm only a couple of builds in and I have components coming through the door for a Fisher build I'm excited about. Here's the scenario:

This rod has a butt dia that exceeds a half inch so I'll be using a stent beneath the reel seat. Up to now I've relied on solid glass stents that seem very robust but unnecessarily heavy. I've shopped around and found a thin walled carbon fiber tube that OD-wise is a near-perfect fit for my need. The wall thickness is only ~ 0.5 mm . . . pretty thin.

It does pass the bend test - it feels like I'd need to exert A LOT of force at the ends of the 12" section to buckle the tube and I'll only be using a fraction of that for a stent (maybe 6-7"). The tube is marketed as a replacement spur for a quadcopter BTW.

Here's the questions:

1. Considering all of the bending is going to be done at the grip and this rod isn't a fighting butt rod, what are you more experienced rod builders using for stents and how thin are you willing to go?

2. Am I overlooking the advantage of having a little more weight on the back end for balance?



Pictured from left to right: thin section carbon tube, glass stent provided by Ray Lee with the seat I'm adding to the build (too big on the OD for the rod) and a soild glass stent picked up from Proof FF.

Thx!


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Re: Thin Section Stents
Post 27 Apr 2021, 16:09 • #2 
Guide
Joined: 12/14/11
Posts: 212
Location: Oregon
My opinion as an amature builder, I doubt the thin stent will break as your blank is also fairly inflexable at that point and I assume your seat insert is wood and completely inflexable. I would use the solid one because a little extra weight at the butt could be a good thing and how much weight are we really talking about? You could even arbor up the solid one to make it fit into the thin walled one but I would just arbor up the solid. Is the Ray Lee stent solid? if it is you could turn it down to fit. As I have basicaly the same blank as you and am currently contemplating its build also with a stent, I have a broken carbon rod which I stripped down and cut off the seat and will use the butt end of that hollow carbon rod as my stent. I'snt it fun to have this kind of stuff to think about....
Paul


Last edited by 2wtt on 27 Apr 2021, 22:56, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Thin Section Stents
Post 27 Apr 2021, 18:22 • #3 
Guide
Joined: 01/25/13
Posts: 338
Location: Avondale Az
Depending on the blank wt and the seat choice, we bore inserts over .500 for builds all the time.

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id ... &sk=photos


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Re: Thin Section Stents
Post 27 Apr 2021, 18:56 • #4 
Sport
Joined: 04/20/20
Posts: 98
Location: Springfield, PA
Thx 2wtt. Difference between the two stents is about 1/2 oz. I went ahead and get it up with the carbon fiber and I'm going to stare at it for a couple of days while my tip top is being shipped

Yhe RL carbon is not solid and I have no ability to turn it if it was.

Thx SWCR. Some nice looking hardware on your FB page.


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Re: Thin Section Stents
Post 27 Apr 2021, 22:32 • #5 
Guide
Joined: 12/14/11
Posts: 212
Location: Oregon
Another idea is a wood dowel that will fit in the thin stent....
I am going to check out Southwest Custom Rods though as well because I would rather not cut this blank if I dont have to.


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Re: Thin Section Stents
Post 28 Apr 2021, 07:57 • #6 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8920
Location: US-ME
You wouldn't have trouble with a stent cut from the butt of any old junk scrap of a graphite rod of similar line weight, fit into the 'glass blank. Five dollars would be a lot to pay for one; they are usually left behind free at heavily used fishing access points. BUT, the SWCR option will be a lot nicer, and a straightforward, sure-thing installation.


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Re: Thin Section Stents
Post 28 Apr 2021, 13:30 • #7 
Administrator
Joined: 01/10/06
Posts: 7811
Location: Holly Springs, NC
jeffroey wrote:
This rod has a butt dia that exceeds a half inch so I'll be using a stent beneath the reel seat.
Why is that a requirement for a stent?

If the reelseat will slide over the butt of the blank, the reelseat can be mounted on that blank. Can you provide some measurements or photos?


Tom


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Re: Thin Section Stents
Post 28 Apr 2021, 15:54 • #8 
Guide
Joined: 12/14/11
Posts: 212
Location: Oregon
Tom thats the trouble, finding a seat that will slide over big boo & glass butts that are not all metal, not saying there is anything wrong with full metal seats... BTW, the other blank I'm looking at besides this Fisher is the Lami SFL 108 9' 5/6m which has a bigger butt than the Fisher. This Lami will get built this coming winter if not sooner...


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Re: Thin Section Stents
Post 28 Apr 2021, 18:18 • #9 
Administrator
Joined: 01/10/06
Posts: 7811
Location: Holly Springs, NC
I understand that most reelseats are sized for skinny little graphite blanks. The knee-jerk suggestion is to cut the tail off the blank and use an extension. Then the inevitable question is "how do I build a strong extension". The easiest answer is "don't cut the blank". Extensions are not the only answer. I've never used one.

In rod building there are many ways to proceed with any project (for instance). That is half the fun. But without knowing the actual measurements it is hard to recommend anything.


Tom


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Re: Thin Section Stents
Post 28 Apr 2021, 20:42 • #10 
Sport
Joined: 04/20/20
Posts: 98
Location: Springfield, PA
In this particular case, the butt diameter was on the order of 0.51". I wanted to use the particular walnut reel seat pictured below and opening the bore from the delivered ID of about 0.435" to accommodate a 0.51" blank would've made the seat's wall thickness too thin IMO so I opted for a stent.

Yep - 20 ways to skin this cat but I've used stents on most of my earlier builds and I'm comfortable with the concept. I don't think lopping off the last four inches of a blank that's going to sit inside a rigid reel seat is going to have any noticeable effect on rod performance and for someone like me who's not lathe savvy (yet), it seems like a very low risk approach to overcoming a notable diameter mis-match (blank OD to reel seat ID).

Still climbing the learning curve so my opinion may differ at build 40 but at build 5 today, a stent is an easy and effective way to overcome the issue.

The original question I asked was "how thin of a stent is too thin?" Maybe the question I ought to be asking is "has anyone ever broken a reel seat stent on a 6 wt or below rod?"

Here's a few pix:


Original butt OD


Reel seat fit-up


Stent and tape shims


Blank OD to Reel Seat ID


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Re: Thin Section Stents
Post 28 Apr 2021, 23:29 • #11 
Guide
Joined: 12/14/11
Posts: 212
Location: Oregon
Tom you are in a different league than I, I lack both the tools & the knowledge to use them but I have hacked off some excess threaded barrel before and Jeff you know what your doing with what you have on hand, nice seat by the way.


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Re: Thin Section Stents
Post 01 May 2021, 00:51 • #12 
Administrator
Joined: 01/10/06
Posts: 7811
Location: Holly Springs, NC
Ah, the blank is cut. You have done the deed. What’s done cannot be undone. ;)

There are many ways to correctly build a fishing rod. The following opinions are just that - only my opinions. YMMV

Unless something tragic happens, a rod with an extension will fish just fine. Many, if not most, extensions are stronger than the rod blank. Personally, if an accident occurs I want the stent to shatter, not the blank. For that reason, I would use a hardwood dowel that fits snugly in the spacer. The other end of the dowel is easy to shape to a taper that matches the blank (use hand tools or chuck the dowel in a power drill). Dowels also glue easily.

A couple of points to consider.
  • In normal fly fishing situations, the reelseat doesn't do much. Flexing stresses are carried by the blank (and the extension). The reelseat hood and thread/lock ring take some twisting stresses from the fly reel. The reelseat spacer is just that - a spacer with minimal stress, if any. I like to make spacers from cork. Many bass rods have spacers made from space (literally, as in no spacer at all). Spacer strength is not an issue.
  • Boring out the spacer is not a big deal. Thin walls will be supported when the spacer is epoxied to the blank. As SWCR said, they do this all the time.
  • A lathe isn't necessary, but files are. Good files will last longer than your interest in rod building. A 10 inch coarse round file can fit cork rings and pre-glued grips, reelseat bushings, and reelseat spacers. A medium flat file is good for reshaping metal. A set of fine needle files are handy for de-burring guides and tip tops.


2wtt, A Lami SFL 108 9' 5/6m with a butt diameter larger than 0.5"? The only SFL108 I have in my old Lami catalog has a butt diameter of 0.475" and was for an 8 weight line. Did your rod come with a marked blank or Lami packaging?


Tom


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Re: Thin Section Stents
Post 01 May 2021, 12:14 • #13 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 03/16/08
Posts: 3540
Location: Upstate-NY
Tom,

The Lami SFL’s came in slow, medium, and fast tapers (“S”, “M”, “F” suffix on the labeled model number…)

The rod with a “Big Butt” is probably an “F” model, Im guessing?


Also, I agree - pretty easy to bore-out a hardwood insert by hand with a rat tail round file. With spacers, prefectly round inside diameter isnt so necessary - your adhesive will fill all the irregularities, and actually allow for a stronger bond…


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Re: Thin Section Stents
Post 01 May 2021, 12:25 • #14 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 09/18/09
Posts: 5561
Location: Relocated to the Drought Stricken West.
I thought you were worried about using .5mm or smaller stents in a tip section. For the reel seat, I wouldn't worry about hollow stents if you have a good fit inside the handle.

On a recent build, I gave Ron at SWCR the diameter I needed and chose the piece of wood to match the Lemke seat and he turned it down. Great customer service.

If you are going to bore out a hardwood insert, I don't mind boring out a seat a little (to .5 is fine) but I have split a reel seat when trying to fit a larger blank. I should have used a stent.

I can't imagine breaking one of these stents. My question for the others out there is how much do you insert the stent into the butt(under the handle)? And do you glue up before or after the grip is on and shaped or before?


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Re: Thin Section Stents
Post 01 May 2021, 13:47 • #15 
Guide
Joined: 12/14/11
Posts: 212
Location: Oregon


I went back & did some searching and Tom I'm pretty sure I sold you one of these blanks back in 2013, its in your stash... the butt is close to .54, translucent thin walled S glass?


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Re: Thin Section Stents
Post 01 May 2021, 18:41 • #16 
Sport
Joined: 04/20/20
Posts: 98
Location: Springfield, PA
Hi Carlz. Yes. I was originally worried about the selecting a stent with a wall thickness that would buckle too easily. At the end of the day, I proceeded with the thin wall stent - after putting a good bit of bending force on the carbon tube by hand, I feel pretty confident that if I actually buckle it fishing, it'll be one hell of a fish story :)

BTW, IMO I've been inserting about 3 inches of stent into the blank. That length seems more than sufficient to ensure it's true to the blank and once you apply epoxy, that's doing all of the 'holding-in-place' work.

This build is moving along nicely - just finished the first coat of spar. I hope I don't offend any of the purists but I decided to appoint the build in classic Winston attire.







Just to add to 2wtt's highjack (joking :) - I'm glad to spawn such good conversation), my last build was a Lami S-Glass SFL 966S. 8', 2 pc, 6 WT. Measured butt diameter was 0.453"; tip was 0.087"


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Re: Thin Section Stents
Post 02 May 2021, 00:42 • #17 
Administrator
Joined: 01/10/06
Posts: 7811
Location: Holly Springs, NC
2wtt wrote:
I went back & did some searching and Tom I'm pretty sure I sold you one of these blanks back in 2013, its in your stash... the butt is close to .54, translucent thin walled S glass?
:\ Really? :o I believe you. Sadly, there are LOTS of things I don't remember... My inventory spreadsheet does include that rod blank! I also have two built out 9 foot S-glass rods... but SFL Lamiglas blanks have hijacked jeffroey's thread. We should start a new thread for them.


To circle back to jeffroey's original question, of the materials presented I would use the thin walled tubular graphite.

Nothing wrong with classic Winston looks. It's your rod, build it to look the way you like it.


Tom


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