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Re: Duncan Briggs
Post 05 May 2020, 11:20 • #26 
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Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19109
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
Trev wrote:
Ron, I was pretty sure it was an add on, but it's fine the way it is til someone else wants these reels, I'll never use them and would not even have lined them and messed with them except for this discussion. Being very thin and cupped it kinda acts as a spring.....

the problem is, it's too much - with the split spring washers, you can spread or compress them to get just what you need, and set-temper so they stay there.
Also not a shop kluge or inspiration, this was a standard Young part from the mid '20s through postwar Condex (No. 375 below).




Looks like McMaster doesn't have brass split spring washers now, but you can do the same thing with a thin bronze wave washer - keep it oiled.
https://www.mcmaster.com/brass-split-sp ... e-washers/


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Re: Duncan Briggs
Post 05 May 2020, 16:18 • #27 
Master Guide
Joined: 05/16/10
Posts: 815
Location: South of Houston, TX
Bulldog,
Would those split washers be the ticket for a medalist that has some play? Or is there another remedy for those reels?


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Re: Duncan Briggs
Post 05 May 2020, 16:53 • #28 
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Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19109
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
If the Medalist wobbles, I would look into the latch to see if the latch bar is worn, and might be replaced - usually, latches act as thrust alignment and eliminate the need for a thrust washer or bearing.
It's usually thumbscrew reels that need this and not having them is why so many thumbscrew reels develop spool wobble, as cone-shaped wear in the spool bushing.

Be careful when you take the Medalist latch cover off, because that frees up the spool pawl and spring.


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Re: Duncan Briggs
Post 05 May 2020, 17:19 • #29 
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Joined: 11/06/17
Posts: 2513
Location: South of Joplin
I think that pawl spring is what absorbs the end play in the spool. Cleaning the pin, spring and shaft can help.


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Re: Duncan Briggs
Post 07 May 2020, 16:12 • #30 
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Joined: 07/11/14
Posts: 1786
Location: urban Colorado
Tups wrote:
Doug in CO. Can you tell us what model South Bend rod you have in your pic? I have an identical in need of restoration. Same grip, seat and wrap colors. Is it 359? What line weight do you use? Thanks.


that's a 359 9', but I rewrapped it - original color was a dowdy brown, I like pale/translucent green and not concerned for this rod, about keeping it near original. 6wt.

The usual guide for the 359s is the ferrule size, 10/64 ferrule on tip generally held to be a 5wt and 11/64 6wt.

I have a 8.5' 359 which is a lovely 5wt, the 9' is 11/64 and better as a 6wt. I'll use 5wt on the 9' when fishing stillwaters where longer casts are usual..


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Re: Duncan Briggs
Post 07 May 2020, 16:15 • #31 
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Joined: 07/11/14
Posts: 1786
Location: urban Colorado
Trev wrote:
Doug, I just went and took my reels apart, the screws are not shouldered, and not pan head. A shoulder would raise the head away from the spool because on my reels at least the spindle is higher that the spool allowing some play with a fully threaded screw.


thanks Trev, interesting. On my instance the spindle is not higher than the spool - I tried the flat non-shouldered screw, and it bound the spool. That ugly little philips-head screw has sloped shoulders. I introduced a plastic washer between it and the spool to reduce play - works well but it is ugly..


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Re: Duncan Briggs
Post 08 May 2020, 21:06 • #32 
Sport
Joined: 05/22/18
Posts: 25
Location: US-VA
bulldog1935 wrote:
Trev, that washer is a field mod.


Respectfully, I disagree. Mildly interestingly, it is also present on this one at http://classicflyrodforum.com/forum/vie ... 545#p71545 (5th pic down).

Other note, I baked the spring today as you say at 350 after reshaping it to provide a little more umph to the click pawl "drag". Improved somewhat but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I was just tinkering. I did it for 20 minutes -- is that enough?


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Re: Duncan Briggs
Post 09 May 2020, 06:15 • #33 
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Joined: 08/10/05
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Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
for a set temper, you only need to soak the temperature, and I usually go 15 min


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Re: Duncan Briggs
Post 09 May 2020, 11:53 • #34 
Sport
Joined: 05/22/18
Posts: 25
Location: US-VA
Thanks.


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Re: Duncan Briggs
Post 06 Aug 2020, 08:47 • #35 
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Joined: 06/25/20
Posts: 136
Location: Easton, PA
Trev wrote:

"Kalahatch Fly Reel" "No 400" "Weber", interestingly the marking on the black reel is at the foot (upside down) and the marking on the silver reel is at the top. They also have differences inside. I'm not sure if the cup washer/shim is original or an add on, it seems a bit tight with it.

The slotted pawl on the silver reel apparently allows the pawl to disengage under very fast out feed and this reel is nearly quiet on reeling but has more drag and more noise than the black reel on out feed to the point of disengagement, it is set LHW and biased that way. the black reel is unbiased in direction. These reels weigh 6.5 ounces.

My Black Kalahtch 400 has the Pawl of your silver reel.



Notice the Brass colored grease! The brass washer is also on mine leading me to believe it is factory.



Small, heavy, plain, Classic looking



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Re: Duncan Briggs
Post 16 Aug 2020, 21:58 • #36 
Master Guide
Joined: 01/08/08
Posts: 695
Location: US-MA
Hey Ron, Long time. You know, I think Trev is right on this (and Baron). I don't think I'm going to be able to dig up the old files but I use to have a mint green (the condition was mint not the color) Duncan Briggs and I'm almost positive that it had that same washer in it. It was convex (or concave I guess if you put it in the opposite way) and had a slight bit of give to it when putting the thumb screw back in place. It worked well enough but I'd prefer a thrust washer like you find on the Youngs because those can be adjusted if needed.
I think my files of that particular reel were on a back-up drive that crashed so they might be lost but it was a neat reel. Definitely had some weight to it. I ended up selling it to our friend Rockthief if I recall correctly.


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Re: Duncan Briggs
Post 16 Aug 2020, 22:31 • #37 
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Joined: 08/10/05
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Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
Steve, you may be misled by the difference between a washer and the washer - if you note my photo of opened Duncan Briggs, it has factory spring washer.
I don't think Trev's washer matches.


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Re: Duncan Briggs
Post 17 Aug 2020, 02:11 • #38 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 11/06/17
Posts: 2513
Location: South of Joplin
You know I've never seen a brass washer cupped like that and it was an exact fit. With the other obvious factory differences, it'd not surprise me if they had twenty different versions of those reels, and knowing how some companies there operated they may have been made in several different shops within the city. There is another picture out there of one with the same exact cupped shim that I've seen since posting to this thread.


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Re: Duncan Briggs
Post 17 Aug 2020, 06:09 • #39 
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Joined: 08/10/05
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Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
fair enough - could be a case of using what they could find.
Again, this reel was only made for about two years - they sure made a bunch of them in that time.


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Re: Duncan Briggs
Post 17 Aug 2020, 07:10 • #40 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 11/06/17
Posts: 2513
Location: South of Joplin
The numbers are one thing that make me think they had multiple small shops working and the odd differences reinforce that impression. Whatever, they were a simple adaptation of wartime production to the newfound leisure and expendable income that surfaced after the war. Basic functionality, marketable at blue collar prices.


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Re: Duncan Briggs
Post 17 Aug 2020, 07:54 • #41 
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Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19109
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
These reels were made 1954-5, only, and all by Temco in Providence, RI


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Re: Duncan Briggs
Post 17 Aug 2020, 08:35 • #42 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 11/06/17
Posts: 2513
Location: South of Joplin
When I worked in Providence in the '70s many manufacturers still had multiple small facilities scattered through out the city, often making the same items or parts of an item that would reach final assembly across town. It's all changed now, but back then much of the industry was in buildings dating from the 19th century. I think the clips on Cross pens moved through three shops before assembly, I worked in several industrial settings doing millwright work and most were part of a network of shops under one name.


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