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Post 16 Apr 2014, 16:10 • #51 
Guide
Joined: 01/22/10
Posts: 112
Location: Montana
Thanks Keith,

The plan is slowly coming together. Stiff lines don't work for me either - I'm also in MT so understand completely. I will be doing a poll on color and DT vs. WF shortly - should be enlightening to say the least. Realizing you can't be all things to all people can be quite humbling.

Tom


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Post 16 Apr 2014, 17:42 • #52 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 09/29/06
Posts: 4413
Location: Willamette Valley, Oregon
what did fly fishers use decades ago and do you want to duplicate that or can you improve?


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Post 16 Apr 2014, 21:56 • #53 
Guide
Joined: 01/22/10
Posts: 112
Location: Montana
My idea was to replicate some of the old fly line tapers such as the oft mentioned Aircels and 333s using modern materials. The tapers would be tweaked a bit and tested before releasing them. It seems to me there's a lot of older glass rods still in use and most of the new lines are designed for faster graphite rods. A series of lines specifically geared towards glass at a reasonable price would be a small market but it looks like there is a lot of interest. I would have the ability to do small test runs of lines and starting with the older tapers refine them to suit a range of older and newer rods. Or maybe have a say vintage series for older rods and a series for the newer faster rods. It's still in the planning stages so I'm tossing around a bunch of different ideas - the manufacturer will do small runs of various tapers and designs so I have the flexibility to experiment. The manufacturer is also a reasonable distance from me so a drive to hash out ideas is will work nicely.

Tom


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Post 16 Apr 2014, 23:58 • #54 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 09/29/06
Posts: 4413
Location: Willamette Valley, Oregon
Tom, I own many old rods. I think you are on the right track.

Paul


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Post 17 Apr 2014, 10:58 • #55 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/23/05
Posts: 4966
Location: US-MT
Not sure lines have really changed that much that they need to be "designed" for either glass or graphite. My old lines--and I have some from the 60's--cast fine on my graphite rods, and my "new" lines cast fine on my glass rods. Biggest change from my perspective has been the "5wt" lines that are really 6wt etc.
Just my 2cent and likely worth less than that.
Keith


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Post 17 Apr 2014, 12:00 • #56 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 09/29/06
Posts: 4413
Location: Willamette Valley, Oregon
I agree with you Keith. When I say the gentleman is on the right track I mean that he will be offering a new product and many fishers like that. Its about finding a niche. They will buy his lines and will likely be pleased with them.

Danged migraine is making it difficult to clearly communicate. Hope my posts are making sense.


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Post 17 Apr 2014, 12:59 • #57 
Master Guide
Joined: 09/26/10
Posts: 547
Location: Montana
Not sure I really believe in a glass specific line, a good line is a good line. But like Rvreclus, I would love to see someone bring back the old Masterlines. Just terrific lines. Good thing I have hoarded a bunch.


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Post 17 Apr 2014, 16:27 • #58 
Master Guide
Joined: 08/06/09
Posts: 620
Location: US-WA
In the 60, 70's there was only round two tapers for a weight forward. Now there are, I am not sure. But can't count them on one hand. As rods got faster it seem like they have made the lines a little heavier, like 5wt more like a 6wt to get the rods to flex to cast right. So I agree with the older tapers work better with glass and bamboo as it loads those actions better. And most of the lines I have tried aren't those type of tapers and don't work as good for me and my casting stroke. I hope these lines come out. I will be getting a few. Just my two or three cents.


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Post 17 Apr 2014, 21:39 • #59 
Guide
Joined: 01/22/10
Posts: 112
Location: Montana
I just took a quick look thru Rio's 2013 catalog and, excluding spey lines, they have 53 different line tapers and exactly 1 DT line. Sage even makes rod specific lines such as their Bass II lines and the Quiet Taper for the TXL-F rods. I think there's a need for more DTs that perform with glass rods and especially older rods. I would argue that much has changed from the older lines even if you only count materials used in today's lines. They float better, don't need dressing, and last longer. Combining old ideas with new materials makes sense to me. Most new lines seem to be overweighted and stiffer to accommodate today's graphite. My goal to bring back the sensation of casting a rod gracefully with the rod doing the work. It's a thing of beauty to see a rod and line in synch as it's cast.

It's going to be quite a journey - I appreciate the company.

Tom


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Post 18 Apr 2014, 10:47 • #60 
Sport
Joined: 09/04/13
Posts: 48
Location: Denver, Colorado
I agree with Keith on the visible post. I like a line I can see well. My vision is not what it used to be even with glasses. I prefer orange but any bright color is good.


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Post 18 Apr 2014, 12:02 • #61 
Master Guide
Joined: 08/06/09
Posts: 620
Location: US-WA
I want to Thanks you for taking on this project and as you can see there are a few with you on this one and many more that would be if they were on this site. Thanks again John


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Post 03 May 2014, 02:07 • #62 
Master Guide
Joined: 04/01/11
Posts: 466
Location: US-UT
Make a Rio Gold taper on a DT line and you are in business. Best line I have used on any glass rod.


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Post 03 May 2014, 04:35 • #63 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8920
Location: US-ME
DT lines with a short taper might be a darn good product to revive.

The Rio Gold is a short front taper, not a very new idea, with long body (newer for WF lines, but all DT lines have that). It is, essentially, half a DT line with a shorter front taper than the unusual 8 to 10 or 12 feet. Not very "revolutionary," as they call it, but clever.

There have been some steep tapered DT lines around for years in what are sometimes marketed as starter/beginner lines. I think the SA Concept DTs are like that but didn't look it up.


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Post 04 May 2014, 06:35 • #64 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 10/30/09
Posts: 2527
Location: Winston-Salem, NC
River Hag wrote:
Make a Rio Gold taper on a DT line and you are in business. Best line I have used on any glass rod.

What he said!


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Post 04 May 2014, 07:39 • #65 
Sport
Joined: 03/09/12
Posts: 25
Location: Driftless
My favorite line for glass rods would be the old SA XPS double taper. They have a soft coating and cast really well.


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Post 06 May 2014, 11:18 • #66 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/05/06
Posts: 2086
Location: US-PA
As a fan of white fly lines, I’ll offer a suggestion I once proposed to Bruce Richards when he was at Sci Anglers: make ‘em white and sell a cold dye similar to what the B.A.S.S. crowd uses to dye soft plastics to color them as you wish…

…or not. ;)

Yea it sounds like a pain but looking at the color choice poll you might save a few bucks exploring that option.

Other than that, make them float well, stay limp and leave the fancy tapers and off weights to the big boys.


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Post 06 May 2014, 18:55 • #67 
Master Guide
Joined: 09/21/13
Posts: 704
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Bamboozle wrote:
make ‘em white and sell a cold dye similar to what the B.A.S.S. crowd uses to dye soft plastics to color them as you wish…

That's a great idea Bamboozle. It also allows the end user to customise their line with colour-coding for distances, should they choose to do so.

I'd have green or tan for the first 30', then a white belly, going into blue for the last 30' on the other end of a DT line. I would then customise my tapers at each end by trimming them, with the colour providing the distinguishing identifier. Windy day or big fly? Go the blue. More delicate presentations? Go the tan.

Cheers,
Graeme


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Post 25 Jun 2014, 10:09 • #68 
New Member
Joined: 08/27/13
Posts: 23
Location: US-MD
Another late to the party, but I have a couple things I'd love to see in a glass-centric line.

- UltraLight weights, ie: 00-3wt. There are a lot of Folks that fish Ultralight fly gear in glass and the lines, especially DT lines are getting tough to find and expensive.

- Full sink/sink tip lines - Pike, Musky, Bass, Saltwater, etc

- Heavy weight lines ie: 8-11wt. Lines for the big guns like vintage Fenwick to chase Redfish, Stripers, big Carp (Beaver Island?)

It looks like you've had plenty of suggestions for the other stuff like low memory, 'natural' colors, etc.

Josh


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Post 25 Jun 2014, 17:08 • #69 
Guide
Joined: 06/19/14
Posts: 126
Location: Columbia, MO
Zoran wrote:
Cortland Sylk - look no further.
Among the other dozen of different lines I tried, Sylk is just the ultimate glass fly line.
Cheers,
Zoran


+1


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Post 25 Jul 2014, 16:28 • #70 
Guide
Joined: 09/02/05
Posts: 193
Location: US-CA
fly line color: I fish primarily short graphite for trout (though i'm ramping up on wrapping some glass) and it seems i have accumulated a few olive colored fly lines. Loved the color at first, now i simply like it. I picked up a cheap cabelas DT for about $15 in orange. A bright orange, and i really liked the difference in visibility (the line is decent too). I'm 47 with astigmatism and never wear glasses. I imagine the eyesight will only get worse. The orange was a favorite of a new fly fishing buddy of mine who tried it out recently when we fished together. There were too many factors of change compared to his rod but the color was definitely one favorite aspect of his (it also better allowed me to show him what was wrong with his casting).

I think i'd prefer a burnt orange. A two-tone would be cool too. So this idea of being able to custom color a fly line sounds really interesting to me, and would definitely set you apart further from what is currently available.

whatever develops, we wait with anticipation. good luck!

eric
fresno, ca.
(simply loved my old Sylk and current Rio Gold)


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Post 26 Jul 2014, 08:35 • #71 
Guide
Joined: 01/22/10
Posts: 112
Location: Montana
you know I like the idea of two tone lines but we are using polyurethane which is much harder to do that with. Also the new materials have more added agents so there's no way to tell how a dye would interact with them.

I like burnt orange.

Looks like first offering will be DTs in lines 3 thru 8 or 9 in a couple of colors. I would love to throw out a complete series to start but time and money constrictions only allow me to start slowly. Followed by a WF and a Bass Bug taper (love that name). We are moving along and hope to have lines for testing sometime in late September. In time we should be able to offer short runs of different colors in any size possibly as limited runs.

My goal was and is to provide a solid product without the hype, simple and uncomplicated for a reasonable price that still has the quality to compete with anything on the market today. The website is being worked on - also Facebook - and I'll let you know when they are up and running.

Once again I'd like to thank everyone who took the time to contribute their thoughts.

Tom


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Post 26 Jul 2014, 09:44 • #72 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 02/10/07
Posts: 1632
Location: The Netherlands
Looking forward to the lines. Hope for lots of success to you.


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Post 21 Aug 2014, 08:55 • #73 
Guide
Joined: 01/22/10
Posts: 112
Location: Montana
Hello everyone,

Just a quick update. The test lines are in production and should have them in hand by early September. They are then going out to some trusted testers to either refine further or use as is. Initial offering will be lines 3 thru 8 in a DT and a WF in pale olive. Price - not sure as we are running small quantities and they are priced accordingly to us. For now they will be available from us on the website and as we get established thru select glass dealers. Lines 3 thru 5 are 25 yards and 6 thru 8 are 30 yds. My thought is that the 25 yd. length is better suited for the smaller reels frequently used with the older rods. More line weights and colors should appear as we get settled in.

Company name is "406 Fly Lines" reflecting their origin.

Thanks for your patience,

Tom


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Post 21 Aug 2014, 16:38 • #74 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 10/26/12
Posts: 1188
Location: Fairfax, Virginia
Good Update Tom !

Pecos


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Post 21 Aug 2014, 17:05 • #75 
Master Guide
Joined: 08/19/12
Posts: 477
Location: Central Oklahoma
Tom
If your going to sell these online you need to buy a domain name and launch a small site ASAP. This will help your viability on the search engines when you finally have product to sell.


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