It is currently 29 Mar 2024, 05:25


Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next New Topic Add Reply
Author Message
Post 16 Sep 2012, 08:05 • #26 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/26/06
Posts: 3837
Location: Northeast Of Heaven
Hello
Thanks guys! I added the text above for the progression of the project this morning.
Dad is a real pistol, I'm very fortunate to have him, he's my hero!
Tight lines and blue project loops
Andy M
ImageImageImageImageImage
Here you can see the use of my little discovery for reel seat shims "3m coban" this stuff works great it's better in my opinion than tape, the epoxy actually penetrates the material all the way down to the blank.
This rod by the way is not being built on spine but rather the straightest plane.
The reason is both the butt and tip have noticeable sets, I used a preformed grip as I have a pile of these and this after all is not a presentation grade rod project, preformed grips are great and you would be surprised at how many rod manufactures use them, the stock pile I have are very old new stock that came from a notable eastern bamboo maker, you may notice that this grip has no filler, when filled and dressed they turn up looking aaa quality.
ImageImageImageImage
The guide set laid out the length plus one for starters they are laid out in progression you can see that the third and forth from the tip look reversed it's just the camera angle and one is not laying flat on the guide board, the sizes are #10 stripper salvaged from the used guide bins 1 @ #4, 4@ #3, 2@ #2, 1@ #1, 1@ # 01 and a fugi inserted tip top that I have way too many of.
This is just a starting point.
ImageImageImageImageImage
I used one of my own guide charts as a starting point and taped on the guides with vinyl pin stripping automotive paint tape, normally I just hold the rod in my hand to do the static test but in order to get photo's I had to incorporate my rod holder that I use to test flex profiles in the shop. As the static test shows changes in the spacing and size progression need to be made, even so the rod casts rather well, I had about a 20 mile an hour breeze but still practically got the rod into the backing with out double hauling, the rod casts a dt 6 weight very well, it loaded quickly, I rigged the rod with a 7 wt the rod loaded too much for my taste but I suspect that most would like the rod with a # 7 , the balance was off as well the reel was a little light so the balance point was at the hook keeper location, I will remove the rubber butt cap and add some weight to the back end to help improve the swing weight, I suspect however with the added weight with the guide size and location changes the rod will favor the #6 line.
The rod will get 2 more guides and the size progression will change.
ImageImageImageImage
Image
At least I know the rod will catch fish ha ha!


Top
  
Quote
Post 16 Sep 2012, 19:34 • #27 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 07/05/10
Posts: 5229
Location: Mid Hudson Valley of New York
Andy, I am enjoying this thread immensely. A wealth of insight, tips, and tricks for rod builders. Thanks for sharing. I can't wait to see the finished product. And I couldn't help thinking, as I was reading your posts, how you remind me of a "mad scientist" at work in the lab -- combining bits and pieces of rods to create something new. I applaud your sense of adventure and innovation, and especially, your willingness to share it all.


Top
  
Quote
Post 18 Sep 2012, 16:39 • #28 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/26/06
Posts: 3837
Location: Northeast Of Heaven
Hello
Not sure I like the mad scientist handle, glad however that my post may be helping.
I'll put these up as I'm shifting between projects right now.
If anyone has questions I'll be glad to answer them, I'll fill in the blanks between pictures as I did above when time permits.
Tight lines and mad rod smith loops ha ha
Andy M
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Looks like the pictures are telling the story, in the past with my remake pictorials I waited for folks to ask questions, surprisingly the questions I expected to be fielding seldom came.
Anyhow as you will see in these pictures I decided that I liked the action or at least determined that trimming the butt section would not improve the feel I was seeking, with very little heat the brass ferrule came back off, the pliers are made of brass they are from p. P. E. Plastic process equipment inc. Leftovers from my former professional carrier as a plastic process engineer & mold tool designer, I have several brass tools that I use around the shop they don't scratch what they come in contact with, as you can see the i. D. Of the ferrule remains rather clean with a little brushing with the brass brush above the piece will be ready to be refit, as you see I cut and reworked the original butt section ferrule station to craft a ferrule shim, you have to be careful in keeping the drill centered or you will have a dog eared ferrule, the wall thickness must be uniform, usually I have the vacuum sucking up the tailings but I wanted you to see how much material was removed.
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Sorry for all the ferrule pictures but I wanted to make sure I covered the process for you as you will not find this technique mentioned or detailed anywhere else that I know of, as I mentioned I usually do my static testing by hand so after the ferrule was permanently set I did another static test, in the pictures below shown with the white tape is the proposed new guide locations, the guides were then removed and re-taped in the new locations, note that I used the Phillipson method with a guide either side of the ferrule , tweeked , test cast tweeked again then ready for wrapping, sorry I didn't show all that but without an photographer taking the pictures as I did the work it was senseless to try and cover, besides I'm sure you all get the idea.
Image
Image
Image
Image
The new guide set plus one, as I mount the guides for wrapping one at a time I'll site down the blank after each guide is wrapped and may tweek the size progression, that will depend on what I see, sorry folks that's one you only get a hint on.
Image
Image
Image
Image
As you can see I'm cleaning up the residue from the fiberglass thread that was used earlier also some thread dust from the last rod, we should clean our tension devices after each rod or at least blow them out, I can't tell you how many times I have heard rod tinkers complaining about thread when the problem wasn't the thread just the lack of good shop common sense or preventative maintenance of wrapping equipment, when you start seeing the beginning of thread groves in the chrome plating it's time to polish them.
Image
Image
Image
Another tip for open wraps as you complete the wrap apply a coat of finish before you do the next wrap, nothing worse than shifted thread, it's really difficult to get them back to where they belong after they move, in the case of this rod I'm using ncp size a gold and size a cp blood red so I put on a coat of water based color preserver to keep things put, if I were using all cp thread I would tack the wraps down with permagloss.
Image
Image
That's all for this segment more later, feel free to ask questions.


Last edited by The Glass Master on 19 Sep 2012, 08:13, edited 2 times in total.

Top
  
Quote
Post 18 Sep 2012, 19:38 • #29 
Master Guide
Joined: 01/10/09
Posts: 499
Location: US-PA
Andy, wonderful thread you have here, don't know how I missed it!


Top
  
Quote
Post 18 Sep 2012, 20:33 • #30 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 10/30/09
Posts: 2527
Location: Winston-Salem, NC
That's food for the visual learner right there! Thanks!


Top
  
Quote
Post 19 Sep 2012, 08:35 • #31 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/26/06
Posts: 3837
Location: Northeast Of Heaven
Hello
Thanks guys glad to share!
That's all for now the rods are calling ha ha
Tight lines and shared loops
Andy M


Top
  
Quote
Post 19 Sep 2012, 13:30 • #32 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 07/05/10
Posts: 5229
Location: Mid Hudson Valley of New York
Andy, I meant that in a good way!


Top
  
Quote
Post 19 Sep 2012, 13:34 • #33 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/26/06
Posts: 3837
Location: Northeast Of Heaven
Hello pat
I knew that, I was kidding!
Tight lines and :rollin loops
Andy M


Top
  
Quote
Post 20 Sep 2012, 08:58 • #34 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/26/06
Posts: 3837
Location: Northeast Of Heaven
Hello
The rod is coming along at least to the point that I can do more test casting to get the swing weight tuned and balanced.
In these pictures the thread work has 3 coats of color preserver only, I'm not sure if the thread work is done I may add gold tipping to the red base wraps on the tip? next I'll try several different lines and reels on the rod to determine what line weight and balance point suits the rod best, my goal weight has been tossed out the window the rod as pictured is weighing in at a stout 5. 0 oz anyone that tells you that the guides and thread finish etc don't add weight hasn't done their homework, I was surprised on this one by a 1/2 ounce and I still have more weight to add.
Anyways what really matters is how the rod performs so we will see as the conclusion to this portion of the garcia blues is getting close to completion.
I'll load the pictures this morning and add the text later as I did with all of the above.
Tight lines and stout loops
Andy M
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image


Last edited by The Glass Master on 21 Sep 2012, 11:40, edited 1 time in total.

Top
  
Quote
Post 21 Sep 2012, 09:55 • #35 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/26/06
Posts: 3837
Location: Northeast Of Heaven
Hello
The niner is still in the final stages.
This morning I got the rod back out on the dock for more tests.
My pflueger 1495 lined up with a wf 7 was the ticket the rod balanced perfectly and performed well.
The only problem was the rod did not have the accuracy that I strive to have every rod I make possess.
I'm sure that the majority of folks would have not really noticed but the majority of folks don't purchase their rods from custom rod makers either.
The shame of this is too many rod builders don't understand this either, some simply may ignore the important step because it takes too much time besides most consumers don't know the difference or maybe wouldn't notice who knows.
As I reached the last third of the line the rod was tracking more and more to the right hence the casts were becoming harder to control in terms of placing the fly where I wanted it.
I don't know about you but the further out my casts get I like them to be as accurate as possible!
This segment will show why you should always base your build on the spine rather than the apparent straightest plane.
As the pictures will show when the blank is flexed deeply the blank will naturally flex towards the thinnest wall thickness of the blank in this case hard right.
Normally during the mock up stage with the guides taped on I rotate the blank and the guides until the blank tracks straight in line with the grip.
That's what I consider working with the spine or spline "back bone"
I intentionally did not follow that procedure as this project was to help my fellow rod tinkers rather than confuse them, besides I will use this segment in my next rod building class to illustrate to my class the techniques out lined in this thread.
It's not my intention to turn this thread into another discussion on spine you are free to build your rods the way you like best.
Needless to say even with the rod tossing hard right I still managed to fool a small bass,
There will be no need to add weight to the back end the rod likes the 7 wt best in my opinion, however I liked the rod best with a # 6.
The rod will be fine without any more thread embellishments, next will be scripting and final clear coat.
Tight lines and respectfully shown loops
Andy M

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image


Last edited by The Glass Master on 21 Sep 2012, 11:13, edited 1 time in total.

Top
  
Quote
Post 21 Sep 2012, 10:19 • #36 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8920
Location: US-ME
If my hand were further along recovering from recent surgery, I'd have commented sooner on this. Great show, Andy. The Garcia Conolons, modestly priced, even cheap in used condition, seem to have great potential for projects like this, as I found with one I got from Andy and reworked a few years ago. Andy has shown how to get the best out of them or even just various options to experiment with. I don't know if you mentioned it above or not, but the budget for something like this probably comes in under $75, and the rod can perform and look like something worth way more than that. For a hobbyist like me, you learn something every time you try one or look over a project like this. Thanks for showing.

Andy, in between doses of painkiller, I just looked this over again. Fantastic! Those blanks refinish beautifully to the original brown glass. I noticed this time the precaution about steel wool. You know, as a hobbiest, I'm chicken to sand anything aggressively, but I do use 6/0 steel wool and have mentioned that elsewhere. But your precaution/experience, would prevail if I ever gave anyone the wrong idea. I only whisk the surface with it, virtually no pressure, which would avoid the risks you point out. The purpose, though, is never to remove or alter the finish, just to micro dull it for adhesion of a coating, so I guess the problems you named are avoided. I follow with a magnet to remove particles.


Last edited by whrlpool on 25 Sep 2012, 07:27, edited 1 time in total.

Top
  
Quote
Post 21 Sep 2012, 11:43 • #37 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/26/06
Posts: 3837
Location: Northeast Of Heaven
Hey Steve
Glad to see you have been on board!
All my best wishes and prayers for your quick recovery!
Tight lines and mending loops
Your friend andy m


Top
  
Quote
Post 25 Sep 2012, 07:35 • #38 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/26/06
Posts: 3837
Location: Northeast Of Heaven
Hello
It appears nobody else has any questions or comments?
See that allot of folks are still interested by the number of views so we'll continue.
Below you will see the scripting of the 9' 7 wt also some shot's of the rod in the drying cabinet
With the clear coat drying.
Next is the start of the 6'3" 4 wt & the 6' 6" 6 wt, as you will see these both rods will utilize the reel seats salvaged from the original rods, used some preformed grips that were hanging around, we'll re use all the guides from the original rods as well except maybe the tip tops.
Tight lines and phase 2 loops
Andy M
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image


Top
  
Quote
Post 26 Sep 2012, 06:46 • #39 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/26/06
Posts: 3837
Location: Northeast Of Heaven
Hello
The shots below will show the guide clean up and size selection for starters, the epoxy base for the thread being wrapped up from the blank to the grip superfine style.
Tight lines and just for fun loops
Andy M
Image
Image
Image
Image


Top
  
Quote
Post 26 Sep 2012, 07:05 • #40 
Master Guide
Joined: 12/09/11
Posts: 888
Location: Athens GA
Andy, if you don't mind sharing, can you provide some make/model info on the yellow pen you used to mark that one rod? If not, I'll understand.
Thanks, Jim


Top
  
Quote
Post 26 Sep 2012, 09:03 • #41 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/26/06
Posts: 3837
Location: Northeast Of Heaven
Hello jim
I'm happy to share, after all that's what this entire body of work has been about helping and sharing!
The product is called "painters" made by the hunt corporation statesville n. C.
I also have some new tubes that have the same name "painters" and are marked "elmers" columbus o. H.
So the company may have changed hands not really sure?
I hope this helps you with your interesting tinker projects!
Bellow you will see how I level out the 5 min epoxy and get the angle I want for my superfine style grips.
I cut one of my old business cards and use it as an applicator.
Tight lines and shared loops
Andy M
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image


Top
  
Quote
Post 26 Sep 2012, 10:30 • #42 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8920
Location: US-ME
That's a great "how-to" series of photos, Andy, plus it shows the rich character and beauty of those Garcia Conolon blanks once cleaned up and refinished--better than new, better than just about anything to say "classic 'glass." And then the tapered hosel just says it again. I forget where that style was first commonly seen or how prevalent over the years. Do you think it was always a touch that hinted "custom" crafted? I do know I made one about 35 years ago; it came out pretty sharp looking, but for some reason (not appearance or durability) I don't remember, I changed it a few years later. They are hard to wrap flawlessly as shown. Well, the attraction of them is self-evident from the photos, but can you think of a downside for the style for a certain rod type? Not those, for sure. Thanks for showing. Just a great series.


Top
  
Quote
Post 26 Sep 2012, 10:59 • #43 
Master Guide
Joined: 12/09/11
Posts: 888
Location: Athens GA
Thanks, Andy, I'll start looking for them. I found a good black ink pen but nothing in lighter colors. Jim


Top
  
Quote
Post 26 Sep 2012, 15:34 • #44 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 10/31/06
Posts: 1262
Location: Mid- coast Maine
HA! you found a use for blue thread.
FRMcD


Top
  
Quote
Post 26 Sep 2012, 16:10 • #45 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/26/06
Posts: 3837
Location: Northeast Of Heaven
Hello
Just counted I have 38 spools of blue thread in different shades my least sought after color.
The last time a guy asked for blue I talked him out of it!
This blue matches the reel seat very well, blue garcia with a blue reel seat gotta have blue wraps I figured.
Who knows maybe it will start a new trend then I can unload all that blue thread?
Now the big problem is to find a blue fly reel to match ha ha!
Tight lines and new blue trend loops
Andy M


Top
  
Quote
Post 26 Sep 2012, 16:27 • #46 
Guide
Joined: 09/20/09
Posts: 319
Location: US-MN
Hi Andy-

Another amazing rod, what a transformation!

Thank you for posting!

Doug


Top
  
Quote
Post 26 Sep 2012, 19:55 • #47 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 07/05/10
Posts: 5229
Location: Mid Hudson Valley of New York
Andy, I've been following this thread and just wanted to let you know how much I appreciate your sharing on the forum. As an amateur rod builder, I find this kind of thread the most fun to read.

Great pictures of how you built the superfine. Great looking grip. I've been wanting to try one of these on a home build but couldn't figure out the best way to do it.

Did you taper the grip after it was glued to the blank? For the epoxy ramp, did you let the 5min epoxy harden before wrapping it with thread? At the point where the wraps end and the cork begins, how did you get the thread the same height as the cork? Does the thread "bite" into the epoxy base? Or does it lay on top.

Sorry for so many questions!


Top
  
Quote
Post 27 Sep 2012, 07:45 • #48 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/26/06
Posts: 3837
Location: Northeast Of Heaven
Hello
Good morning glad to see more questions!
I'll address the questions in the order starting with whirlpools.

"i forget where that style was first commonly seen or how prevalent over the years. Do you think it was always a touch that hinted "custom" crafted?"
I first saw them on Phillipson rods back in the 70's, the Phillipsons were made with a cone shaped piece of aluminum sort of a big winding check, sometimes they were just used plain with no over wrap mostly on the fiberglass rods, when used on the Phillipson bamboo rods they were more often over wrapped, I wouldn't say it was something only seen on custom rods, just a good look?
Then Orvis started making a more slender version by turning down the cork to what they dubbed "superfine" at that point they became more popular, other makers such as vince Cummings and others had their own versions.
I recently saw a Cummings rod picture somewhere here that originally had a superfine style grip that was altered during a restoration, the idea was that with
Finesse rods in the lower line weights the fisherman could comfortably place their index finger forward to aid in the control of the fly presentation for a finer feel.

"but can you think of a downside for the style for a certain rod type? not those, for sure. "
I don't see a down side really except those that don't have an over wrap tend crack overtime and the cork breaks away.

"thanks, andy, I'll start looking for them. I found a good black ink pen but nothing in lighter colors. Jim"

Jim try your local hardware store of craft store.

Great to see you on board doug thanks for all your kindness!

Yes rat face I have found a home for blue thread ha ha gotta love it.

"did you taper the grip after it was glued to the blank? for the epoxy ramp, did you let the 5min epoxy harden before wrapping it with thread? at the point where the wraps end and the cork begins, how did you get the thread the same height as the cork? does the thread "bite" into the epoxy base? or does it lay on top"

Pat good questions all!
Very glad to see you are still on board
The grip is a lower quality preformed grip that came in with a bunch of stuff I picked up on eBay for the reel seats and thread, the bore was about 3/8" I drilled them out and then reamed them to fit, during that process the wall in the front became kinda thin, so I glued them on the blanks then filled them and turned them some to clean them up, I dressed the front taper down some,
The reason I decided to do the epoxy build up was to strengthen them and get the superfine style of sorts, they actually are more like the Phillipson style hosel in my opinion.

The epoxy was actually done in two steps, first I laid down a base of 5 min epoxy and shaped it, the epoxy was left to cure up overnight, a second coat was then applied and left to cure again overnight you want to make sure the epoxy is fully cured before you attempt to over wrap.

As we all know cork is soft and compresses so you need to wrap up the hosel when you get to the edge of the epoxy you need to do the wraps over the cork by feel, what I do is when I get lets say 10 rotations from the cork I take the thread out of the tension device, from that point I work by feel watching to not have the thread compress the cork any more than the diameter if the thread for a flush finish.

The thread should not bite into the epoxy only slightly into the cork at the finish of the wrap.
As soon as I pull the thread trough the loop and cut it flush I apply thread finish to keep it all put.

Tight lines and great fun loops
Andy M

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image


Top
  
Quote
Post 27 Sep 2012, 13:59 • #49 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/12/07
Posts: 1292
Location: western Massachusetts
Andy, this is like seriously living vicariously! But it does remind me that I have not tried that cork wrap yet.

Please stop it with the blue thread, every time I see it on a brown blank, it gives me a headache. :lol

Question: What do you use the Duco cement for? I know it's in the pictures, but I can't figure it out. :o


Top
  
Quote
Post 27 Sep 2012, 15:04 • #50 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/26/06
Posts: 3837
Location: Northeast Of Heaven
Hello
John I know what you mean I guess I'm stuck with the blue, so much for starting a new trend ha ha, funny though one of my favorite dare I say "graphite" rods I wrapped with this same blue with no cp strange I know but "what's normal"?
Now for the duco cement it was used to glue the orange foam rubber dust plug in the end of the blank before I ferruled the blank.
I love the stuff I also use duco to glue winding checks in place and it works great fixing the occasional broken coffee cup , when I am tying flies "like I ever get the time ha ha" I use it quite often.
Tight lines and sticky loops
Andy M


Top
  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  

Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next New Topic Add Reply



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Google
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group