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Post 31 Mar 2020, 11:03 • #1 
Sport
Joined: 06/01/17
Posts: 63
Location: Idaho
Hi folks. I hope everybody is staying safe in these interesting times.

I am building my second fly rod. Don't look too closely at the material for this blank**, not relevant to this discussion ;) . I'm using Flex Coat High Build epoxy for the thread finish on this rod. I put on one very thin saturating coat and let that cure and then was planning on putting another thin finish coat on. But it occurred to me, do I really need to? The picture is representative of what the wraps look like so far. Thread texture can be felt at some spots. If the additional coat would just be cosmetic I might not bother and save the weight.

** The blank is a graphite Batson Rainshadow Revelation 10' 5wt 2-piece, if anybody is interested.


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Post 31 Mar 2020, 12:29 • #2 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/27/14
Posts: 1501
Location: ON, Canada
I’d say it should be just thick enough to encase the thread (ie no texture), but stop before the epoxy starts to become an element independent of the thread.

That might be esoteric. Let me try again.

I look for the point when the thread and finish sort of start to look like they’ve merged into one thing. Too little and it looks like fuzzy wet thread. Too much and you can start to see the layer of finish sitting on top of the thread. There’s a point in between where they look like they’ve fused into one element and that’s what I want.

(The above should be taken with the caveat that I’d consider my wrapping and finishing to be the weakest part of my rod building skill set!)


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Post 31 Mar 2020, 12:41 • #3 
Administrator
Joined: 01/10/06
Posts: 7824
Location: Holly Springs, NC
Thread finish has two purposes. The one we spend the most attention to is the aesthetic - thread wraps are more attractive with a nice finish.

More importantly, the finish keeps the wraps from moving. The finish glues the wraps together so they act more like a tube of nylon holding the guide instead of acting as individual strands. The combination is stronger that the parts.

Functionally you need enough finish to glue the stands together. Second, a smooth finish better protects the wraps so individual wraps aren't bumped and separated. I like brockton's description of "fused into one element". Once you feel you have satisfied those two things, any additional finish is simply for looks.


Tom


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Post 31 Mar 2020, 13:06 • #4 
Sport
Joined: 06/01/17
Posts: 63
Location: Idaho
Thanks. Based on those replies, I think I have just adequate epoxy on some wraps and am probably a touch thin on others. I'm going to add one more coat, as thin as I can get it. Too bad, if I had realized that beforehand I think I could have left a little more on the first coat and been good to go! I was trying to avoid the football shape wraps I have on some of my factory made rods.


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Post 31 Mar 2020, 13:55 • #5 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8933
Location: US-ME
Well explained. Enough to fill and smooth the wraps. In epoxy finish, best result for that goal is with "low-build" finish types, which are closer to the finished appearance of spar varnish, which is inherently "low-build" unless dramatically over-applied. The "thin" nature of each coat may be different from type to type, but with any one of them, another "thin" coat for that finish type is better than an extra-"thick" coat just to avoid doing another one. Yours looks good, and the last coat will level it. Remember to start each wrap with less finish to spread, because you won't have the absorption and flow to the underside as with the first coat or two, so the wrap will require less.


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Post 05 Apr 2020, 20:03 • #6 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/11/05
Posts: 1012
Location: US-NY
Ditto on the above post. I’ve been building rods for over four decades and have never used a high-build finish. IMO, these finishes are for rod manufacturers who are trying to minimize labor costs. With a high-build finish, if you’ve reached the point of “almost enough finish”, the next coat would put you way over the top.

I’ve always used a low-build finish, either spar varnish or epoxy. Typically, four coats gets me to where I want to be.


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Post 05 Apr 2020, 20:19 • #7 
Master Guide
Joined: 02/01/12
Posts: 903
Location: Upstate NY
High Build, Low Build, those terms are actually pretty stupid to label a product.
They should be labeled High/Standard Viscosity or Low Viscosity.
You can get a “low build” application with a High or Standard Viscosity product, just don’t apply as much. When you look at someone’s finish work whether it be a hobby/pro or factory job, and you have a “football” appearance, they are applying to much finish, regardless of the viscosity.
Like some others have stated, apply just enough to cover the wraps with an even finish that results in not being able to see the thread ridges. It should look like the wraps are incased in glass.


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Post 05 Apr 2020, 21:39 • #8 
Guide
Joined: 12/28/19
Posts: 129
I use thread master lite and apply one heavy finish , never had a problem with foot balls . After it rotates a little I stop it and wipe off whatever sags with a business card then let turn til she's dry .


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Post 05 Apr 2020, 21:51 • #9 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8933
Location: US-ME
I like the way wjude put it. From a manufacturing and formula standpoint, the "football" finish (high viscosity) formula does allow more latitude and (other than shape) maintain good durability and clarity if applied too thick. It is formulated to work thick. With the other products, varnish especially, the thinner the better. Putting a lower viscosity on too thick will result in a finish that is more likely to be soft, or to cloud, peel, and check. Their beauty and resilience is brought out best in thin coats as described. An additional benefit is that they are easily refreshed 10 or 15 years later on that original finish with one more coat--still without a bloblike, soft outcome.


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Post 05 Apr 2020, 23:47 • #10 
Sport
Joined: 06/01/17
Posts: 63
Location: Idaho
I'm not very experienced at this, but just playing around I found I could make as thin or thick a coat I wanted with the "high-build" epoxy. Flex Coat says it can be thinned as well, if desired, with acetone. I did not find this necessary. I am going to disagree with wjude however, in that I found it hard to get a good finish by just applying less of the high-build, rather I had to apply a bunch and then remove the excess.


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