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Post 19 Apr 2021, 08:45 • #1 
Sport
Joined: 01/07/19
Posts: 60
Location: Madison Heights, MI
I need a second (or 3rd, 4th, and 5th) opinion here. I might be overthinking this, but I feel like the first 2 or 3 guides could be moved back a bit for better spacing on this deflection. Am I seeing this correctly or are my eyes playing tricks on me?






Thanks for the feedback,
Bryan


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Post 19 Apr 2021, 10:52 • #2 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8920
Location: US-ME
What's the rod length? Even against the bricks (about 8") the perspective makes it hard to guesstimate dimensions. And it's really hard to tell about spacing from a static position, plus the relatively moderate flex shown wouldn't tell the whole story. In spite of these limitations, the snake guides on the tip section look too far apart to me. The tip looks fairly stiff, so I would want to check it under a wider range of loads/flex.


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Post 19 Apr 2021, 16:14 • #3 
Sport
Joined: 01/07/19
Posts: 60
Location: Madison Heights, MI
Thanks Whrlpool,

for more specs, the blank is a James Green semi-parabolic 7'9" 5wt.

Here is it is under a deeper load - please ignore my kids climbing blocks in the background, I tried using them to make it easier to see rod and line against the light walls.









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Post 19 Apr 2021, 21:52 • #4 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/23/05
Posts: 4966
Location: US-MT
I think ten(?) is too many. And like the gentleman noted above, hard perspective to see things, but it looks to me like your stripper is too close to butt end.
Don't let it keep you up nights, though I know the feeling.


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Post 20 Apr 2021, 09:18 • #5 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8920
Location: US-ME
James Green might have a recommended spacing for that blank--or someone here who has one. You probably can't go wrong if you had a good default chart for starters, making the usual adjustment to personal reach with the stripping guide and any slight changes to the next one or two snakes accordingly. The position of the stripping guide also affects the flow of line from or to the reel, more distance to it yielding a shallower (smoother) angle. Still hard to tell from looking. It appears the tip isn't going to flex significantly more, so maybe that apparent stiffness is part of the intended parabolic action of the rod and the spacing shown suits it. Never a fan of the type, I just don't know if parabolic actions benefit from significantly different spacing. Maybe someone does.


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Post 20 Apr 2021, 10:10 • #6 
Master Guide
Joined: 05/16/10
Posts: 814
Location: South of Houston, TX
To my eye, the guides all look roughly the same distance apart, rather than becoming progressively closer toward the tip. It may be an illusion based on the photo, but were it me, I'd start with the Art Scheck formula. I've got it in an excel sheet that allows me to quickly change the length of the rod, the number of guides, the distance up to the stripping guide, and the distance from the tip top to the first guide.

If you don't want to build your own calculator, Chris Carlin of Carlin Bamboo (also linked to by Proof) did all that for you on his site, which has a couple of different options.
http://carlinbamboo.com/guidecalc/index.htm


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Post 20 Apr 2021, 10:31 • #7 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8920
Location: US-ME
One way to get a more complete look in static flex: use a bit more bend that feels closer to max for the rod. Flex the rod that way, but with the guides facing UP.. Observe where the line touches the blank or wants to come downward across it. Observe how closely the base of the guide restrains the line so it follows the curve of the blank. Now put the rod flat, unloaded. Look through the aligned loops. Flex from the tip. When the uppermost snake appears as its own loop, the line about at its base and tiptop loop "down" out of view except for the top of its loop aligned with base of the snake, that's about it. Flex further. Disappear that snake and the next one down will appear to stand alone. And so on. Hard to describe. Very easy to see if you start with the guides up and rod flat, flexing downward slowly from the tip.

As I have gained confidence and experience in rod building over the years, I have found that a rod will tell you what it needs for guide spacing if you look carefully as described. No ruler is even needed. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=57229&p=273904&hilit=generic+spacing#p273904


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Post 20 Apr 2021, 10:36 • #8 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 11/06/17
Posts: 2498
Location: South of Joplin
A guide calculator with three formulas- http://carlinbamboo.com/guidecalc/index.htm
Tips on spacing for bamboo that should apply equally to 'glass- http://bamboorodmaking.com/Tips-files/G ... ement.html

Go cast it, fiddle with it and cast it again. How it looks in a static bend may not matter.
I think I'd want fewer guides and all of them crowded towards the top a couple inches, but if that is fully bent, the line seems to follow the rod.
I think I'd like that blank.


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Post 20 Apr 2021, 16:53 • #9 
Sport
Joined: 01/07/19
Posts: 60
Location: Madison Heights, MI
Thank you all for the great info. I'm going to check out these calculators and the "upside-down" method whrlpool described once I get the kiddos in bed for the night.

And yes, majicwrench, that is 10 guides + the tiptop. This is following the suggested spacing provided by James Green, but I think I might try going to only 9 and moving the stripping guide a bit more forward, but well see what these test show.


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Post 20 Apr 2021, 22:33 • #10 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 11/06/17
Posts: 2498
Location: South of Joplin
James Green knows that blank better than I, give him more heed than anything I said.


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Post 21 Apr 2021, 06:15 • #11 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8920
Location: US-ME
Same here, which is why I suggested checking for his known spacing. Other than tweaking the stripping guide to my preferred reach, I'd check my measurements and leave it that way if it were to his recommendation. If you get examining it further, though, it will be interesting to find out if any of the suggestions yield a similar result.


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Post 23 Apr 2021, 11:16 • #12 
Sport
Joined: 01/07/19
Posts: 60
Location: Madison Heights, MI
Update -
So I thought it cast nice before, but now it casts really well. I followed whrlpool's advice on starting with the guides up and following the line and it allowed me to make a few small tweaks that made a noticeable difference (for the better) in the casting.

So although I James did provide a guide chart, it wasn't absolute - I'll post it below.


And then per James -
"Here's a chart, I think the 8' rod spacing with 10 guides is better...the first 5 guides from the tip will be the same, just move the next 5 guides a little closer together. 2/0-2/0-2/0-2/0-1/0-1/0-1/0-1-2-#8 or #9 stripper. This is for Pac Bay. Snake brand 1/0 are the same as Pac Bay 2/0. Put the curve of the rod up...put the guides on the down side, its ok to turn the tip side to side to make it look as straight as possible. Grip should be 6" I prefer downlock and shorten the seat to 3 1/4" to 3 5/8" just long enough so your reels all fit. 3 thin coats of thread master, 5-6 coats min wax spar."

so I initially followed the spacing of the 8ft, which lead to the stripping guide being very close to the grip. Funny thing is is that when I followed Whrlpool's method, I ended up with the stripping guide at the exact same placement as the 7'9ft spacing chart, with a blend of spacing between the 2 suggested charts.

My spacing, in case anyone ever finds it useful is -
4 5/8
10 1/8
15 7/8
22 3/8
28 7/8
36
43 1/2
52 1/8
60 5/8
69 3/4

Thank you all again for the input, I cant wait to get this wrapped and out on the water.


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