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Post 14 Jul 2021, 17:18 • #1 
Sport
Joined: 12/01/20
Posts: 39
This is a puzzle. After 3 water vinegar baths I was able to get the spool to turn freely but it will not come loose from the cage, not even a budge. The cage is not preventing it from extracting. I took off the latch cover, the spring is missing from the latch, so it has no effect. Is it possible that it locked the spool in place before disappeared? Not sure what the nut pictured does, but the spool turns with it and does not separate from it.


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Post 14 Jul 2021, 18:19 • #2 
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Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
the nut appears to be some kind of field modification
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Post 14 Jul 2021, 19:06 • #3 
Sport
Joined: 12/01/20
Posts: 39
Ugh. So I guess I should try and take it off. Perhaps when the spring for the latch cover was lost they secured the spool with this nut.


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Post 15 Jul 2021, 08:02 • #4 
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Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
I could be wrong, I haven't had one of these apart in 10 years, and don't have one now to inspect.
But a big hand has been on the spool to tear the I.D.


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Post 15 Jul 2021, 13:07 • #5 
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Now there is a modification all right. That probably isn't the best word for it.

If a plunger-latch is coil spring powered, these are pretty easy to find something similar to replace a lost or damaged spring. On a lever latch, the hairsprings or v-spings, if that's the correct term, are more difficult to fabricate a replacement. In either case, though, when a latch fails, a simple spring clip (R-clip) or circlip is the most reliable temporary fix. In fact, they work so well, if spools aren't going to be changed often, somebody might never get around to fixing the latch. Any hardware store will have trays full of clips to find one whose diameter is suitable and with width to fit the spindle groove. The right size won't interfere with the latch cover, which can be reinstalled.


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Post 15 Jul 2021, 14:48 • #6 
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Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
but the most polite word

Rather than coil springs, they're hairpin leaf springs, but easy to make from piano wire.

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Post 17 Jul 2021, 11:02 • #7 
Sport
Joined: 12/01/20
Posts: 39
Thanks for the follow up replies. I was thinking I might have to order a latch spring, but I now see I have a number of DIY options.

Problem is I have not figured out how to get the nut off. There is no room to get any wrench I own in there, and a screwdriver blow at an angle doesn't budge it. If it is a DIY fix it is probably glued, since there would be no threads on the spindle. I will try the judicious use of pinpoint heat.

Failing removal, I guess I could use as is and sneak oil in around the gap in the nut hoping it seeps down the spindle and around the gap in the spool to keep the click and pawl oiled.


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Post 17 Jul 2021, 13:03 • #8 
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Joined: 01/10/06
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Location: Holly Springs, NC
Slow down. I doubt a torch will help. The nut turns with the spool. I think the nut was pressed into the spool spindle bore. It appears you have an irreversible modification.

Why do you need to take the spool off? Drip some oil in as best you can and use the reel. Why not? If the vinegar got the reel moving, then oil should penetrate to the moving parts. You will have a one of a kind Welterweight.

Even if you disassemble the spool, the end of the spindle is borked. Look at Ron's photos. I don't think there's enough left of your spindle to rebuild into the original configuration. I think the spool was modified too. The other option is send it to a shop that can remachine the buggered up parts. Unless there is a sentimental attachment, that option is probably not worth the price tag.


Tom


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Post 17 Jul 2021, 17:08 • #9 
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Joined: 08/10/05
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Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
my photo is a different reel - it's a c. 1957 Beaudex with the cast bosses in the spool.
His reel was built with the latch bosses in the latch cap.


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Post 17 Jul 2021, 19:14 • #10 
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Ah. Ron jump started my neurons...

The 'nut' is actually the spindle bearing. You can still see it in the photo of the removed spool. Definitely don't take it out or hit it with a torch. I think my photos are the same basic reel, although a bit larger. That said, I have no idea what is holding the spool on the spindle in the original post.


Tom



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Post 17 Jul 2021, 19:55 • #11 
Sport
Joined: 12/01/20
Posts: 39
Interesting. This is such a great forum! So the verdict is that that nut is part of the original design, and is not supposed to come off.

"You will have a one of a kind Welterweight."

I certainly will! There does seem to be ample points for lubrication. Other than the poor state of the spool and the slight chance of finding an extra for replacement, the main reason to remove it would be to get at the inside, there is a missing rivet on the back plate where near the regulator is, which doesn't seem produce a change in drag pressure when turned. I suspect a missing part, but may not be able to find a replacement, and as it is it has sufficient power to prevent overrun, so I probably will just fish a unique Welterweight.


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Post 18 Jul 2021, 07:03 • #12 
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Joined: 12/05/06
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Location: US-PA
With two threaded holes in the spool face it would pretty simple to fabricate a "press" using a piece of flat stock, some washers to space out the flat stock and a bolt to turn to attempt to press out the spindle.


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Post 18 Jul 2021, 07:20 • #13 
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Joined: 04/20/07
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Well I'll be darned. It still looks like the spindle or spool face have been thwacked on a bit--maybe the slash shaped punch mark at about 11 o'clock? It never hurts to use multiple applications of penetrant such as Liquid Wrench or Marvel Mystery Oil.


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Post 18 Jul 2021, 13:55 • #14 
Sport
Joined: 12/01/20
Posts: 39
jgestar,
The two pictures of your reel; in the first I see the nut, or what you are calling the bearing, but what happened to it in the second picture? It looks as if the spindle has slid out away from it as I do not see it on reel inside, but it is not observable on the spool any long either.

I ask because I do not want to try bamboozles method if the bearing is supposed to stay on the spindle when the spool comes out.

Liquid Wrench applied.


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Post 18 Jul 2021, 17:26 • #15 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 05/19/14
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Location: USA - Illinois
The nut is there in the second photo, on the face of the spool.


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Post 18 Jul 2021, 17:55 • #16 
Administrator
Joined: 01/10/06
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Location: Holly Springs, NC
The nut/bearing is still there. It isn't obvious in the second photo. Hopefully this expanded photo helps.

The other photo is the inside of my latch cover - it's exactly like Ron described, with the same shape spring.

The latch cover can be used as a spindle jack, like Bamboozle suggested. Take the cover to your local hardware emporium for a 1" or longer screw that fits the center hole. Mine has a 6-40 thread, but yours might be smaller. Install the cover (without the latch bar, of course) and gently thread the screw into the center hole, which should lift the spool off the spindle.


Tom





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Post 18 Jul 2021, 18:40 • #17 
Sport
Joined: 12/01/20
Posts: 39
OK, I see it now, thanks. So the spool is just stuck on the spindle. I like the idea of using the latch cover to lift it off. Unless some piece from the regulator has lodged onto the spool somehow, not clear how that could be, more lubricant and that latch cover trick should pull it off eventually. Thanks. I'll report back after my next trip to town for the screws.

Edit: This just gets weirder. I was rereading your first post, jgestar, where you said,"The nut turns with the spool. I think the nut was pressed into the spool spindle bore." I realized that not only the nut, but the spindle moves with the spool. My other Young made reels and, all my other click pawl reels have a fixed spindle on which the spool moves, can it be that this reel was made with a revolving spindle? Why do that? This is so odd. If the spindle was broke at the base, I don't see what would prevent the spool from coming right off.
Color me puzzled.


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Post 18 Jul 2021, 18:59 • #18 
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Location: Holly Springs, NC
ephemera wrote:
I realized that not only the nut, but the spindle moves with the spool...can it be that this reel was made with a revolving spindle?

That's really bad. The spindle is loose in the hub the reel body. The spindle should not spin. Is the reel a sentimental favorite?


Tom


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Post 18 Jul 2021, 22:59 • #19 
Sport
Joined: 12/01/20
Posts: 39
Not at all, an auction purchase, to which I received a refund and was told to not bother returning. I guess it is toast, worth what I paid for it.


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Post 19 Jul 2021, 07:11 • #20 
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Joined: 08/10/05
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Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
Stash all the parts somewhere safe - that's worth taking the spindle off, to get to springs and pawls.
now you can patiently look for the Lightweight-W you really want.

Image Image


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Post 20 Jul 2021, 12:03 • #21 
Sport
Joined: 12/01/20
Posts: 39
I want that one!


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Post 23 Jul 2021, 09:05 • #22 
Sport
Joined: 11/08/13
Posts: 62
Location: Milroy Pennsylvania
Bulldog. I have a question about your handsome Orvis. It appears to be designed for RHW only. Can that configuration be reversed for LHW by flipping the pawl? My guess is it cannot. Thanks.


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Post 23 Jul 2021, 12:46 • #23 
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Joined: 08/10/05
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Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
It has a round-headed pawl, and was intended to be reversible from the factory.
It's a tricky reel to remove or bend the spring in place, but can be improved even more by drilling out the riveted spring stanchion and replacing with the screw stanchion from a Pridex Lite. Then you can tune it to improve wind and pay in either direction.
Garry Mills usually has those parts stocked in UK.


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Post 30 Jul 2021, 13:57 • #24 
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Joined: 07/11/14
Posts: 1405
Location: urban Colorado
ephemera wrote:
I realized that not only the nut, but the spindle moves with the spool. My other Young made reels and, all my other click pawl reels have a fixed spindle on which the spool moves, can it be that this reel was made with a revolving spindle? Why do that? This is so odd. If the spindle was broke at the base, I don't see what would prevent the spool from coming right off.
Color me puzzled.


my Pridex which is the Young version of these Battenkills (or is it the other way 'round ?)
has a screw securing the spindle on the back plate.



Going by Ron's pic above, I suspect the Battenkill has a similar screw underneath that raised boss labelled 'Orvis Battenkill' on the back side of the back plate. This must be loose enough that the spindle can turn..
Not sure how to get that cover off to access the screw though..


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Post 30 Jul 2021, 15:10 • #25 
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Location: Holly Springs, NC
doug in co wrote:
Going by Ron's pic above, I suspect the Battenkill has a similar screw underneath that raised boss labelled 'Orvis Battenkill' on the back side of the back plate. This must be loose enough that the spindle can turn.. Not sure how to get that cover off to access the screw though..

You pry it off the logo badge/access cover and possibly ruin it in the process. A heat gun might soften the glue before prying. Not a problem if you have NOS logo badges in the shop. I suspect Orvis threw them in the circular file a couple reorganizations ago.

My Orvis welterweight photographed above is the earlier generation. The spindle screw on mine looks exactly like your Pridex.


Tom


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