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Post 08 Apr 2021, 20:04 • #1 
Sport
Joined: 12/01/20
Posts: 44
I recently picked up the above rod on Ebay, due to positive reports I read on this forum and the desire to try a parabolic action rod (are these truly parabolic action?). Turns out the tip section was broken (unknown to seller as it was disguised with adhesive tape), not all the way through, looks like an electric window crush or such. The question is should I cut it and put a stint insert, or could I get away with saturating in Gorilla glue or Epoxy and wrapping with thread? After the partial refund I have all of $10 invested in the rod, but I'd like to restore it as best as possible.



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Post 08 Apr 2021, 21:47 • #2 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/23/05
Posts: 4966
Location: US-MT
Are the two pictures of the same break?? Is that right at the tip top? If it is that close to tip tip, simple to just cut an inch off tip and stick tiptop back on. Also simple to put a short section of either graphite rod tip OR a piece of spring wire in there, wrap over it, and have a full length rod.

Just the glue will never work.

I dislike rods with short tips. So I would cut it right at the damage, and take a piece to hardware store, and find the springs. Look thru the assortments till you find one about the right diameter. Take about 3/4" of that spring and glue it in as a stent. Works great, I have done it many times.
https://www.grainger.com/product/3HPP3? ... lsrc=aw.ds


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Post 08 Apr 2021, 22:19 • #3 
Sport
Joined: 12/01/20
Posts: 44
Thanks for your response. I read that you have some of these Berkley rods and was hoping you might respond. Just for now, the link you provided is to a 90 degree angle spring with a .77" diameter, way to large to fit into the tip of the rod. Like you, I would prefer to keep the length intact. Did you mean to link to a different spring? I have no idea how that one would work.


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Post 09 Apr 2021, 00:14 • #4 
Administrator
Joined: 01/10/06
Posts: 7811
Location: Holly Springs, NC
The repair needs to replace the strength of the fiberglass fibers that were broken. The spring wire is stronger than the fiberglass tube. Soft wire like copper or aluminum will simply bend.

1) Find a spring with a straight section of wire that will just fit inside the broken rod tip. Not too tight a fit, you have to leave room for the glue. The curly part will be cut off and discarded.
2) Cut about 1-1.5 inches of the straight section (3-4 cm for metric followers). Round off sharp edges. Rough up the wire with sandpaper.
3) Glue the spring into the rod tip with 1 hour epoxy (5-min epoxy will set too fast). NO GORILLA GLUE! Extra epoxy can be carefully sanded away after it cures.
4) Wrap with thread to match the rest of the rod, as best possible.


Tom




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Post 09 Apr 2021, 07:28 • #5 
Master Guide
Joined: 05/16/10
Posts: 814
Location: South of Houston, TX
What is the inside diameter there? I've had success with graphite shafts from Goodwinds https://goodwinds.com/product-category/ ... lid-round/ (a kite shop) but at some diameter they will be too small for the correct amount of support. I'll admit to trying a sewing needle in a near tip break with a small inner diameter area. That repair failed.

If it were my rod i'd try to fix it by inserting a graphite shaft from the ferrule all the way up to the tip to see if I could get a good fit. The shafts are 48" long, so should just reach up to the tip of an 8' rod. Might need to attach a handle of some sort to it for retrieval after the dry fit. If I found a diameter that sufficed or could be sanded to fit I would then cut about 3" or so of it, I'd inject some epoxy into the break, then ram the 3" splice all the way up there. That way you don't have to cut the fibers you still have in place. Then wrap the outside of the rod and see how it fishes.

The downside of this is that you'll have more $ tied up in the repair than the rod at current shipping rates. But I bought an assortment of the shafts and have found them handy to have around.


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Post 09 Apr 2021, 09:16 • #6 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/23/05
Posts: 4966
Location: US-MT
I salvage broken graphite rod tips (plenty of em around) for just such repair, many graphite tips are very small diameter.
But go with the spring, Tom did a wonderful job illustrating & describing what you need for repair. I would keep the spring stent under an inch.
There are many springs with straight sections, not just the style pictured above.

keep us posted.


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Post 09 Apr 2021, 10:59 • #7 
Sport
Joined: 12/01/20
Posts: 44
Thanks for the detailed response. I am kind of slow sometimes. I reread majicwrench's response and finally understood what he was advising, but the site does not allow me to reply to my reply, or I don't know how to do it. Come to think of it, I guess I should have replied to him again- I told you I was slow! Anyway sorry I had you go through so much trouble to explain something so simple, but I do certainly appreciate your patience and work.

I am now wondering if I could employ a hybrid of the two methods, using a spring and forcing it to the end with a graphite tip - I also have a number of those. Since the break is right at the tip top it would be easy to position it. Forgive me if I am overthinking and over complicating this, but this latter method would allow me to preserve the fibers that are intact and make a seamless repair, but maybe that is not so important.


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Post 09 Apr 2021, 11:20 • #8 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/23/05
Posts: 4966
Location: US-MT
I see what you are thinking, and it's not worth the hassle IMHO, but could certainly be done.

On second thought, nah, you would have a hard time getting the epoxy up there. Like Tom said, you don't need a spring that fits snug, it's much stronger than the glass, and you want some glue well around it.


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Post 09 Apr 2021, 12:49 • #9 
Sport
Joined: 12/01/20
Posts: 44
Yes, the biggest danger would be the spring sticking before it made it all the way to the break. I removed the tip top hoping I could insert from that end, but it is solid. I suppose I could keep nipping away until it becomes a tube, but if that turns out to be a significant amount I would not be accomplishing much. Anyone know how much tip I would need to remove before reaching the hollow tube? I think that would be the most elegant solution, even if the tip top attaches to the wire only, unless there is some danger in that.


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Post 09 Apr 2021, 14:33 • #10 
Administrator
Joined: 01/10/06
Posts: 7811
Location: Holly Springs, NC
Take two...

The repair still needs to replace the strength of the fiberglass fibers that were broken. If the broken tip is nearly solid, there won't be enough steel to replace that strength. Another option is a sleeve repair. Sleeves repairs are more visible, but are stronger and easier to do.

You mentioned having some graphite tips on hand. You need to cut up a graphite tip to make a 'sleeve' that will fit snugly over the broken rod pieces. The two broken pieces will be glued into the sleeve, just like placing a plaster cast around a broken bone.

  1. Remove the tip top and any remaining thread from the ends of the broken rod pieces. Rough up the ends with fine sandpaper.
  2. Cut about 1 inch from the graphite tip, so that the inside diameter of the graphite snugs over the broken rod pieces.
  3. Glue the rod tip piece in first, then the large broken section. Align the pieces as best possible, then leave them to set.
  4. Glue with 1 hour epoxy (5-min epoxy will set too fast). Still NO GORILLA GLUE - this evil potion expands and foams as it sets, which will dislodge the repair.
  5. Extra epoxy can be carefully sanded away after it cures. Smooth down the ends of the sleeve with some sandpaper.
  6. Wrap with thread to match the rest of the rod, as best possible.

[By the way, instead of replying to your own post simply 'edit' the post and add the new information.]


Tom



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Post 09 Apr 2021, 14:35 • #11 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/23/05
Posts: 4966
Location: US-MT
So rod is solid up there??
If so, I would just have rod an inch shorter.


I have several rods with tiptop mounted on the wire sticking out from the tip. You can use a tiptop with a much smaller tube, and it makes a good looking repair.

Personally I think sleeves are unattractive, but it would work if you really want that last inch of rod.


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Post 09 Apr 2021, 16:03 • #12 
Master Guide
Joined: 05/16/10
Posts: 814
Location: South of Houston, TX
Just a guess, but I'd say that the tip isn't really solid, but is plugged with the same adhesive that held the tip top on. If you want to come from the tip, you'll need to drill out the glue that is plugging it. If you drill out the same diameter as the internal repair you'll add you may have some success with that.


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Post 09 Apr 2021, 16:22 • #13 
Sport
Joined: 12/01/20
Posts: 44
The rod is not solid where the break is, but about 1/2' above it. I got the bright idea of taking a needle and "drilling" from the top down into the hollow. Was going just fine and then the break gave way, so I now have it completely broken in two. So do I saw each end flat and sand smooth, and when I connect the two with the wire do I leave a small gap like a spigot ferrule so that the ends don't rub? Alternatively, I could join the two broken ends and mesh them like a scarf with the wire inside and threaded over. That sounds a bit dicey, but maybe the glue/wire/thread combo will prevent any movement or rubbing between the fibers.

Oh, I have a bottle of the clear Gorilla glue. It does not foam and seems as strong as the brown, but I also have one hour epoxy so I might as well use that.

Edit: Just saw ColdPass' recommendation after sending this reply. So my plan was OK, but my execution was poor.


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Post 09 Apr 2021, 16:35 • #14 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/23/05
Posts: 4966
Location: US-MT
Don't leave gap, just clean up the ends, stick wire in there with some epoxy, stick tip back on. No mesh. Next day, clean up excess epoxy if any and wrap. Repair should disappear, and will fish just fine.


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Post 09 Apr 2021, 21:20 • #15 
Guide
Joined: 02/04/18
Posts: 208
Location: US-MN
I have a spartan, 8' 5 wt and a Parametric 8' 7 wt, I wouldn't say the spartan is as parabolic as the Para. But it is closer than most other rods I have fished.


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Post 10 Apr 2021, 07:12 • #16 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8920
Location: US-ME
Good instructions are being provided, and nicely detailed. Once you know what does work--tried and true using materials suited to the purpose--no reason to consider what might work instead. Clear Gorilla glue might work, but you can see why it might not https://www.gorillatough.com/product/cl ... illa-glue/

Not sure if you have removed the tip top. Doing so is easy enough with instructions a search here will turn up. If it is secure and removing it won't let you see anything more clearly for the break repair, you could just leave it in place.

Just as well it's broken off completely. Now make an extra close inspection that there are no splits running up or down. Any ragged splinters at the break point can be gently dressed away since they will contribute nothing to the strength of the repair. You have to assess any splits and make sure the repair exceeds their length up or down the blank. If there are several and you use a wire stent, then you might want to wrap the entire repair area, clear or color matching the rod or tiptop wrap. If either broken part looks split, weakened, then I would sacrifice appearance for external strength against further splitting and use a simple sleeve as described above. It could be installed to abut the tip top, and chamfered at its lower end with a small decorative wrap transitioned to the blank.

The trick with these repairs is judging the strength and continuity of the joint. A substantially stronger or weaker/ stiffer or softer joint just creates another break point. Choose your method (stent or sleeve) accordingly. But please use epoxy.


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Post 10 Apr 2021, 11:14 • #17 
Sport
Joined: 12/01/20
Posts: 44
I was unable to find any springs with wire in diameter .047, so I am going to order this music wire, supposedly good for making springs:
https://www.grainger.com/product/GRAING ... Wire-3L581
It is far more wire than I will ever use no matter how rough I might be on my rods, but since I can avoid doubling the cost on shipping by picking it up locally it looks like the thing to do, unless someone here advises against it.

Reading through the forum, the consensus is that the parametric are not truly parabolic rods. I was hoping to try that action without forking out $400+. OTOH, user here, pearow, stripped and added guides to a Spartan, like the one I have, and says it is his favorite 6 weight rod. The main reason I bought it, so I am looking forward to trying it out. It certainly passes the “kitchen test” in terms of action, so I am hopeful.


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Post 10 Apr 2021, 11:50 • #18 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/23/05
Posts: 4966
Location: US-MT
Spartan and Parametric not same blank.

In my hands, all those Berkley 8ft rods, Spartan, Buccaneer, Tri-Sport (got to be a dozen diff names) etc are great 7wts.

Again, you don't need wire same diameter as ID of blank. I have a Parametric (since we are talking Berkley) with a piece of spring, wrapped with a bit of thread and then glued in the tip. Almost any spring wire you put in there will work with some glue.


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Post 10 Apr 2021, 13:29 • #19 
Sport
Joined: 12/01/20
Posts: 44
“Again, you don't need wire same diameter as ID of blank.”

Understood, but I do need it to not be larger in diameter than the blank. For some reason I am having trouble locating any springs other than coiled ones that are small enough diameter to fit into the tip. Any suggestions? I am hesitant to try to straighten coiled spring wire, should I not be?


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Post 10 Apr 2021, 16:32 • #20 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/23/05
Posts: 4966
Location: US-MT
Go to any hardware store and look in the spring assortment, there will be hundreds of them.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Expansion-Sp ... 2343818534

No need to straighten the coils.


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Post 10 Apr 2021, 17:09 • #21 
Sport
Joined: 12/01/20
Posts: 44
Thanks again for your patience. They either had none at the Home Depot, or the sales helper did not know how to find them (more likely). Anyway I found some lying around and it was all that hard to straighten. It is a nice stiff spring so I am not worried about it bending into a set. I hope to glue it in tonight. I will post the results. I never thought this would be such a long thread, my apologies.


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Post 10 Apr 2021, 18:54 • #22 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 11/06/17
Posts: 2498
Location: South of Joplin
ACE is the place. Ace (or any Hardware) will not only have a spring assortment, they usually have a music wire assortment. Home stores probably not.


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Post 01 May 2021, 20:21 • #23 
Sport
Joined: 12/01/20
Posts: 44
OK, tip has been glued and glue has dried. Looks good, hopefully will stand the test of fishing. Thank you all for your help!

Update:
I stripped the paint off and attached, with dental bands, S/N guides from Proof fly fishing. Took it out this morning for a test cast. Wow! Loads easily, casts smoothly and accurately. Liked it with a 6 wt best. Effortless 60 foot casts and managed just shy of 80' with a double haul. This is with the guides turning sideways due not being fixed tight by the bands! I can't believe what a deal some of these fiberglass rods are.

I am planning an extended trip south of the border, which may involve some camping/hostel stays. Rather than risk theft of expensive rods I think i will bring some of these vintage glass rods.

Now, I will need to learn how to make fiberglass ferrules for these so I can turn them into 4 piece rods for airline travel.


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