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New new CFO III
Post 17 Feb 2022, 17:21 • #1 
Guide
Joined: 02/06/16
Posts: 241
Location: US
Just checking to see if anyone has gotten one in hand yet


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Re: New new CFO III
Post 17 Feb 2022, 17:24 • #2 
Guide
Joined: 02/22/16
Posts: 257
Location: Livingston MT
Got an email yesterday from Orvis saying they're shipping March 18th...

Tom


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Re: New new CFO III
Post 18 Feb 2022, 08:52 • #3 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 18032
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
I hope somebody posts photos. :hat


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Re: New new CFO III
Post 19 Feb 2022, 11:38 • #4 
Sport
Joined: 06/27/14
Posts: 64
Location: US-NY
Kinda sorta, almost what you asked for. It is the 50th anniversary version, not the standard release. Happy to answer any questions.











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Re: New new CFO III
Post 19 Feb 2022, 18:55 • #5 
Master Guide
Joined: 09/26/10
Posts: 432
Location: Montana
The foot looks similar to the Mirage which can be tough to fit on some slide band seats. Have you tried it on a sliding band seat? Thanks


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Re: New new CFO III
Post 20 Feb 2022, 16:08 • #6 
Sport
Joined: 06/27/14
Posts: 64
Location: US-NY
I tried it on a ring and cap and it fit fine. I do not have a full sliding band reel seat





(edited to upload photos)


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Re: New new CFO III
Post 21 Feb 2022, 12:48 • #7 
Sport
Joined: 11/24/21
Posts: 59
ffftroutbum wrote:
The foot looks similar to the Mirage which can be tough to fit on some slide band seats. Have you tried it on a sliding band seat? Thanks


It's also very similar to the foot on the Abel CFO although there are differences...mostly that the riser portion on the Mirage is oval rather than rectangular. I took careful measurements of Abel CFO III foot and someone else on another forum did the same on the gold anniversary reel (might have been lupalupa) and they are the same. I have tried the Abel CFO on multiple rods with sliding bands and had no problems.

Funny thing is, the Abel CFO foot is actually thinner than the Hardy or BFR CFO foot even though it doesn't appear that way. The Abel version has a taller riser, so it makes the whole thing look bigger. I took the foot off one of my Abel CFOs and a Hardy CFO (both III) and when you put them next to one another it becomes easier to see and the measurements back it up.

I can't imagine they would change the foot on the black CFO from the anniversary model. Hopefully in a month I'll have one of the black reels to compare to the Abel, Hardy and BFR reels.

That's a long way of saying that if a BFR or Hardy CFO fits on a rod the Abel and almost certainly new gold or black CFO will fit as well.

I didn't think of it previously, but I just took measurements of my Mirage's foot. It's .165" out near the toe, .230" near the riser and .530 wide. That's very close to the dimensions of the Hardy CFO foot below.

Here are some pics of the Abel next to the Hardy...other than riser height the Hardy is thicker at the toe, near the riser and even in profile when viewed on end. I didn't take a picture, but width was close with the Abel being .515 wide and the Hardy .530. Abel is on the left and the measurement pics are of the Hardy first.




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Re: New new CFO III
Post 21 Feb 2022, 15:38 • #8 
Administrator
Joined: 01/10/06
Posts: 7448
Location: Holly Springs, NC
If the reel feet conform to AFTMA standards, they should be the same size, except for the the riser section that connects the reel foot to the reel body. The tolerances set in the standard are tighter than the variation we see from one manufacturer to another. In their defense, I have never seen a reel maker claim their product met the AFTMA standard. In general, most modern reels are fairly close to the recommended dimensions.

If reel feet are built to the standard, and the reelseat hardware is built to match the standard, then the issues with 'fit' should go away. Unfortunately, there are still plenty of cases where reels almost fit certain reelseats. Of course with vintage rods and reels, test fitting is even more important.


Tom


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Re: New new CFO III
Post 01 Mar 2022, 20:24 • #9 
Master Guide
Joined: 09/26/10
Posts: 432
Location: Montana
Lupa, thanks posting your reel on a few seats. Is that the Bellinger garrison repo hardware in the second image?

Gman, if I am understanding you correctly you are thinking that the Mirage foot is similar to the old BRF CFOs? From what I have noticed that does not appear to be the case.

Below are some pictures of the Mirage LT on the Bellinger .69 slide band seat and the REC Components LCRN seats (the fit on the CRN seat is the same). The Mirage does not fit on each seat. The picture does not show it very well, but the sliding band is on the very edge of the foot and reel falls off when picked up.

REC LCRN


Bellinger


For comparison, Here is the a BRF Hardy CFO disc on the Bellinger seat. You can see the better fit as some of the foot is exposed.


Also here is the current made Hardy perfect on the Bellinger seat. The fit is less than to be desired as the foot only goes under the 3/4 of the band.


Tom, I am not really sure what the standard is, but if a reel company is adhering to the standard, there must be a range as I see differences in the way many current reels fit.


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Re: New new CFO III
Post 02 Mar 2022, 00:50 • #10 
Sport
Joined: 11/24/21
Posts: 59
troutbum,

I don't have a Mirage LT to measure, so I can't compare that to the reels I posted about. The Mirage and Mirage LT might have the same foot dimensions, but we would have to get some measurements before saying that for certain. I simply posted the measurements I have from Abel, BFR and Hardy CFO IIIs and a Mirage for comparison. The Mirage foot dimensions were closest to those I got from one of my Hardy CFOs.

With that said, that doesn't tell the entire story as the radius of the foot where it meets the seat can enter into the equation as well. So, in theory you could have two feet with the same thickness profile, same width and not fit a reel seat the same.

It would be wonderful if all of the manufacturers would all agree to use a common profile, but I doubt we'll live to see that day!


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Re: New new CFO III
Post 02 Mar 2022, 03:30 • #11 
Administrator
Joined: 01/10/06
Posts: 7448
Location: Holly Springs, NC
As I mentioned above, there is a common standard, as described by AFFTA* (drawing below, as taken from the AFTTA website). The standard allows for small variations. G-Bart, your measurements only show 0.010-0.025" differences between the two reel feet. You can take the reel foot radius out of the measurement by putting a metal rod against the inside curve of the reel foot and measuring across the combination of the two.

A well designed reelseat accommodates the variations given in the reel foot standand. Personally, I don't like wood insert sliding band seats. I got on the soapbox about this in the other thread on the same subject (viewtopic.php?f=6&t=73752#p407344).


Tom



* I wrote AFTMA earlier. My mistake, it should have been AFFTA. The American Fishing Tackle Manufacturers Association (AFTMA) was the predecessor to the American Fly Fishing Trade Association (AFFTA). At least their web address was correct.


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Re: New new CFO III
Post 02 Mar 2022, 06:29 • #12 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/05/06
Posts: 1822
Location: US-PA
Excluding a long foot on a Young, ALL of my problems with fit have been on custom rods with a custom inserts, meaning the issue was the rod, not the reel.

I don't know what the builder(s) used as a benchmark, but if it was a Hardy, there would have been no issues as I never had a Hardy reel NOT fit any rod I tried it on. The same goes for Abel, Ross or Saracione either.

Something tells me the foot on the NEW CFO will be fine with anything as well.


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Re: New new CFO III
Post 02 Mar 2022, 07:46 • #13 
Global Moderator
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8461
Location: US-ME
Tom gave a darn good and straight tech explanation. Sliding band seats on wood barrels are for show, not go. A cork barrel is a simple alternative, superior because of the resilience of the cork. The material of the rings is another factor. Apart from being dimensioned relative to the foot, they need to be slightly springy, so they can be pinched when slid into place. If the ring is too hard/stiff, it may look good, but it will gouge the wood, the foot, or both, and/or it slip and slide more easily. In selecting a reel seat, realize that the larger the diameter of the reel it must retain, the more it must secure the seat from rotary movement, not just fore and aft. Another functional weakness of ring-only seats.


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Re: New new CFO III
Post 02 Mar 2022, 08:44 • #14 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/05/06
Posts: 1822
Location: US-PA
My Orvis bamboo rods with "Superfine" grips & sliding bands have the best of both worlds; a cork barrel and thin rings which flex.

I have found that all rings, even on cap & ring seats and even caps will mark up reel feet and/or inserts unless they are mortised to accommodate the reel foot, which isn't many.

However that and the inevitable crack in the varnish at the thread winding on a metal ferrule is one sign of wear on a rod or reel that doesn't bother me in the least.


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Re: New new CFO III
Post 03 Mar 2022, 09:57 • #15 
Sport
Joined: 06/27/14
Posts: 64
Location: US-NY
ffftroutbum wrote:
Lupa, thanks posting your reel on a few seats. Is that the Bellinger garrison repo hardware in the second image?


I am not really sure. It is a Graywolf "The Natural" Any chance that you recall Shane?


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Re: New new CFO III
Post 05 Mar 2022, 14:33 • #16 
Sport
Joined: 03/03/22
Posts: 61
Location: NJ
The gold is sweet! I would love to see the 'regular' version in person. I'm curious how dark the color actually is, versus how it appears online.


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Re: New new CFO III
Post 05 Mar 2022, 16:43 • #17 
Guide
Joined: 02/22/16
Posts: 257
Location: Livingston MT
Latest update from Orvis is ship date of 04/08/22 for reel and 04/01/22 for spools.

Tom


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Re: New new CFO III
Post 06 Mar 2022, 14:27 • #18 
Sport
Joined: 11/24/21
Posts: 59
jgestar wrote:
G-Bart, your measurements only show 0.010-0.025" differences between the two reel feet. You can take the reel foot radius out of the measurement by putting a metal rod against the inside curve of the reel foot and measuring across the combination of the two.


No argument there. I was more referring to the radius and how that would affect being flush (or not) with the reel seat.


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Re: New new CFO III
Post 07 Mar 2022, 19:03 • #19 
Guide
Joined: 10/02/12
Posts: 103
Location: US-MO
The last info I got on the new CFO III is the color was going to be a gunmetal gray. It will weigh about 3.0 oz. and have a 3" reel diameter. Really looking forward to seeing one in person, hopefully my shop will get them in soon!


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Re: New new CFO III
Post 08 Mar 2022, 14:00 • #20 
Guide
Joined: 02/06/16
Posts: 241
Location: US
Sadly, when I recently spoke to Orvis about the new CFO III, the person I spoke to did confirm that it will have the same reel foot as the golden 50th anniversary model. Can't speak for anyone else, but that is a butt ugly reel foot. Why can't they just keep it to the original 1972 design? At this point I think the 2012 limited edition made by Hardy is the one I'll be on the look out for.


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Re: New new CFO III
Post 08 Mar 2022, 16:54 • #21 
Sport
Joined: 11/24/21
Posts: 59
To be fair, the BFR CFO has a different foot shape than the Hardy versions and the Abel version is different from both of those so there really isn't much consistency.

The new foot looks very similar to the Abel version and the measurements are essentially identical. I think the angled pictures on the website make it look more different than it would in real (reel?) life.

There really isn't much of the original reel in this new version (or the Abel)...more inspired by than anything else.

I actually think the original Hardy foot is less attractive than the Abel foot when put next to one another....the Hardy foot has always looked crammed too close to the spool to my eye. That hasn't kept me from owning at least one of every size except for the I.


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Re: New new CFO III
Post 08 Mar 2022, 18:59 • #22 
Guide
Joined: 02/06/16
Posts: 241
Location: US
True, true, but they all at least look similar. This new reel foot has the center cut out and two huge gaudy looking screws. I know you cant see them when the reel is mounted, but I know they are there and still look gaudy although concealed. No reason for it other then saving on production costs.


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Re: New new CFO III
Post 08 Mar 2022, 19:05 • #23 
Global Moderator
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8461
Location: US-ME
Sturdy attachment and ease of repair. An integral foot is just as easily damaged if a reel is dropped, but now the whole frame must be replaced. Stout functional components always look good to my eye, and typically the more integral or concealed/small, the more delicate and difficult to repair.


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Re: New new CFO III
Post 24 Mar 2022, 20:55 • #24 
Sport
Joined: 12/15/17
Posts: 50
Location: SW Idaho
Just received an email from Orvis 6:15 PM MDT this evening with a tracking number for my new CFO III. Since ordering back, I don't know, what two years ago, I was able to snag a very nice CFO IV Screwback, and as much as I love the size of the III, that IV really fits nicely with my Hardy Marquis #6's.


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Re: New new CFO III
Post 29 Mar 2022, 11:46 • #25 
Guide
Joined: 02/22/16
Posts: 257
Location: Livingston MT
Well just got my new CFO III and am looking at it now. Really nice looking reel in a deep black matte finish. Was not expecting the color but it's very nice. I'll post some pictures tomorrow morning next to one of the Abel CFOs for comparison.

As promised, new CFO III. Rivets instead of screws for click and pawl, otherwise pretty much the same as the rest.. Very nice perforated neoprene reel case. And looks like delrin handle instead of wood like Abel version.









Tom


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