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SA system reels
Post 14 Apr 2020, 13:40 • #1 
Master Guide
Joined: 08/15/10
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Location: Elizabethtown & Germania, PA
I see a lot of topics on these reels. I was curious and searched but did not find an answer. How many series were there? I see system 2, 4, etc. What is the difference among the various numerical series, i.e. a similar model in each series? I kind of remember when SA introduced these but I've never used one.


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Re: SA system reels
Post 14 Apr 2020, 14:42 • #2 
Master Guide
Joined: 04/07/18
Posts: 382
Location: Reston VA
AFAIK SA originally had three series of reels. One was a low cost System 1 series of click and pawl models ranging from 4/5/6 to 7/8/9. Anotehr was an upgrade System 2 line which had a robust drag in 4/5, 5/6, 7/8 and 8/9 sizes and was suitable for serious trophy use. Yet another series of System reels was designated by sizes 4 through 10 that were spitting images of Hardy offerings. All were well made for the price and tend to last indefinitely even though some late offering Series 2 reels went to some plastic parts.

Then there also were some more modern SA reels that came on line but I never had a need for or interest in them.

Heddonist


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Re: SA system reels
Post 14 Apr 2020, 14:45 • #3 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 03/30/09
Posts: 1525
Location: Hamilton,Ontario,Canada
The first was a reel made by Daiwa.It was a decent reel.Actually before that there was a reel that was actually a Hardy Marquis.After the Daiwa there was the Sysem 2.These were fairly rugged reels and went up to 9 or 10 wt. lines.These were made by Leeda which later became British Fly Reel.Then came the System 2L which were lighter reels but were excellent with a disc drag which the System 2 also had.There was the System 2LC which had a click drag.There were also some later click drag reels.After the System 2L there was the System 2M which was in between the 2 and the 2Ls.There was also a System 6 which was a high end that was around $600.00 back around the 90s.There may even be others but I cant remember.


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Re: SA system reels
Post 16 Apr 2020, 10:46 • #4 
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Joined: 04/03/19
Posts: 221
Location: CO
Depends on the era. For example, my System 7 reel is a re-badged Hardy Marquis. It even accepts a Marquis spool. Later iterations of the System series were produced in Asia.


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Re: SA system reels
Post 16 Apr 2020, 10:56 • #5 
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Joined: 08/10/05
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Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
we're here again - there's a difference between System numeral and System One Two, etc. - they have two different meanings


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Re: SA system reels
Post 16 Apr 2020, 12:20 • #6 
Master Guide
Joined: 07/12/17
Posts: 391
Location: SW B.C.
SA really didn't think it through when they insisted on naming everything System! :lol Can you imagine trying to sort out things if all Hardy reels were named Marquis?!


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Re: SA system reels
Post 16 Apr 2020, 12:32 • #7 
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Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
actually, it's easy to sort out of you read

System 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 - matching rods and Hardy Marquis reels numbered by line weight
System G4, etc - same idea in graphite
System One, System Two, System Two L, M - new series of reels with each model numbered for correct line weight match.
Maybe just turn this thing on.


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Re: SA system reels
Post 16 Apr 2020, 12:44 • #8 
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Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8931
Location: US-ME
The original system concept was coherent as could be. The term "System" along with the number indicated capacity for that line weight and adequate backing, and a match with a System X fiberglass rod. It was a consistent marketing method to appeal to the many new flyfisherman starting into the sport, emphasizing a well matched "system" of rod, reel, and line and, especially for newer anglers, intended to make it easier to select a matched outfit. Later, that was abandoned early in the graphite era and the subsequent reels, "system" was used more in the way of "type," "generation," or "series." Nevertheless, when a system lasts a decade or more, it was a pretty good system.


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Re: SA system reels
Post 16 Apr 2020, 12:52 • #9 
Master Guide
Joined: 08/15/10
Posts: 590
Location: Elizabethtown & Germania, PA
Thank you, gentlemen.


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Re: SA system reels
Post 16 Apr 2020, 15:36 • #10 
Administrator
Joined: 01/10/06
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Location: Holly Springs, NC
bulldog1935 wrote:
Maybe just turn this thing on.

It's on just fine - the thread needs pictures!

The first photo is a System 5 reel on a System 5 fly rod. The Hardy built System reels came in two flavors - the ones with the engraving oriented as shown in the first photo and an earlier version with the engraving turned 90 degrees counter-clockwise (the beat up reel in the second photo). The later version has the better built drag, but the earlier reel is lighter. The matching System fly rods had very distinct reel seats and were built on two-piece, spigot ferrulled Fisher rod blanks with serial numbers. No, I don't know how the build dates relate to the serial numbers.

The System One, System Two, etc., reels came a decade later and did not have matching rods. Please note, these had the word 'One' or 'Two', not System 1, on the reel. They aren't as elegant as the Hardy built reels, but they are well made and durable. The System One - 4,5,6 was the same reel as the Daiwa SF706 and the System One - 7,8,9 was the same as the Daiwa SF708. The spools interchange.


Tom




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Re: SA system reels
Post 16 Apr 2020, 15:55 • #11 
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Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
System is a trademark for Scientific Anglers, a call on their disciplined, empirical approach to tackle and fishing.
And especially in the glass rod series, hard to argue against perfection.


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Re: SA system reels
Post 17 Apr 2020, 11:27 • #12 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 07/11/14
Posts: 1786
Location: urban Colorado
huh thanks, I didn't know about the two generations of the System n reels - presumably there was a similar difference in the Hardy Marquis ?

I have the first-gen System 2 in size 89, it's built like a tank with a decent caliper drag, fine reel. British Fly Reel BFR didn't make beautiful reels but they are solid. Bought this new in the early 90s for a Florida Keys trip, didn't catch anything there but later got salmon and steelhead and Australian saltwater fish on it, worked perfectly.

The System One which is a rebadged Daiwa SF706, not so much - it's OK but clearly a Japanese-made reel from the days when Japan was building on the cheap. It's kinda odd, these days all the engineering innovation in spinning reels comes from Daiwa or Shimano..


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Re: SA system reels
Post 17 Apr 2020, 11:58 • #13 
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Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8931
Location: US-ME
Probably some of the various iterations can be linked in time to the trademark reassignments, which may reflect changes in management, manufacturing, and retailing emphasis.
Here's more than enough info for a search at the US Patent/Trademark office for a lot more research than I want to do.

Word Mark
SYSTEM


Goods and Services
IC 016 018 020 022 025 028. US 022. G & S: FLY FISHING EQUIPMENT, SPECIFICALLY, [ RODS, ] REELS[, AND LINES]. FIRST USE: 19680828. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19680828
Mark Drawing Code
(1) TYPED DRAWING
Serial Number
72318832
Filing Date
February 10, 1969
Current Basis
1A
Original Filing Basis
1A
Registration Number
0884969
Registration Date
January 27, 1970
Owner
(REGISTRANT) SCIENTIFIC ANGLERS, INC. CORPORATION MICHIGAN 1012 JEFFERSON AVE. MIDLAND MICHIGAN 48640
(LAST LISTED OWNER) Scientific Anglers LLC LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY MICHIGAN 178 CONSERVATION WAY SUNDERLAND VERMONT 052504465


Very interesting to me--and makes perfect sense, that us old timers think first of the Hardy-based reels. I still remember a guy showing me one he was quite proud of on the Battenkill in the early 1970s. So that's almost 50 years ago, and now even the "new" System Number stuff goes way back but would be thought of first by "newer" anglers.

As I mentioned above, more than a decade is not too shabby for a product (the Marquis-based reels) especially in the era of "planned obsolescence" and rapid economic and technical change, the "system" trademark having begun in about 1970. In terms of continuity, it may look less coherent in retrospect than it was. Bulldog sorted it out pretty efficiently. System "Numeral" as in jgstar's great pics. Next, at the time, System One (word) would have distinguished from the "old" and signaled a "new" product, the more so because there were no System 1, System 2, or System 3 reels. Later, System Two would have been easily recognized as distinct from One.


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Re: SA system reels
Post 17 Apr 2020, 12:30 • #14 
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Joined: 02/27/16
Posts: 2334
Location: US-IL
I did not know the System one was based on the Daiwa 700 series.Which to me are decent cheap reels.The gear is a little coarse when new but they break in nicely.Good sturdy reels in IMHO.Not gonna protect a tiny tippet on a carbon rod tossing tiny flies but will slow down a carp bass or pike.I have 2 system Twos.A much smoother drag than the 700 series and could see that being a benefit in certain situations.


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Re: SA system reels
Post 17 Apr 2020, 16:28 • #15 
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Joined: 09/03/07
Posts: 2055
Location: Marble Falls, Texas
I’ve a number of the Daiwa SF706 reels. I think one of the biggest appeals to me is that if a dual pawl such as these gets gritted up on a local stream, all I have to do is remove the spool, rinse the frame and spool in the river, reassemble and go on fishing. Some of finer tolerance, cork/carbon/whatever drag system reels don’t do that.


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Re: SA system reels
Post 17 Apr 2020, 16:46 • #16 
Master Guide
Joined: 04/07/18
Posts: 382
Location: Reston VA
The many boxes for the SA reels in question that I have are clearly labeled "System 1" and "System 2" .

Also, some later System 1 reels are marked made in Korea.

Heddonist


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Re: SA system reels
Post 17 Apr 2020, 17:21 • #17 
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Joined: 08/10/05
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Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
That appears to be something they changed along the way - may have coincided with the move to Korea.
But one thing for certain, the latter are more contemporary reels.

mdwwhw wrote:
I’ve a number of the Daiwa SF706 reels. I think one of the biggest appeals to me is that if a dual pawl such as these gets gritted up on a local stream, all I have to do is remove the spool, rinse the frame and spool in the river, reassemble and go on fishing. Some of finer tolerance, cork/carbon/whatever drag system reels don’t do that.
I fished with Billy Trimble on a couple of treks along the CO/NM border, when he was a trout wizard and wouldn't even sit through a conversation about coast fly fishing. (Now he's one of the top TX coast fly fishing guides and speakers)
When his Marryat locked up on a San Juan fish, he threw it from the top of a cliff into Simon Canyon.
After that, he fished nothing but System One reels.


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Re: SA system reels
Post 17 Apr 2020, 18:23 • #18 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8931
Location: US-ME
Back to numerals, but long, long, long after the original Marquis-based were gone. No confusion in their time as there was no System 1 or System 2 in the originals to be confused with. This could probably be traced as well by reading the various documents associated with the original trademark "System." The trademark is still "live." Somebody who gets thinking about it can probably come up with more System versions, more recent still.


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Re: SA system reels
Post 17 Apr 2020, 19:26 • #19 
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Joined: 08/10/05
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Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
exactly - and the new System 4 looks like the wheels that keeps spinning after the SUV stops.


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Re: SA system reels
Post 17 Apr 2020, 19:51 • #20 
Master Guide
Joined: 08/03/14
Posts: 945
Location: central AR
Some of the all black system one reels were made in England. I think they went to Korea with BFR.


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Re: SA system reels
Post 13 May 2020, 12:18 • #21 
Guide
Joined: 08/17/07
Posts: 102
Location: US-VA
I think I have a System 1 reel around here somewhere that says Made in China on a decal on the reel foot. After Korea? If manufacturing costs continue to rise, one could expect reel manufacturing to move to Vietnam or India--as other things have.


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