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Re: New new CFO III
Post 22 Jun 2022, 10:00 • #51 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19078
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
holy cow, the photos need to be moved to p2 - make that p3


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Re: New new CFO III
Post 24 Jun 2022, 02:24 • #52 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 02/19/08
Posts: 1218
Location: Branson, Missouri
Orvis overload time...

Here are Tom's actual guts :



Good buddy took him fishing and all I got was this lousy picture ~ many thanks Chris!


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Re: New new CFO III
Post 24 Jun 2022, 13:44 • #53 
New Member
Joined: 01/28/22
Posts: 15
What a day! I will have one eventually!! I told him everyone will want a personalized CFO.

Can I post video here?

[Only if you hold the copyright to the video or have the video owner's permission to republish. Tom]


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Re: New new CFO III
Post 04 Jul 2022, 08:58 • #54 
Master Guide
Joined: 02/02/16
Posts: 515
Location: Georgia
My CFO arrived earlier than expected, so here’s one more picture for page 3 of this thread. The reel foot seems to be a perfect fit on the Ray Lee cap and ring seat on this in progress rod build.



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Re: New new CFO III
Post 04 Jul 2022, 09:03 • #55 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/05/06
Posts: 2087
Location: US-PA
Nice!


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Re: New new CFO III
Post 06 Jul 2022, 14:42 • #56 
Guide
Joined: 07/21/17
Posts: 102
Location: TX
Thinking I’ll pick one up. Anybody pair theirs to a new SFG? Eying the 764 and wonder if it’ll balance okay. The CFO II is just heavy enough for my SFG 703.


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Re: New new CFO III
Post 07 Jul 2022, 08:20 • #57 
Master Guide
Joined: 02/02/16
Posts: 515
Location: Georgia
I haven’t held the new Orvis 764 yet, but generally speaking, I think a glass 764 is right in the wheelhouse of the new CFO lll. I’m planning to use the CFO lll on a Steffen 7’6” 3/4 and also on a Trout Smiths 7’6” 4/5.


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Re: New new CFO III
Post 31 Dec 2022, 17:50 • #58 
Guide
Joined: 12/31/10
Posts: 158
Location: Maryland
Tis why I have always preferred the footed butt cap and ring over a cork insert.

The weight increase is minimal while the security level is much higher.


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Re: New new CFO III
Post 19 Jan 2023, 03:34 • #59 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 02/19/08
Posts: 1218
Location: Branson, Missouri
So these have a peculiar sound to me.
Not at all the same as the vintage sounding clicker.

Honestly, it's great still - just greatly different from Hardy made interior parts.


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Re: New new CFO III
Post 19 Jan 2023, 16:46 • #60 
Guide
Joined: 02/06/16
Posts: 328
Location: US
Well, I couldn't help myself and I still ended up picking one of these up. I hate the reel foot. It barely fits any of the reel seats on my rods. And its still ugly to boot. I finally got it to fit on a McFarland 7'6" 4wt rod that another forum member built and I picked up in a trade. I wish I knew who put that rod together, as I would like to thank them for using a cap and ring that the new CFO III fits. Saved the reel for me. I do think this one would have been a real winner if Orvis used the original reel foot design. I like the black frame and spool. That color matches well with a yellow blank, or at least IMO.


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Re: New new CFO III
Post 19 Jan 2023, 21:11 • #61 
Sport
Joined: 11/24/21
Posts: 70
Can you determine whether it's the width or the height (or both) that's causing the problem? I still haven't bought one but plan to eventually. I'm a halfway decent hobby machinist and think I could probably make a replacement without too much trouble. Most of the comments I've seen say they can get the rings started on the foot, but they can't get them far enough in to be secure. That tells me maybe it's a bit of a slope to where they get thicker as you move in, and if it was a shallower angle might be no problem at all. I have an early Hardy in front of me as I type this, and I think it's simply a flatter profile that might be the difference.


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Re: New new CFO III
Post 19 Jan 2023, 21:54 • #62 
Master Guide
Joined: 09/26/10
Posts: 547
Location: Montana
The CFO is a handsome reel, but the foot is among one of the worst I have seen. As far as I can can tell it shares the same foot at the Mirage LT which will not fit many of the commercially made slide band seats that I have examined. I have not tried this, but it might worth filing down the strong edge that’s on the foot with a bastard file. If you look at the foot the only place that hits the band is that edge. Again, I have not tired it, but it might improve the fit.


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Re: New new CFO III
Post 20 Jan 2023, 10:51 • #63 
Guide
Joined: 02/06/16
Posts: 328
Location: US
I think it's a combination of both. FWIW, for $350.00 we shouldn't have to think about these things or have to grab a metal file or machine a new foot to fix it.


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Re: New new CFO III
Post 20 Jan 2023, 11:28 • #64 
Master Guide
Joined: 09/26/10
Posts: 547
Location: Montana
Agreed Ruff. When I first bought some large arbor reels, Sage Spectrum LT in this case, I sent them to Bill Arthuleta to machine down the feet so I could use them on my older rods. I bought the large arbor reels for some artificial silk lines I was using as they would dry faster on them. The Sage does have a slightly better foot than the Orvis.

Also it might worth contacting Orvis to see if they can help address it. Maybe they have another foot they could send you.


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Re: New new CFO III
Post 20 Jan 2023, 12:02 • #65 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8920
Location: US-ME
Well sure, if there is an easy substitute foot. If you like a reel so much you just have to have it and have to use it, changing a reel seat, or the hardware on an installed insert, could take the better part of an hour. There are plenty of them that would work just fine.


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Re: New new CFO III
Post 22 Jan 2023, 01:31 • #66 
Sport
Joined: 11/24/21
Posts: 70
Ruff Hunter wrote:
I think it's a combination of both. FWIW, for $350.00 we shouldn't have to think about these things or have to grab a metal file or machine a new foot to fix it.


That's a nice sentiment, but this has been happening with various manufacturers forever. I bought a new Orvis HLS One-Ounce rod (7' 4wt") when they were first introduced. I then bought an STH DDR reel to go with it because it was the right size, right weight, and was something I could afford. Had to take a file to the reel foot to get it to fit the rings on the rod....which I now know (decades later) works just fine with many other reels.

It would be great if every company used the same reel foot dimensions, but they don't so pretty much every company is equally guilty. Ring reel seats are a niche market at best now and manufacturers aren't going to go out of their way to cater to them.

I can't even think of a major brand making rods with just rings now. I doubt any reel manufacturer really targets people with vintage rods buying brand new reels....not really what we see as the norm.


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Re: New new CFO III
Post 24 Jan 2023, 10:40 • #67 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/05/06
Posts: 2087
Location: US-PA
Slightly OT but I've had my own issues with a couple of my chosen reels for a particular rod not fitting but it my case it was a custom insert by a custom builder. From that point onward I have ALWAYS furnished the builder a diagram with the measurements of my chosen reel's foot and never had a problem again.

In this situation if I was in love with the new CFO but it didn't fit my rod, you might want to try a trick I did with two Hardy reels I had to do some reel foot filing on so they would fit...

...I bought spare reel feet.

As the reel feet were screwed on I removed the original serial number stamped reel feet and modified the spare reel feet and installed them. This way I still have the original foot with the serial number if I ever sell the reel and it was a heck of lot easier to work on the foot OFF of the reel.

In my case I got the reel feet from Hardy. I would imagine it might be a whole lot easier to get one from Orvis and they do appear to be attached with screws.

It's worth a try but if you are successful, make sure you have a decent hollow ground screw driver and some Loctite for the reinstallation. ;)


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Re: New new CFO III
Post 25 Jan 2023, 10:33 • #68 
Administrator
Joined: 01/10/06
Posts: 7811
Location: Holly Springs, NC
Here's what the reel foot should look like. AFTTA "maintains" fly line standards and a reel foot standard. Thirty years ago, the manufacturers followed the standards. Now, I doubt they know the standards exist.

The AFTTA standards page is now buried deep, deep, deep on the AFTTA website. I'm posting an image of the reel foot standard below.

There is no excuse for a reel company to produce equipment that doesn't conform. In my view, a non-conforming reel foot is a reason to return the reel. I'm certainly wouldn't file the reel foot down on a brand new purchase.


Tom



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Re: New new CFO III
Post 28 Jan 2023, 11:16 • #69 
Guide
Joined: 02/06/16
Posts: 328
Location: US
So I talked to Orvis Reel Repair about this. They recommended I file it down. To which my polite response was "your kidding me, you want me to take a an expensive reel and massacre the reel foot to get it to fit a rod, it should already fit on had you used the original reel foot design of the previous CFOs, and concurrently devalue the reel." I have to admit, this struck a cord with Orvis. We resolved the issue with Orvis agreeing to send me at no cost a replacement reel foot that I can file down, and still have an original reel foot that I can switch to and from. All things considered, I'm very satisfied with that.


01/28/23 Edited to add:

A different fellow than from the one I spoke to when I called Orvis, called me from Orvis the next day to let me know that they have no spare parts for the CFO III that they can send and will not have any in the future. When I asked what they do to replace broken parts for the new CFO that are sent back to them, his response was that they send them back the the manufacturer for repair. This struck me as odd as I thought Orvis is the manufacturer. What is the difference if I send them a reel with a broken reel foot? They are still going to put a new reel foot on it. The conversation got circular and less productive. I'm just glad that it works with at least one of my rods.


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Re: New new CFO III
Post 28 Jan 2023, 12:04 • #70 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8920
Location: US-ME
Let's not go any further with individual customer service issues.

It would be nice to have a consistent standard as Tom detailed so well above. I just don't think that will happen in a global manufacturing and market place, anymore than M (medium) gets you the same size shirt from different companies. Individual companies now have a hard time holding sizing consistency from their different manufacturers. Companies sometimes dump or steeply discount a whole line of clothing or shoes because they vary from typical specs--and they are the ones who spec'd the order to begin with. Even where there is a standard, it is only as good as the manufacturer and the QC of the wholesale buyer.

You try on clothes and return them in new condition if the particular cut/sizing from that company in that product line doesn't fit. Not to worry, somebody else makes and sells a more roomy size M in a flannel shirt. Even a 30" length pant isn't the same from each manufacturer, but most make one labled that way. Having the poorly fitting clothing custom retailored isn't usually the solution.

Even if you ask for the reel foot profile before buying, you still may have to check the fit on the intended rods/reel seats. If you want to use a lot of different reels on the same rod, the feet will vary. Changing the reel seat to a more accommodating design (wider/taller/deeper pockets and more adjustment range) is the easiest solution. And if one foot out of several is still too thin, temporary shims are easy without changing a thing.


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Re: New new CFO III
Post 28 Jan 2023, 12:18 • #71 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19078
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
I'll add this about my early Ross Gunnison.
They came with a thin reel foot, and offered a 2nd thicker reel foot, which was required on the Pac-Bay seat on my Fisher Sterling combo.
Image
Image

If Ross makes the new CFO - call Ross.


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Re: New new CFO III
Post 28 Jan 2023, 12:25 • #72 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/05/06
Posts: 2087
Location: US-PA
Although they won't divulge the name of the manufacturer, Orvis does NOT make the "Made in the USA" reels and other machined & anodized aluminum products they peddle.

The rumor is it is a Vermont based fabricator/machine shop.

This is a similar situation to Hardy's "Made in England" reels. They use a manufacturing facility in Peterlee, UK to do the manufacturing and final assembly is done at Hardy in Alnwick.


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Re: New new CFO III
Post 28 Jan 2023, 14:01 • #73 
Sport
Joined: 11/24/21
Posts: 70
Orvis certainly claims it's their own facility where the new reels are being produced as documented here:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=73749#p407322

I don't see how there's much rumor since outsiders have had access to the facility, but it was before Orvis started referring to it as their facility.

http://thefiberglassmanifesto.blogspot. ... -made.html


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Re: New new CFO III
Post 28 Jan 2023, 17:17 • #74 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/05/06
Posts: 2087
Location: US-PA
Orvis claiming "ownership" is new to me because I specifically asked them that question a year or so ago and they dodged answering like a deft politician...


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Re: New new CFO III
Post 28 Jan 2023, 21:57 • #75 
Sport
Joined: 11/24/21
Posts: 70
I don't know why Orvis would use the words "their facility" in a catalog if it's not true, but there's always the possibility something changed, or someone got the wording wrong.

The company that at least started making the Orvis Mirage line is G.S. Precision Inc, Brattleboro, VT. In the Fiberglass Manifesto article they had a picture of a blueprint, which I zoomed in on, and their name was on the top. I did a Google search on them, found out that the CEO (at least at the time) is/was Norm Scheneeberger, (I believe the son of the founder) and there is an article talking about them making reels for Orvis that I found...so I don't know why anybody would want to hide that sort of information. GSP sure looks like a capable company.

https://www.reformer.com/local-news/g-s ... ac914.html


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