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Post 14 Jan 2021, 14:05 • #1 
Guide
Joined: 09/11/19
Posts: 134
Location: Canada, Alberta
Hi everyone,
I am currently building a rod using silk thread to produce clear guide wraps and its driving me nuts!
I have found that a bunch of finished wraps will unravel later (before the epoxy is applied), causing me to have to re-do the wraps. I am not too sure what is causing the issue or what the possible solution might be. I am not too sure if the issue is from too tight tag wraps at the end, too loose, from the guide moving when I wrap the other side, placement of the tag end, etc. Driving me nuts!
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Also, someone had suggested using Sally's Tough As Nails as a slight clear adhesive to hold the tag end in place while I wrap the other guides before the epoxy. Seems like a good idea, but unsure if the Tough As Nails will impact wrap clarity or when the epoxy is applied.

Thanks!
Jason


Last edited by jasonseaward on 14 Jan 2021, 14:41, edited 1 time in total.

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Post 14 Jan 2021, 14:29 • #2 
Administrator
Joined: 01/10/06
Posts: 7811
Location: Holly Springs, NC
When you state, "finished wraps will unravel later, causing me to have to re-do the wraps..." do you mean the wraps unravel before you apply varnish or epoxy?

If so, wrap a couple of guides and apply your finish of choice before you are done for the day. This would be easier with thinned spar varnish than epoxy. Still, mixing and applying epoxy in 3-4 small batches will be easier than continuous rewraps. Besides, unless you finish with epoxy all the time, it is difficult to coat all the wraps before the mixture thickens.


Tom


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Post 14 Jan 2021, 14:43 • #3 
Guide
Joined: 09/11/19
Posts: 134
Location: Canada, Alberta
Hi Tom,
I fixed the original post to state that it unravels before I put the epoxy on.
Last night, I would do a wrap on one side of a guide, to have it unravel while I did the opposite side. So back and forth I went. I was unable to have a couple guides finished to justify mixing epoxy to coat.


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Post 14 Jan 2021, 15:25 • #4 
Master Guide
Joined: 02/24/12
Posts: 456
Location: US-MI
I would try a couple of things. First, increase your tension a bit. You do not need loose wraps to get the silk to go transparent. Second, when you insert your pull loop and wrap over it to finish the wrap, make sure you wrap over it 4-6 turns to make sure the tag end is good a secure.


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Post 14 Jan 2021, 16:37 • #5 
Administrator
Joined: 01/10/06
Posts: 7811
Location: Holly Springs, NC
Did you prep the guide feet to lay dead flush on the rod blank? If you wrap one foot does the other lift off the blank? If so, the guides may need to be bent/adjusted to lay flat. Otherwise wrapping the second foot will stress the initial wraps.

Another possibility is to pull the tag ends through the wrap, but do not trim them off until you are ready to epoxy. The tag end is not held as firmly after trimming.

If you finish with spar varnish, don't trim the tag ends until after the first application of a thinned varnish (or color preservative). That's the only way I can get 2 wrap trim bands to work.


Tom


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Post 14 Jan 2021, 17:45 • #6 
Guide
Joined: 09/11/19
Posts: 134
Location: Canada, Alberta
Brilliant! Thanks everyone. I think the increased tension and leaving the tag ends until epoxy will do the trick!


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Post 14 Jan 2021, 18:52 • #7 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/31/15
Posts: 1238
Location: Northern Rockies
jgestar wrote:
If you finish with spar varnish, don't trim the tag ends until after the first application of a thinned varnish (or color preservative). That's the only way I can get 2 wrap trim bands to work.


This is good advice. I will only add that it’s true for me with epoxy as well.


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Post 15 Jan 2021, 00:24 • #8 
Guide
Joined: 02/13/16
Posts: 326
Location: US-TX
One other thing is placing your tag end far enough away from the guide foot on the blank. There's that point where the thread is starting to go up over the foot, creating the void, where there's no tension against the blank.


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Post 19 Jan 2021, 11:47 • #9 
Guide
Joined: 09/11/19
Posts: 134
Location: Canada, Alberta
Just a quick update.... the tighter wraps and leaving longer, uncut tag ends has resulted in nice wraps that have not fallen apart.
Success!!
Thanks everyone!!


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Post 19 Jan 2021, 12:32 • #10 
Guide
Joined: 07/13/16
Posts: 129
Location: US-MI
Glad to hear you’re having better results. Keep at it, it just takes practice. I think I still have a pair of scissors lodged about a foot deep in my wall from venting during my first build.


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Post 19 Jan 2021, 12:56 • #11 
Master Guide
Joined: 03/20/07
Posts: 849
Location: US-TX
Awesome!
Please post pics when you can

I’ve learned a lot by following this discussion already.

I’m following this thread with interest and am hoping to use silk wraps for the first time on my next build.

Did you use the Sally’s Tough as Nails to hold it in place before the epoxy?

Wondering if others had used it on silk wraps and how that worked and how it affected the epoxy, if at all. I use the Tough as Nails on my flies and it works well.
I’ve also used the Sally’s on some thread wraps (without epoxy) on an old beater rod and it seems to have held up well so far and didn’t affect the color of the wraps.


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Post 22 Jan 2021, 18:26 • #12 
Guide
Joined: 09/11/19
Posts: 134
Location: Canada, Alberta
Hi Bass.
I found that silk was a tough transition from nylon because it’s so small and not as forgiving in regards to tension. I had a bunch of frustrated re-dos, but I guess it’s all part of the learning. I am quicker and more confident now. If you do decide to use it, mentally prepare to allow yourself a period of learning (trial and error).
I have not used anything to hold it together beyond the suggestions in this post. The greater tension and uncut tag ends is all I have needed.
I am working on this rod slowly, but will post pics after the epoxy is applied.


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Post 09 Feb 2021, 18:18 • #13 
Master Guide
Joined: 06/27/06
Posts: 774
Location: SW Missouri Ozark Plateau
This was the primary reason I went to nylon. I can put a bit of tension on the nylon and it will stretch, keeping the wrap in place firmly until I can get warnish oin it. I was always having trouble keeping silk wraps in place until i could get a coat of varnish on them to seal them to the blank. I never uss CP, either.


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