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Silk ferrule wraps ?
Post 14 Apr 2021, 22:00 • #1 
Master Guide
Joined: 03/20/07
Posts: 849
Location: US-TX
Hey ya'll.

Working on Rod #8 and am taking the step from nylon thread to silk wraps.

Working on a NOS Fisher 8ft 5wt 2 piece blank with a spigot ferrule.

Question:
Does silk secure a spigot ferrule as well as standard nylon thread?

Nylon wraps seem to be more snug and secure. Silk wraps feel looser.

Do silk wraps protect the ferrule as well as nylon - once they are treated with spar varnish and flex coat?

Or is a nylon under-wrap required?

Thanks!


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Re: Silk ferrule wraps ?
Post 14 Apr 2021, 22:04 • #2 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/31/15
Posts: 1249
Location: Northern Rockies
Silk will be just fine. It's very strong, and you don't need much tension to prevent a break there once varnish or epoxy is applied.

Some rod builders I've talked to have recommended double wraps for increased strength, but others I've asked about double wraps there don't think it's necessary. And that goes for both nylon and silk. I think it comes down to wall thickness and personal preference.


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Re: Silk ferrule wraps ?
Post 15 Apr 2021, 06:02 • #3 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/12/07
Posts: 1296
Location: western Massachusetts
Most new rods don't need anything special for ferrule wraps, but that is NOS, and you might want to use nylon on the ferrule wrap. If the female looks fragile, you might want to double wrap it and give it a coat of thread epoxy. Blank condition is everything in making your decision.


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Re: Silk ferrule wraps ?
Post 15 Apr 2021, 06:59 • #4 
Sport
Joined: 01/13/12
Posts: 80
Location: US-NC
imho that juncture will have more possible stress problems than any other point. i'd wrap well with nylon and be done with it, enjoying the fact that it's done "right". the spigot joint will/should always be pushed tight. there's the possibility also of well meaning folks who will try to tighten the joint up.


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Re: Silk ferrule wraps ?
Post 15 Apr 2021, 07:22 • #5 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8933
Location: US-ME
Fisher recommended wrapping at the spigot joint. The assumption at the time was that nylon thread was being used. Ask yourself what you are gaining by using silk. You will be able to say, "I used silk thread." You can say that any how if the other wraps are silk. You could even say it about the nylon wrapped spigot--if comfortable with a white lie--because the difference will be completely unnoticeable except in macro studio photography, or in perfect light if you lend someone a magnifying glass or reading glasses. If you are fishing, you will forget all about it, and guaranteed no one else will notice.


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Re: Silk ferrule wraps ?
Post 15 Apr 2021, 08:01 • #6 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/10/09
Posts: 1655
Location: US-OH
Silk stretches a lot less than nylon and you can get almost two wraps of silk for every wrap of nylon. I doubt if anyone has done destructive testing on practice ferrules comparing the two thread types but if I had to guess I'd bet that the silk might be more resistant to ferrule cracks because of it's low stretch. Either one will be just fine, IMO.


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Re: Silk ferrule wraps ?
Post 15 Apr 2021, 21:02 • #7 
Master Guide
Joined: 03/20/07
Posts: 849
Location: US-TX
Thanks for all the replies.

I’m on the steep part of this learning curve.

My intent is to learn as much as I can from y’all during this process.

Thanks for all the expert advice.
With the relatively thin wall on the female ferrule of this NOS blank, I went with a snug nylon underwrap (nylon is a medium brown) and then added a top wrap with the dark brown silk to color match the silk the guides.
I used spar varnish after each wrap.

Appreciate everyone’s guidance.


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Re: Silk ferrule wraps ?
Post 17 Apr 2021, 12:03 • #8 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 09/18/09
Posts: 5568
Location: Relocated to the Drought Stricken West.
Are you doing silk for the guides?

Guide foot prep is the key, reduce the hump at the beginning of the guide foot. That and really check for threads that might crossed over each other. They seem to jump up out of no place.


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Re: Silk ferrule wraps ?
Post 17 Apr 2021, 13:55 • #9 
Guide
Joined: 01/19/11
Posts: 223
Location: Ontario, Canada
Hello all,
The original poster used "NOS" Fisher 8'..........
I do not know what is meant by NOS in this context. I'm not familiar with this particular acronym. A Google search gave confusing definitions.


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Re: Silk ferrule wraps ?
Post 17 Apr 2021, 14:17 • #10 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/12/07
Posts: 1296
Location: western Massachusetts
New Old Stock (NOS), usually means a new build on old materials (stock). The state of preservation of the old stock can vary wildly.


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Re: Silk ferrule wraps ?
Post 19 Apr 2021, 14:35 • #11 
Guide
Joined: 01/19/11
Posts: 223
Location: Ontario, Canada
Thanks. Never would have guessed.
So this would mean that the original poster was using a brand new vintage blank?


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Re: Silk ferrule wraps ?
Post 19 Apr 2021, 15:14 • #12 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/12/07
Posts: 1296
Location: western Massachusetts
Right, the blank is an old one that has never been built on. So it is a new build with old stock. Such blanks are in varying conditions of preservation, so you want to take that into account when you wrap the ferrules etc. Such blanks are always a gamble, it could break the first time you cast it, or fight a fish. Most of the time they are OK.

It is the same thing with a new blank, there could be damage that you can't see, and that is where the rod fails. It may not fail the first time you try it, but it eventually will fail. That is why new blanks have a one year factory warranty.

Old blanks that have been kicking around for a while, could have been abused in all kinds of ways while in storage. And, the ultimate question that always bugs me is: Why wasn't this blank built-on years ago. Could the original rod builder have rejected the blank because it had some kind of flaw? Yes, using NOS blanks is not for the faint-hearted. :)


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Re: Silk ferrule wraps ?
Post 27 Apr 2021, 08:04 • #13 
Master Guide
Joined: 03/20/07
Posts: 849
Location: US-TX
Yes....
this is an unsanded Fisher phenolic resin blank with spigot ferrules that was manufactured in the late 70’s- early 80’s that I purchased from Randy Johnson.

In the 70's, John Kennedy Fisher rolled blanks for Winston and Scott in his plant in Carson city, Nevada.

Not sure if this is one of them or not, but crossing my fingers and hoping that this will turn out to be a nice rod when it’s done.

Almost done....
Spalted maple reel seat, DL slide band,
agate stripper guide, and my first attempt at using silk.







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Re: Silk ferrule wraps ?
Post 27 Apr 2021, 19:25 • #14 
Administrator
Joined: 01/10/06
Posts: 7824
Location: Holly Springs, NC
Guadalupe Bass wrote:
In the 70's, John Kennedy Fisher rolled blanks for Winston and Scott in his plant in Carson city, Nevada.

Fisher rolled blanks for many companies, including Winston. They never made blanks for Scott.


Tom


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Re: Silk ferrule wraps ?
Post 29 Apr 2021, 18:22 • #15 
Master Guide
Joined: 03/20/07
Posts: 849
Location: US-TX
Thanks for the correction Tom.
I had copied/pasted that info from a website.

“You can’t believe everything you read on the internet.” - Abraham Lincoln


Here it is after the final coat.

I’m very pleased with the way the translucent tobacco/bourbon brown silk wraps complement the translucent agate.







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