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Post 21 Mar 2020, 15:22 • #1 
Guide
Joined: 03/24/13
Posts: 149
Location: Black Forest, Germany
Hi,

I recently bought a St. Croix Imperial 8'6" 6/7 weight 2 piece graphite on the bay for 50 bucks. Model from a couple of years ago. I was searching for something cheap to cast a sinking line from my iSUP. Pretty powerful quality rod, does the job well. I am happy with the rod, except that the reel seat is not in line with the stripping guide on the butt section. The butt section has this one guide. The guide seems to be the original guide, wraps look the same as for the other guides. I would say the reel seat is also original. The thing is that they are about 20 degrees off/twisted. Let's say that if I hold the reel/reel seat at 6 o'clock, the guide is at 5 o'clock or 5 thirty. It does not really seem to hurt the performance very much. It is more that I have this uneasy feeling that something is not the way it should be with the rod. What happened with that rod? Manufacturing error? Did it get hot and displaced? What can I do about it? Would you do anything about it? I know its not glass, but I also know that here are knowledgeable and helpful folks around on this forum that might help me out nonetheless.

Thanks!


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Post 21 Mar 2020, 15:49 • #2 
Master Guide
Joined: 02/01/12
Posts: 903
Location: Upstate NY
It might be either one of those two. Tough to say which one. If it did move after it was assembled at the factory, then it could be pretty easy to fix.
Is there any movement in the reel seat now? Try and see if the seat will rotate with some mild twisting.
To remove it, this method has worked on some rods for me, just depends on the quality of epoxy that was used in the first place to glue it up.
Place the butt section in a plastic bag, like a gallon zip lock freezer bag and secure it in place. Bring a pot of water to a boil, immerse the seat into the water and let the water heat it up, give it a few minutes, and with a heavy glove on, try turning the seat off. Sometimes this works. If it does come off, just sand down the butt section and replace the seat, lining it back up. Just use a decent "long cure epoxy", I'd shy away from 5min stuff.
Your other option, just cut it off and replace it, which might be more of a project than you might want to get into with a $50 rod.
You might want to post a couple of pictures of the reel seat, that might give us a look at how large of a job it would be if you were to "cut" the seat off, like where it meets up with the cork, what type of hood is it, hidden, flush, ect. I remember the Imperials, but I cannot picture the seats on them.


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Post 21 Mar 2020, 15:52 • #3 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 03/30/09
Posts: 1525
Location: Hamilton,Ontario,Canada
I bought a brand new St. Croix Imperial years ago and it had exactly the same problem and this was right from the factory as I had to order the rod.Luckily the St. Croix rep was right there in the store and took the rod back to the factory and got me another one.In your case the only things you can do is take the guide off and reinstall it correctly.Your other choice is take the reel seat off and put it back on straight but I don't think it will come off properly.You can also cut the seat off and put a stint in and a new reel seat.Myself I would carefully take off the guide and reinstall it in line with the reel seat.If you cant do it yourself see if you can find a rodbuilder near you.There are plenty of them on here and may be near you.


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Post 21 Mar 2020, 17:17 • #4 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/12/07
Posts: 1296
Location: western Massachusetts
Before you do anything, try casting the rod. Unless you are doing tournament casting, you might find it is not as big a problem as it looks. Sure, you may find you loose some distance, but it still fishes well.


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Post 21 Mar 2020, 18:20 • #5 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/23/05
Posts: 4971
Location: US-MT
Often this is caused when the stripping guide gets bent to one side a bit. Take a good look at it, if straight, is simple to bend it a few degrees either way to help minimize the issue.

It isn't going to cause a loss of casting distance or any problems, but it would probably bug me enough to do something about it.

And as was mentioned, make sure the seat isn't a tad bit loose.


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Post 21 Mar 2020, 18:24 • #6 
Master Guide
Joined: 12/19/07
Posts: 398
Location: US-MI
Put a reel on it. Many times there is enough room in the seat hoods to cant the reel slightly.
Frankly I’d probably leave it. I have a tendency to angle my arm anyway so that would probably compensate.


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Post 22 Mar 2020, 17:06 • #7 
Guide
Joined: 03/24/13
Posts: 149
Location: Black Forest, Germany
Thank you for the input. I have cast it and I do not really see any performance issues. It is just that it is bugging me. I double checked in daylight and there are two guides on the butt section that are in line. Missed the other guide the other day. Also the hook holder is in line. I think it must be the seat. Trying to move the reel in the seat helps a little, but is no real remedy. I can not just gently twist the seat. It is firm. Here is a photo, do you think the heating thing could work? How about heating it and twisting it a bit and letting it cool again?



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Post 22 Mar 2020, 17:18 • #8 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8931
Location: US-ME
Looks like a wood insert, right? The hardware is glued to that. Only the upper hood would need to be rotated to the alignment you prefer. Use an old scrap of leather to pad some plier jaws, and don't use any more force than can be easily applied without a strong squeeze or twist. Quick high heat. Jiggle loose with the pliers. Don't force. It may reset on its own but will probably need to be glued again. If it makes you feel better, protect the cork and the insert with multiple wraps of masking or painter's tape. If that smolders in the least, more than enough heat has already been applied, but you will know before any minor harm is done.


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Post 22 Mar 2020, 17:22 • #9 
Master Guide
Joined: 02/24/12
Posts: 456
Location: US-MI
If you are going to apply enough heat to move the seat it is worth removing it and re-installing it. The process of heating will breakdown the epoxy and it will not hold well after heat has been applied. Its better to remove the seat, clean off as much epoxy as possible, and then epoxy it back in place. I did a short video showing how to remove a seat with heat. You can find it here:

https://www.proofflyfishing.com/pages/how-to-remove-a-reel-seat


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Post 22 Mar 2020, 18:47 • #10 
Guide
Joined: 01/25/13
Posts: 339
Location: Avondale Az
That seat has a mortise in the barrel end, just rotating the front hood is going to do absolutely nothing to remedy the issue at hand.


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Post 22 Mar 2020, 19:00 • #11 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/12/07
Posts: 1296
Location: western Massachusetts
I don't recognize that brand of reel seat, and so I am not sure how it would come apart. Assuming the reel seat was attached by someone who knew what they were doing, I think you will have a difficult time removing the seat so you can use it again. I would suggest you take it to an experienced local rod builder. Only you can determine if it is worth the cost to replace the reel seat, or reposition the guides to line-up with the current reel seat orientation (which I think is the cheapest solution).


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Post 22 Mar 2020, 20:19 • #12 
Master Guide
Joined: 02/01/12
Posts: 903
Location: Upstate NY
If you enlarge that photo, it looks to me like the hood is not “true” to the mortise section of the wood insert. It looks to me like the hood did move to the right about 10 to 15 degrees off center, if looking down on the seat.

If it bothers you that much, remove it like I told you and reinstall it. I’d try the boil in a bag first before going to a heat gun.

I just looked at that picture again, it also looks like the barrel end is not true to the insert? Does the wood insert also have a mortise or is it just the hardware? It’s tough to tell in the picture.


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Post 22 Mar 2020, 21:05 • #13 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8931
Location: US-ME
Sorry guys. It's a $50 rod someone wants to get in business. The simplest way is the way to start. That doesn't preclude the other suggestions, but none of them may be necessary. Once-loosened glue and dimensional instability of the wood insert may well be the reason the forward hood rotated to begin with. If it did, it will again and can be easily reglued. Trying to see the angles, like wjude did on a second look, if the rear hardware is out of line in a way that matters, it may well loosen in the same way described, such that there is still no need to remove the insert itself. Heating the whole seat isn't necessary. Just quick high heat on the hardware, which can be easily reglued. After that, wjude has it, or simply repositioning the first two guides like archfly said.

I don't think its worth cost of professional replacement, but let us know what did or didn't work.


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Post 23 Mar 2020, 05:12 • #14 
Guide
Joined: 03/24/13
Posts: 149
Location: Black Forest, Germany
Thanks guys! The wood insert is perfectly round/cylindrical, no mortise to accommodate the reel. The hood that is attached to the grip is not in line with the opposing part on the other end of the wood insert where the screw thread is left out to accommodate the reel. The gap in the screw thread being more off with regard to the alignment of the guides. What do you mean by quick heat? Heat gun/hair dryer as opposed to the plastic bag in the pot?

P.S.: great instructive video!


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Post 23 Mar 2020, 10:04 • #15 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8931
Location: US-ME
I just mean short applications of the most convenient directional heat source you have. The idea is to heat the part, expand it, and release the glue and remove the part quickly, so very little heat is transferred to anything else. The glue may be weak to begin with, so even a run under hot tap water or jet of steam from a kettle. If it's the rear hardware that needs to come off, rotation in a flame from a butane lighter or gas stove might work. It looks to me like, as is common for the type, a separate plug/cap is glued in to the hardware. So if you want to be really gingerly about it--and can see that it is a separate cap, you could try the quick-heat idea just on that first. If that comes easily, the rest will.

This is all to avoid disturbing/removing the wood insert and removing the whole seat. If it doesn't work easily, you have the next method well described above.

Plus if you happen to damage the seat or the bank, or you want a different seat anyhow, one of those experts can fix you right up.


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Post 17 Aug 2020, 07:48 • #16 
Guide
Joined: 03/24/13
Posts: 149
Location: Black Forest, Germany
Hi! This is an update. I thought you might like to know how it went. I used the plastic-bag-boling-water-method. The butt cap and the barrel with the thread came off easily after 2 minutes. Encouraged, I thought I might also try to get the other half of the reel seat that sits just below and in the grip. No chance. Ended up boiling the lower half of the grip for 20 min without the plastic bag. No movement whatsoever. Before getting angrier, I told myself to stop. Experience with myself that I collected over the past decades told me that going further down this road would inevitably lead to nothing but rod destruction. I re-epoxied the threaded barrel and butt cap on. They now sit straight. The part that is attached to the grip is still a bit off. Overall, the reel position has significantly improved. I don not find myself thinking about this when fishing anymore.


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Post 20 Aug 2020, 20:22 • #17 
Master Guide
Joined: 05/16/10
Posts: 815
Location: South of Houston, TX
Thanks for the update! So nice to hear how it worked out. I’m glad you’re able to fish with it happily now.


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Post 22 Aug 2020, 07:47 • #18 
Guide
Joined: 11/23/17
Posts: 314
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA
I have absolutely no experience with St Croix rods but I’m curious, is there any chance the rod wasn’t a St Croix built rod? In my early rod building experiences, upper hoods like that were always embedded into the cork grip. Take a look at the model number on the rod, if built from a purchased blank there may be a “B” at the end of the model number. This doesn’t correct the situation but may explain why the alignment wasn’t perfect.

Jeff


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