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Spigot ferrule material
Post 22 May 2020, 09:26 • #1 
Master Guide
Joined: 12/19/07
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Location: US-MI
I’ve got 4 7 1/2’ glass blanks. Right now they are 1 pc. I’m toying with the idea of making one a 4 pc. I’m figuring that spigot ferrules will be the easy way and I’ve done them before on 2 pc rods.
What’s the group’s opinion. Solid glass for the ferrules or cut up a second blank for hollow spigots? Or use two and try tip over ferrules.


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Post 22 May 2020, 10:17 • #2 
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solid is the worst idea for MOI - you need an I.D. surface for stiffness.
You can actually use graphite, because it's next to impossible to get the bulk modulus of the smaller O.D. spigot up to the larger O.D. of the glass blank.


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Post 22 May 2020, 10:32 • #3 
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Dang- I hadn’t thought of that ID surface effect !


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Post 22 May 2020, 11:06 • #4 
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Tedious work, and requires a long bit, but you can always drill out solid - don't need a big hole, just a hole.


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Post 22 May 2020, 11:26 • #5 
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I would cut up one of the blanks for spigot ferrules. You then have extra material for a stent on which to mount the reel seat. At one point I made both 5pc and 6pc rods, cutting spigots from one piece blanks.


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Post 22 May 2020, 21:44 • #6 
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If I had spare blanks laying around I would just cut up one of them.

Lots of folks use solid glass, it works fine.


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Post 23 May 2020, 02:16 • #7 
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Location: South of Joplin
Must be a broken graphite rod in a dumpster near you. Chances are that if I cut up one blank to try to make spigots for three others that I'd end up with diameters that didn't work on two of them.


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Post 23 May 2020, 11:20 • #8 
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I'm not a fan of graphite spigots, too stiff IMHO.


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Post 23 May 2020, 11:44 • #9 
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I hadn't considered there was any flex in any spigot due to the short length and the fact that the rod will always be more flexible on either side of the thickened area, but perhaps you're right. The only spigot rods I've used were all graphite and rather stiff throughout.


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Post 24 May 2020, 12:18 • #10 
Sport
Joined: 04/27/20
Posts: 28
Location: Germany
For the last 40 years, I cut over 100 blanks into pieces.
I made 4 piece blanks out of 2 piece blanks. 3 pieces out of 1 piece blanks.
8 piece blanks out of 4 piece blanks. The blanks were of glass or of carbon, even out of solid carbon.

For this projekt I would recommend hollow glas ferrulles. If you don´t mind to cut one of the other blanks, that would be perfekt for colour and taper.

But you should strenghen the spigot by a second layer (inside) otherwise it might be too week and could brake, because you would probably have the same wallstrengh like the rod but a smaller diameter. ( the wallstrengh of the spigot should always be visibly thicker than the blank at this point, maybe 30-50%)

But this extra piece inside can be shorter than the spigot itself, becaus the danger of braking is only in the "open" part of the spigot, where it is not covered by the blank.
Make the inner spigot about 1/2 inch longer on each side, that it goes well into both parts of the blank.

Spigots can bend. I made a lot of spigots, that do not interrupt the curve of the rod.

It could be, that the inner diameter of the blank becomes to small for a spigot towards the tip.
Then I´m using a outer ferrule for this section. The ones you know from older Orvis carbons or the yellow fenwick fly blanks and others.

I would never use a carbon spigot on a glass rod ( but I used glass spigots on carbon rods to get the bend).
And I also never use a solig glass spigot. It´s unnessesseraly heavy and on a heavy rod with a solid glass spigot, this spigot might get more bending than the rod itself at this point. ( I had this on an english graphit carprod. The solid glass spigot would never brake, but it didn´t look wright, as it bend a bit more than the rod itself)

Reinhard


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Post 24 May 2020, 20:10 • #11 
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well, that makes for a hinge, because it is absolutely impossible to get a glass spigot ferrule up to the bulk modulus of larger O.D. graphite.


Last edited by bulldog1935 on 25 May 2020, 06:13, edited 1 time in total.

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Post 24 May 2020, 23:17 • #12 
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Joined: 06/23/05
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Location: US-MT
I remember trying glass stents in damaged graphite when I first started seeing broken graphite, it doesn't work.

I have pondered the doubling up of the hollow ferrule material and just dont see the need. Lamiglas uses hollow spigots, as does Berkley in the Parametric line, and does not double it up. I never have either and have had no issues. But if it works for you, go for it.


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Post 25 May 2020, 03:57 • #13 
Sport
Joined: 04/27/20
Posts: 28
Location: Germany
@ bulldog: i combined glass ferrules with the inner section made of carbon.

That makes softer spigots, that bends with the rod and gives the stiffness/strength a that part of the spigot, where it is nessesary.
And I used glass outer ferrules ( is there a special word for this in english?) on carbon rods, to keep the rod bending under the ferrule. Here an example, where I cut a solid 1- pieces carbon blank into 2 pieces and added an extra pieces of hollow blank for more lenght. The outer ferrule is made of fairly thin wall glass covered by a layer of thin dark grey fireline ( a coated braided line for spin fishing). (Picture of the ferrule on page 2)
http://rutenbauforum.de/rodbuilding/thr ... r=0&page=1


The whole new spigot doesn´t have to be strong. I often use for the spigot material of lesser wallthickness and higher bending than the blank itself. Only the shorter inner part must have the right strength - wallstrength and bending strength.
The overall length of the spigot is only nessesary to get enough friction to keep the 2 blank pieces together while casting.
To transfer the power of the upper blank piece to the lower one you need less length - let´s say 1 " or even less.
The rest of the spigot you need for the fricton.
The next link is an example of an 11´ carp rod, that I made out of an 9´ spinning blank + an extra pieces for more length. Then I cut the blank into 4 pieces and connected them with spigots.
That is a rod for hard work, casting and fish fighting, so the spigot should never be weeker than the blank itself.
http://rutenbauforum.de/rodbuilding/thr ... vierteilig.

@ majicwrench
My very first spigot ( made 37 years ago) broke, when I repaired an broken Hardy fibalite spinning rod, because the wallstrength was not good enough. This never happend again. :)
You are right, that on many parts of a rod it is no problem to have a spigot with the same wall as the blank itself, especially at the more bending parts of a rod towards the tip, because the blank will bend away before it might brake. But it would allways be weeker than the blank.
But for the lower but section part, where you have the most power for casting and fish fighting, I never use a spigot of only the same wallthickness. When you have a spigot of the same material like the blank, than the spigot would be weeker than the blank itself as the spigots diameter is lower.
Only for a outer ferulle that is ok. because of the larger diameter of the ferrule.


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Post 25 May 2020, 06:26 • #14 
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Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
By mathematical definition, Every spigot ferrule is less stiff than the larger diameter rod blank.
This is why spigot ferrules are superior to tip-over, which creates a extra stiff spot at every joint.


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Post 25 May 2020, 09:44 • #15 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 11/06/17
Posts: 2511
Location: South of Joplin
Quote:
And I used glass outer ferrules ( is there a special word for this in english?)

I think the word you want may be "sleeve".


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Post 25 May 2020, 12:26 • #16 
Administrator
Joined: 01/10/06
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Location: Holly Springs, NC
Me thinks we need a Spigot Ferrule 101 Workshop. I will try to have it finished up this week.


Tom


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Post 26 May 2020, 07:50 • #17 
Master Guide
Joined: 12/19/07
Posts: 398
Location: US-MI
Now my brain hurts from info overload.
I’ve cut the blank and have some materials gathered.
The quick and dirty solution is to use metal ferrules but thats not going to happen if I can help it.


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