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Old Fenglass rod blank.
Post 02 Jul 2020, 07:53 • #1 
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Joined: 02/03/14
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Location: US-IL
I have a 12’ Fenwick Fenglass noodle rod, I have been thinking of building something with this rod. My thoughts are to build it into a switch rod, a four piece if possible, right now the rod is A two piece. It is a tip over butt ferrule, I would like to add two tip more tip over butt ferrules. I’m looking for information on how to do a tip over butt ferrule. Or if this project is even a good idea to try.


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Post 02 Jul 2020, 09:25 • #2 
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Location: Holly Springs, NC
Before you remake your rod, test cast it with an appropriate fly line or two. It won't cast perfectly with the current guides, but it will give you a good idea. You might find you are better off selling the noodle rod and buying a switch rod blank.

You can't turn a two piece tip-over-butt ferruled rod into a four piece tip-over-butt ferruled rod. Each section of a tip-over-butt ferruled rod is made separately so they will fit into each other. The end of each section is more slender than the butt of the next section.

You can cut each section into two pieces and install a spigot ferrule. You will have to make your own spigots as these are not available on the market. The cuts and spigot lengths need to be carefully determined ahead of time for the rod sections to be the same lengths when you are done. Alternatively, you could cut the sections and install metal ferrules. This is not a project I would recommend for a new rod builder.


Tom


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Post 02 Jul 2020, 23:18 • #3 
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Joined: 06/23/05
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Location: US-MT
You can also fit rod with oversleeves instead of spigot, it will kind of be like tip over butt.

Sounds like a fun project. Keep us posted!


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Post 03 Jul 2020, 15:15 • #4 
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Joined: 09/18/09
Posts: 4794
Location: Washington DC Region
As Tom mentioned. You can't do tip over butt (it just doesn't work that way) but you can do spigot ferrules.

However, I would cast it as a two hand rod and see how well it works. It sounds like an interesting project, but it might not turn out to be good for what you want to do. Just tape a fly reel to the rod now and see how it works.


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Post 04 Jul 2020, 06:39 • #5 
Sport
Joined: 04/27/20
Posts: 26
Location: Germany
Ah, what a nice projekt.
And you have the chance to do something special with this blank.

I just changed a 2 piece 14´ carbon rod with a over/under (tip over butt) and a bit to slow action into a much nicer rod (for me).
I changed the tip over butt into a spigot ferrule. I cut back both ends of the ferrule part until both inner diameter were the same. Then a made a spigot for it.
Now the rod has a faster action and the bending curve became much nicer.
Very often tip over butt connections shows a flatter/stronger curve above the ferrule than below.
Especially at the tip section of 4 piece rods you will find this.
I changed this on a number of carbon fly rods by cutting back the upper part of the second piece(other than I just dicribed above) until I think it might be better. But only once I could than use a spigot ferrule.
In all the other cases the lower part would not allow a spigot because the taper would be too slow. ( With this I mean, that the grow of the diameter of the blank is to small to allow a spigot)
Here I had to grind down the blank until i had a new tip over butt ferrule. But now I have to reinforce the area where I grinded because there was a big loss of wallstrength. I glued a hollow piece of blank inside this area that is about 3/4 inch longer than the grinded part.

CarlB50, when you measure your blank - outer diameter - inner diameter you might find out where about you could use the upper 4-5 inchs of the handle part as a spigot. This should worke because I think your blank has a fairly steep taper ( quick change in diameter).
You would get a blank with a faster action but still very glass like.
The lost part in overall length you can add by an extra piece on the lower end of the handle that will later be covered by the corkhandle/reelseat. This is something I do often, changing the action of rods/blanks in this way.
Especially with 4 piece fly rods you often find this week part below the uppermost ferrule.
The tip section of the rod will therefor have "its own live" and is not really well "connected" to the lower part.
And you find this not only with cheap rods.
My Sage RPL+ 9 # 4 , that I bought used shows this problem. I will change that by cutting away " one ring length" of the upper end off the second piece. So I will lose about 6 ´´ off rod length and one ring.
But it will cast ( much) better after that.

So, I do apologise my long text but I´m rod builder by heart and get to easy into talking to much about it.


Last edited by doublehaul on 04 Jul 2020, 13:54, edited 1 time in total.

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Post 04 Jul 2020, 07:47 • #6 
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Joined: 02/03/14
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Thanks for the responses, I really appreciate your input and thoughts. I’m thinking of installing spigot ferrules. I’ve done spigot ferrules on a couple of other rods, which turned out quite nice. I have many lines for two handed rod. I will put a line on the rod and see what makes it sing. I will let you know how it turns out. Carl


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Post 04 Jul 2020, 12:22 • #7 
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Location: Holly Springs, NC
CarlB 50 wrote:
I will let you know how it turns out. Carl

We love pictures! Any photos you take of the spigot building would be great to see.


Tom


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Post 05 Jul 2020, 03:13 • #8 
Sport
Joined: 04/27/20
Posts: 26
Location: Germany
This is one of my older projekts that shows how to make spigots on an old Sportex glass blank.
The original blank was 9´ , 2 piece , with a long tip and short handle. I cut the blank into 4 pieces and added an extra piece to the handle section to get a 11´ rod for carp fishing.

It also shows an example of a "tapered " spigot that has its strong part in the middle only. So the spigot can bend a little with the rod.

http://rutenbauforum.de/rodbuilding/thr ... vierteilig


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Post 05 Jul 2020, 14:40 • #9 
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Joined: 02/03/14
Posts: 6
Location: US-IL
Well I’m thinking of making this 12’ noodle rod into a switch rod, its a 2 piece rod tip over butt ferrule which I will get rid of and putting 3 internal spigot ferrules. I know i may lose some of the 12’ length of the rod, but I’m looking at a rod that will be somewhere in the 10’6” to 11’ range. I’m really not to concerned about what line weight it will cast, maybe between a 5wt. To 8 wt switch. I think this is going to be a fun project.


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Post 07 Jul 2020, 10:19 • #10 
Sport
Joined: 04/27/20
Posts: 26
Location: Germany
Here you see 3 ways how to tune rods at their joints to get a better action.

http://rutenbauforum.de/rodbuilding/thr ... post115713

The 1. picture shows a rod like yours - changing a tip over butt ferrule into a spigot ferrule.
In this case I cut back both ends to have 2 pieces of the same length.
But than you need a new spigot.

The 2. rod, the Greys GS 2 I shortened only on one side until I could use the upper 3,5 inchs off the cut away part as a spigot. Here I get a shorter rod piece than the other 3.

In your case I would only cut the handle until you could use the upper end as a spigot and then add an extra piece at the lower end of the handle. Doing this, you wouldn´t lose any lenght and you would have to find only 2 more spigots for your 4 - piece rod.

The 3. case I show is something in between: Here it was not possible to use a spigot, as I would have to cut back the lower piece to much. Here I had to grind a new tip over butt ferrule. But as I lose a lot of wallstrength it is neccesary to glue a piece of hollow blank into this section. This extra piece should be about 1/2 inch longer than the grinded part.


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