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Translucent wraps
Post 16 Apr 2011, 01:32 • #1 
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Joined: 03/17/11
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I am getting ready to build my first rod and am wondering how to do translucent wraps. I really like the way the guides look when you can see the feet. Can you all give me some direction and tips?


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Translucent wraps
Post 16 Apr 2011, 01:53 • #2 
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Joined: 08/30/08
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Location: Lincoln,CA
Are you talking transluscent or clear? Standard nylon or silk thread will go transuscent with no color preserver. You need to use white or natural silk to get the clear look. We can lay out the procedure if this is what you are after.

Mike


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Translucent wraps
Post 16 Apr 2011, 23:58 • #3 
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Joined: 03/17/11
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Clear, however I also like the translucent with shades of colors. I would like to know how to do both. From what I have picked up on this site the translucent ones seem to be silk with no color preserver added but I am really not sure. i have no idea at all how to do the clear.


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Translucent wraps
Post 17 Apr 2011, 02:54 • #4 
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Joined: 06/10/09
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Location: US-OH
Doing clear or translucent wraps is easy. The harder part is getting them totally free of shimmers which are micro air bubbles. What Roadking says is right. A lot has been written about clear wraps and avoiding shimmers on this forum, Clarks bamboo forum, and the rodbuilding forum -- so you should do some reading. In a nutshell, the professional builders seem to like thinning the first coat of epoxy to get full penetration to avoid the shimmers. Some have said that YLI silk is easier to avoid shimmers than silk by Pearsall's which is a harder and more tightly wound silk thread. If you want translucent wraps with a little color to them, go with the light color silk threads (again with no color preserver). Above all, you need to do some experiments with the thread and epoxy (or varnish) you've chosen by doing test wraps on the section of the blank that will be covered by the grip and reel seat -- you can then remove the tests before you start your build. Or you can ask the supplier of your blank if he has any scraps to do test wraps on. Good luck.


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Translucent wraps
Post 17 Apr 2011, 03:08 • #5 
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This should get you started on clear wraps using epoxy and silk. Substitute the acetone for denatured alcohol, it works the same and is less hazardous to your health. Check out the rest of the "how to" tips on rodbuildingforum.com.

Doug


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Translucent wraps
Post 17 Apr 2011, 14:29 • #6 
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Joined: 08/24/08
Posts: 312
Location: Malaysia
Follow the link that Doug attached. It work just as it said.. Image

Image

Image

fango


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Translucent wraps
Post 18 Apr 2011, 01:04 • #7 
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Joined: 04/15/06
Posts: 804
Location: Fayetteville, NC
Don't forget that the first step for great looking clear/translucent wraps is good preparation of your guide feet. They will be high lighted by this method, so take the extra time to make them equal length, equally tapered, and colored back to the surface color (if using dark guides). Chrome guides are easiest, gold (TiN) the hardest to match. I'd also recommend (since this will be your first build) that you practice some wraps on scrap blank or the butt section where your grip/seat will be covering to get the hang of working with silk thread. If you plan to use varnish instead of epoxy finish, you'll need some artist grade walnut alkyd to mix with varnish for your first two (pre) coats. Another tip--"natural" white silk will turn out more perfectly clear than usual bright white. YLI makes it, but I don't remember the color chart number at the moment.
CC


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Translucent wraps
Post 18 Apr 2011, 02:06 • #8 
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Joined: 08/30/08
Posts: 659
Location: Lincoln,CA

I think a lot of people have learned from Chris Carlins tutorial! It works great. And pay attention to the part where he says to go slow and apply with a bodkin or similar. Keeping bubbles out around the guide feet is much easier than GETTING them out. Practice wrapping and show us what you get.

Mike



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Translucent wraps
Post 18 Apr 2011, 09:37 • #9 
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Good for you if you want to try silk for your first build. I think for absolute "clear" wraps, it's probably necessary to use silk. Translucent wraps that retain a hint of the original color or take on a slightly darker hint of the blank color are much easier using size A nylon, so long as the initial finish is thinned and warmed (if using spar varnish). Now you have the durability of nylon thread wraps, not to mention the ease of wrapping them by comparison to silk. Tan goes almost completely clear; the paler and lighter the thread color, the closer to clear it will get, but it depends a little on the color of the blank. (Yellow on a yellow blank, for example, will look more or less clear.) Of course as with silk, no color preserver is used.


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Translucent wraps
Post 19 Apr 2011, 02:24 • #10 
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Joined: 08/30/08
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Location: Lincoln,CA
Stay away from the white nylon, it will turn a milky clear color. not very attractive. I think Whirpool is trying to tell you to try nylon first, silk is harder to wrap! OK, I'm not as diplomatic! If you are gonna try silk, practice a bunch first. Silk is not cheap, either. You can get very nice results with nylon.

Mike


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Translucent wraps
Post 23 Apr 2011, 03:09 • #11 
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Joined: 06/11/05
Posts: 550
Location: Boulder,MT
Here are acouple of pics of clear wraps

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image


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Translucent wraps
Post 23 Apr 2011, 03:12 • #12 
Master Guide
Joined: 08/30/08
Posts: 659
Location: Lincoln,CA
Very nice! I always seem to miss a small bubble on the side of a guide foot, yours look flawless. That will give you something to aspire to!

Mike


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Translucent wraps
Post 28 Apr 2011, 17:04 • #13 
New Member
Joined: 03/17/11
Posts: 15
Thanks to all for your insight. I think I will try the nylon wraps first. Alos, thanks so much for the pictures, they are an inspiration. Again, thanks.


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Translucent wraps
Post 29 Apr 2011, 01:00 • #14 
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Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8920
Location: US-ME
Hope you enjoy your build and its outcome. You can always do more. Tastes change, and so does the appearance according to outdoor lighting conditions. Plus you don't look anyway when fishing, except an impressionistic macro appearance as opposed to the micro we see here all the time.

As we see from another discussion, it's questionable whether CP has any significant effect on durability; I've always thought of it as vestigial from the pre-nylon thread days since silk thread does require it for any degree of color consistency. The various appearances of varnish-only (translucent/parent) are a byproduct of eliminating an unneeded step in wrapping and finishing. As for aesthetics, just from rods I've built over the years:

Image

Top to bottom

9' Sceptre, late '70s: too solid

8' Montague rebuild, a year or two ago: too richly dark

8 1/2' Sceptre, a winter or two back: too lusterous

Image

8' Paddock/Lami butterscotch, a year or two ago: too somber wraps with too little flavor/character

8 1/2' Fenwick, recently: too little contrast between tipping and main wrap; too much contrast with blank; too little translucency to allow blank to sound into wrap tone

8' Conolon rebuild, a little while ago: too little tranlucence of green wrap

8' Conlon rebuild, more recently than a while ago: too clear

Image

7 1/2' Fisher, two years ago or so: too blotchy

6' Fenwick, during the Daytona 500, but I forget who won: too pale

7 1/2' South Bend refinish, paint and wrap, Talledaga, Brian Vickers, maybe: too too yellowy using yellow thread

Image

8' Fisher, in progress, just the first two coats of thinned varnish: too reddish

8 1/2' Fisher, late '80s: perfect.

My favorite rod ever since, including the wraps, which I haven't touched after more than two decades of use. Nevertheless, when I started the Fisher in progress, it was too long ago for me to remember what thread color produced this result, I didn't want to try too many experiments to get an exact match because I have too much fishing to do and that would have been too picky.


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Re: Translucent wraps
Post 05 Apr 2012, 15:02 • #15 
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Joined: 03/05/10
Posts: 13
Location: US-WA
I've built four rods using Yli #100 white silk with ThreadMaster Lite on it and while it does go virtually invisible there is still a slight milkiness, or faint whiteness, to the wraps. I just finished a Lamiglas 7' 3wt honey and this time decided to try Flex Coat Lite thinned 10% with acetone as suggested by (sorry, I don't remember his name) the Gypsy Rods guy. I can't seem to find it now but he had a post maybe two years ago describing his testing for maximum transparency and Flex Coat Lite thinned was the winner. Well, the wraps turned out a slight faint pink color this time. It's a real bummer. It's not so bad that I'll rebuild this rod but I sure don't want it to happen again. Does anyone know why this happened? The crazy thing is that a friend just finished the same rod using ThreadMaster Lite and his turned out pink too. On my rods with ThreadMaster Lite the wraps do look completely invisible in some light and at certain angles but at as the rod is viewed from other angles that slight milkiness is visible. For you guys that have posted photos where your thread looks nonexistent does it look that way 100% of the time in real life or did you just take the photo from an angle that emphasizes the clearness? I don't like this pink cast at all and hope to never get that result again. The crazy thing is that I've never had it with ThreadMaster but my friend just did. There are already enough problems in the world and pink wraps shouldn't have to be one of them! Has anyone else had this problem? If so, did you discover the reason?


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Re: Translucent wraps
Post 05 Apr 2012, 17:08 • #16 
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Joined: 04/15/06
Posts: 804
Location: Fayetteville, NC
YLI #100 silk in the natural, undyed color (white is dyed that way) will give better results (no milkiness from the thread), but I don't know anything about using Threadmaster finish. I don't recall the color code for natural.
CC


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Re: Translucent wraps
Post 05 Apr 2012, 17:29 • #17 
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Joined: 05/16/10
Posts: 814
Location: South of Houston, TX
I used Carlin's method as well. It was fairly simple to follow, but I didn't master it the first time out. A few too many bubbles. I now use it to avoid the shimmers even with darker threads.


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