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Post 11 Sep 2012, 07:41 • #1 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/26/06
Posts: 3837
Location: Northeast Of Heaven
Hello
Just for fun.
I was going through my used materials pile yesterday when I realized I had a number of nice sections of garcia 2 star blue blanks.
Decided to strip all the sections of hardware before jumping into a remake.
It seems we have quite a bit of rod remake interest recently.
This project hopefully will help you with your do overs.

One of the things we all need to remember is that it is possible that we can take a rod remake to other levels.
By this I mean that we don't have to remake a rod letting the original design or action dictate the end result, however we can alter the rod and improve the performance a number of ways.

I'll start this with yet another segment of removing the hardware an initial tear down pictorial.
Note this also shows a couple of pictures of what can happen in a split second slip of the knife.

Tight lines and 2 star loops
Andy M



[missing images are named: BlueGarcia2Star003.jpg - BlueGarcia2Star031.jpg "Admin" can replace these, if you send them to him.]


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Post 11 Sep 2012, 09:21 • #2 
Master Guide
Joined: 09/21/09
Posts: 369
Location: US-TX
Thanks for starting this post Andy. This is going to be very helpful to me as I'm going to take the plunge into building my own rods, again. Curious as to why you cut the reel seats off instead of just removing them.


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Post 11 Sep 2012, 09:32 • #3 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 10/30/09
Posts: 2527
Location: Winston-Salem, NC
Andy, thanks for the lessons and lessons learned!


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Post 11 Sep 2012, 10:16 • #4 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/26/06
Posts: 3837
Location: Northeast Of Heaven
Hello
Glad to help when I can.
Wanted to retain the fly rod reel seats for reuse.
When I tried to get them both off neither would budge with minimal heat, I decided it best to just cut them off rather than risk distorting them with excess heat.
I find that when they don't come off easy they are going to bears to get off, most times when they are bears they end up taking more time than they are worth to get off, often they get buggered up in the process as well.
This way they are both in great shape and little time was spent removing them.
I'll leave them as is for now, before it's time to refit them I'll address the cut offs.
The spinning rod seat that I don't particularity care about came off with no problem.
Just the way it goes sometimes I guess.
Tight lines and chopped loops
Andy M


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Post 11 Sep 2012, 15:03 • #5 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/12/07
Posts: 1292
Location: western Massachusetts
Hey Andy, great tutorial start!

X-acto knives should come with 20 hrs. of health and safety training. They are the most dangerous knives you can use-they are light and super sharp. Before you know it the blade has jumped over the work and you are cutting yourself. Sometimes I think those break-away razor knives are better to use for most rodbuilding applications. I usually reserve the x-acto for cutting single thickness of paper or decals, or single strands of winding thread-nothing more.


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Post 11 Sep 2012, 18:07 • #6 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/26/06
Posts: 3837
Location: Northeast Of Heaven
Hello
I think I have had my 20 hours of training with x -acto knives and have the scars to prove it ha ha, this just goes to show that even guys that have logged several thousand hours with them can still have an accident. They are one of my favorite tools I have at least a 1/2 dozen of them all set up with different blades, I also like surgical scalpels, razor blades and other sharp instruments, the sharper the better.
When I get around to wrapping the rod maybe I'll use blood red thread.
The reason I posted the pictures were to show what can happen even when you do work safe.
Tight lines and bloody loops
Andy M


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Post 11 Sep 2012, 19:32 • #7 
Master Guide
Joined: 12/09/11
Posts: 888
Location: Athens GA
This has the potential to become a classic thread.
Have you thought about adding a section dedicated to "What not to do?" or "Don't try this:"
Jim


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Post 11 Sep 2012, 20:02 • #8 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/26/06
Posts: 3837
Location: Northeast Of Heaven
Hello
Now that's really :rollin funny!
Tight lines and comic loops
Andy M


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Post 11 Sep 2012, 21:45 • #9 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 01/02/12
Posts: 1859
Location: Gig Harbor, WA
Andy - your pictures/threads are always something I enjoy. For the neophyte rod builder that I am, they are a great tutorial and inspiration. Roy


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Post 12 Sep 2012, 00:43 • #10 
Sport
Joined: 08/18/08
Posts: 62
Location: US-MA
I still have the blue-blank Garcia Conolon 7'3" fly rod that I fished as a boy fifty years ago, and now I am happier than ever that it remains reasonably intact and fishable as is. However, I will be very interested to see what can be done using these recycled blanks as a starting point.


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Post 12 Sep 2012, 10:15 • #11 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/26/06
Posts: 3837
Location: Northeast Of Heaven
Hello
Welcome guys glad to have you all on board.
As all ways lets all have some fun with this, any questions just ask I'll do my best to answer.

First I have to admit I don't like wet paint removers "strippers" for a couple of reasons.
First is they are messy, they stink and most importantly because most fiberglass rod blanks are porous thus the stripper gets imbedded in the blank.
That's fine I guess for most and you can certainly wash the blanks afterward etc.

Another problem with them is when you clear coat or repaint the blank they have a tendency to compromise the new finish.
If I am just removing a clear coat finish I use denatured alcohol, or acetone as they do a good job and evaporate fully.
They do no harm to the blank fibers they store these materials in fiberglass containers fiberglass was used in air plane drop tanks with high octane airplane fuel remember..

In the long run I find with paint the best method that I have found is dry sanding the material off.

Now this is not recommended unless you are set up properly and you must take safety precautions.
For example if I'm going to sand a number of blanks to alter the action I move the entire operation outside.

In this case of just a few sections I do it in the shop and use a vacuum to pick up the dust.
You can see I have fashioned a nozzle holder out of an old iron book end.
I ware a dust mask naturally I also run a second large vac in the space as an air scrubber of sorts as dust is not rod shop friendly.

On a side note I'm constantly cleaning my shop it's madding at times but a clean work space produces clean work is my motto.

Many moons ago when I first started dressing glass rod blanks I used a power drill clamped in a vise outside on the picnic table it worked just fine so you can perform this task with what you have on hand, just be careful as I have had blanks shatter and there is nothing worse than trying to pick out fiberglass shards from the palm of your hand etc.

So always ware safety glasses as well leather gloves are good too but I like to feel the blank it's important for me.

I use 80 grit, 150 grit, 220 grit, 400 grit and then scotch bright.
Never steel wool!

As I'm sure you all realize I'm not posting this in real time, the project is well beyond this point.
It's the only way to do this sort of thing.
When I got these sections stripped I began to experiment with the flex profiles of the different sections to see what I could do with these rather than a simple remake of the original rod or rods.
In doing so I decided that I needed more sections so I added a butt section from an old 8' St Croix. And the short tip section from the same rod it was broken 5" up from the ferrule.

So what we are going to end up with is 3 rods a 6" 4" garcia both sections a 6'2"garcia butt and St Croix tip, and last but not least a 9'8" plus or minus the jury still out nymph rod with a St Croix butt section and garcia tip.

Here are the pictures of the dressing process.

Tight lines and dressed rather than stripped loops.
Andy M

ImageImageImageImageImage


Last edited by The Glass Master on 12 Sep 2012, 15:10, edited 2 times in total.

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Post 12 Sep 2012, 10:50 • #12 
Master Guide
Joined: 04/06/12
Posts: 578
Location: Winter Haven, Florida
A work bench 10 feet from a lake. Can't beat that!

Rick


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Post 12 Sep 2012, 12:10 • #13 
Master Guide
Joined: 12/09/11
Posts: 888
Location: Athens GA
"A work bench 10 feet from a lake. Can't beat that!"

I didn't notice that until you pointed it out. If I were to be so fortunate to have such a setup, I doubt I'd ever be in the shop.
Envious in GA, Jim


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Post 12 Sep 2012, 13:53 • #14 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/26/06
Posts: 3837
Location: Northeast Of Heaven
Hello
This topic is about remaking a fiberglass rod or 2 or 3 not my diggs.
So lets stay on topic.
I will say this however.
I learned how to cast a fly rod out there at the ripe old age of 6.
Yes I am fortunate, often I set up out on the dock for rod samplings and such.
Lawn casting tells you very little of how a rod will best perform on the water.
Catching fish like these ones will also give you a pretty good perspective on how the rods going to perform.
When someone comes around shopping for a rod it's always good to see if they actually need a rod or they just need some casting pointers.
That's not properly done on the lawn either.
The young guy in the first and last photo's is my dad!
He is a master fly fisherman! I'm fortunate to still have him, he's my quality assurance guy. When I come up with one of my new rod concepts he's the first one after my self to cast them.
If dad says the rod stinks it stinks rest assured.
We respectfully call him "inspector grey hair"
Tight lines and back to the topic loops
Andy M

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Post 12 Sep 2012, 13:59 • #15 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 07/05/10
Posts: 5229
Location: Mid Hudson Valley of New York
Hey Andy, what was that comment about staying on topic? Oh ... wait a minute, uh ... whose thread is this?

Those are some hefty bass you're hoisting. Very nice. ;)

9'8"? that one sounds like a monster.


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Post 12 Sep 2012, 14:29 • #16 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/26/06
Posts: 3837
Location: Northeast Of Heaven
Hello pat
The 9'8" + or - will be the most interesting rod provided it turns out as planned, the rod blank weighs in at just a tad under 2. 5 oz stripped and dressed with 2 coats of clear.
The goal here is to make a 9' + glass rod that's not a monster.
The blank measurements are tip 5. 0 the tip at the ferrule 00. 309" the butt 00. 475" I'm going to extend the butt some I'll know by how much when I re ferrule the blank.
I'll also know the finished length at that point but I'm not ready for that yet.
I'm working on this in between paying projects so it's a little here and a little later and so on.
Tight lines and back on topic loops.
Andy M


Last edited by The Glass Master on 12 Sep 2012, 14:53, edited 1 time in total.

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Post 12 Sep 2012, 14:35 • #17 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/23/05
Posts: 4966
Location: US-MT
Hey Andy looks like great fun ... fill me in, why not steel wool?

And oh my gosh you are good at posting pics, takes me forever usually. Jeesh, tough being old in a new world ...
Keith


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Post 12 Sep 2012, 15:04 • #18 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/26/06
Posts: 3837
Location: Northeast Of Heaven
Hello
Steel wool has a tendency to pull up the fibers of the blank, steel wool also can get you broken fingers when it bites the spinning blank, steel wool leaves tiny metal fibers imbedded in the blank, steel wool adds to the dust handling challenges, when I strip bamboo sections wet I like steel wool for fiberglass no.

Thanks for the compliment!
In the last bunch those were all old pictures I had saved in photo bucket.
I remember when I had to have help posting pictures, bulldog posted them for me jeesh that seems like a lifetime ago brrr.

Tight lines and no steel loops
Andy M


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Post 12 Sep 2012, 15:44 • #19 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/23/05
Posts: 4966
Location: US-MT
And that bullhead is making me hungry :) :)


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Post 12 Sep 2012, 17:08 • #20 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 07/05/10
Posts: 5229
Location: Mid Hudson Valley of New York
Andy I love it --- a great thread -- but that "niner" really has me hooked. I can't wait to see more!


Last edited by picketpin52 on 12 Sep 2012, 20:37, edited 1 time in total.

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Post 12 Sep 2012, 17:32 • #21 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 10/31/06
Posts: 1262
Location: Mid- coast Maine
Andy, the story of my life, "The paying gig interferes with the fun projects" If I didn't like to eat and stay warm I wouldn't work a lick.
RFMcD


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Post 13 Sep 2012, 08:43 • #22 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/26/06
Posts: 3837
Location: Northeast Of Heaven
Hello
Know the suspense is mounting, I'm pressed for time today.
I'll load these pictures then just answer your questions.
Tight lines and lots of pictured loops
Andy M

Image
I have a little time this morning so I will fill in some of the blanks pun intended.
In these first few pictures you will see the "niner" blank after 2 coats of clear polyurethane was applied by dip method, after dressing the blanks are first blown off with compressed air out doors of course then wiped down with denatured alcohol before they are dipped, during the wipe down the blanks are closely inspected for any imperfections etc any issues are addressed such as raised fiber or such.
The reason for this naturally is you want to keep your dip tubes clean! so it's very important to make sure the blanks are clean before you dip them or you will contaminate your material.
I like the dip method because it fully soaks the blank fibers and seals and bonds them.
That doesn't really happen fully with finger tip, brush or spray applications.
The dip finish is the most uniform also the best looking!
The turkey baster or dribble method works equally well but you waste allot of expensive material.
If you only plan to do a blank or two it's a very good method.
When the first coat is still tacky I dip the blank for the second coat that eliminates sanding between coats.
If the blank has small drips or imperfections in the first coat I'll let it cure for 2 days address the blips dress lightly with scotch bright then dip the blank again.
The sections are placed in my drying cabinet for 2 days after the second coat.
It's basically a converted old gun cabinet with a 60 watt light bulb at the base for heat and a thermometer, next to it sits a dehumidifier that controls the humidity for the shop.
The blanks weight naked was 2. 5 oz. With the 2 coats of poly it's about 2. 8 oz.
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The St Croix butt section was down right ugly when naked.
With brown being the most popular blanks color I decided to paint the blank.
When ever you paint a blank you add weight, hopefully? when finished the rod will come in around 4. 5 oz.
There's lots of ways to paint a blank I like air brush best I like automotive paint the best.
That was not in this rods budget. $$$

the goal here is after all to help the home builders whom by they way I have the deepest respect for as I am from kitchen table roots myself.!

I had this can of paint on the shelf I used it to paint the air registers in the house last year so it's brown and suited for plastic so why not right?
I scuffed up the clear coat a little with scotch bright wiped them down with a dry cloth blew them off and hung them from the porch floor joice's on nails with spring clamps.
I sprayed them following normal rattle can procedures allowed the first coat to tack and applied a second coat.
ImageImageImageImageImage
Okay now I'm sure you folks have picked up on the fact the the diameter of the butt section is considerably less than that of the tip at the ferrule. I selected the sr croix butt section for just that reason, the point of this segment after all is to alter the original rod action from a 9' fast action 9 weight into a 9' + or - 6 weight slow action semi parabolic nymph rod.
To achieve this the St Croix was the best choice based on prior knowledge of how best to make this happen.
By doing this the blank will be forced to flex deeper into the butt that will create a hinge or lever effect. "parabolic"
I could have joined the sections with a tip over butt union, that however would have defeated the goal.
A spigot ferrule would have been possible.
I see way to often metal ferrules being switched out for spigots that's great but not always called for.
The logical choice was the original garcia brass chrome plated ferrule.
If I had a step down or aluminum ferrule of the proper size I would have used them but this project is going to use up the original hardware or stuff that's hanging around the shop not really suitable for my custom rods. "done on the cheap" but done right.
Besides this is a re-purpose kind of project anyways.

ImageImageImageImageImageImageImage
Alright I'm sure these pictures are quite self explanatory, at this point I know that I have to join these two sections but I'm not certain if I have the rod action I'm going after, I know this is going to be the ferrule used but I may want to trim the butt section back some at the ferrule.
The only way to find out is to join them, get the reel seat and grip on , tape on some guides and play with it.
So for now I used fiberglass thread to build up the blank at the ferrule.
I plugged the end with foam rubber tube used for tying flies to keep the epoxy from getting inside the blank and epoxied on the female ferrule.
The same for the male.
Now I have heard people talk about using hot glue and ferrule cement but I find that epoxied ferrules come off with about the same amount of heat and clean up easier.
The female ferrule is temporarily set in these pictures.
If the blank doesn't need to be trimmed I'll remove the ferrule anyhow remove the thread and make a fiberglass shim and reset the ferrule.
We will get back to this later.
When reusing metal ferrules as you can see they clean up nice I actually like the brass look and when they tarnish they look better in my opinion.
Always clean the id.
ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage
Here I'm sizing the 2 piece butt extension the first internal piece is extended up to the approximate area of what I call the sweet spot where the rod balances, this will add a little punch
To the butt, sort of the same effect you feel with swelled butt cane rods, the second piece is reinforcement for the reel seat those diminished diameter butt extensions are good if you are trying to reduce the od for a wood insert but with the aluminum seats I like the added insurance.
The reel seat is an old garcia seat I pulled off a rod a number of years ago, at a later date I was going to use it on a spinning rod so I cut out the butt hood, I didn't us it and it's been sitting around for about 12 years, so this is a good fit for it, I added a rubber butt cap to close the whole and give the rod some bounce ha ha.
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On the scale with paint and ferrules we are now around 3. 8 oz
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I started this project when I had a little spare time in between other projects, over the last couple of days I've been fortunate to get more work in, so this will need to go on hold, I'll pick up where I left off when time permits, I'll be glad to answer your questions etc but the actual work needs to be put aside.
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The blanks are all prepped next will be mocking them up, tweaking the action. Determining guide size and placement and so on.
Tight lines and the fun is on hold for now loops
Andy M


Last edited by The Glass Master on 14 Sep 2012, 11:09, edited 6 times in total.

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Post 13 Sep 2012, 10:50 • #23 
Master Guide
Joined: 04/06/12
Posts: 578
Location: Winter Haven, Florida
Beautiful work here, Andy. Thanks for sharing it. For my project I'm going to try the "dip my finger in the varnish and rub it on the blank" technique that I've heard others talk about. I assume the rods that were hanging vertically were drying from some sort of finish application. What finish do you use and how do you apply it?

Thanks.

Rick


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Post 13 Sep 2012, 11:12 • #24 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 05/30/07
Posts: 2342
Location: Arlington, TX
Andy,
Those photos of your dad took me back to times with my dad and my granfather ... Those memories last a lifetime.

Les


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Post 14 Sep 2012, 08:09 • #25 
Master Guide
Joined: 12/09/11
Posts: 888
Location: Athens GA
Looking great, as always.
Noticed the slide rule in one of the photos -- good to see it still in use.
Jim


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