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Post 29 Sep 2010, 07:28 • #1 
Administrator
Joined: 07/17/06
Posts: 5590
Location: South Carolina
Today I announced on T.F.M. that I have started an advertising relationship with Leland Fly Fishing Outfitters. Over the past few months I've decided that it is time to tastefully monetize the website and this is the first step in the process of me becoming a "hundredaire" from my work on T.F.M. HA ...

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If you shop online then please consider giving Leland Fly Fishing Outfitters a look. If you click through the Leland ad box to the Leland website to make a purchase then T.F.M. will get a little back on commission.

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Just a heads up ... Leland will have the Scott F2 series soon ... along with FREE SHIPPING!


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Post 29 Sep 2010, 08:27 • #2 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 11/24/06
Posts: 1507
Location: Beautiful View, WA
Good for you Cameron.

Leland should carry more glass though, not just the one line of rods from Scott. Like the Hardy glass rods for example: I mean, they carry a few Hardy rods, but not the glass series right now.


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Post 29 Sep 2010, 08:45 • #3 
Administrator
Joined: 07/17/06
Posts: 5590
Location: South Carolina
Lugan123 ... I'm putting bugs in their ears. Hopefully the Hardy glass will show up and maybe a couple other surprises.


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Post 29 Sep 2010, 10:25 • #4 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 11/24/06
Posts: 1507
Location: Beautiful View, WA
Good to hear Cameron. They do a great job on their website with all the extra info they offer; almost like going into my local shop. It almost makes me feel less guilty about buying online vs. going to my local shop because they really try to add value.

Separately though, and I say this as half-fisherman and half-product strategist professionally: How many super fast graphite wunderrods can a guy possibly own? I mean really, Mr. Rajeff, is the new Loomis NRX going to cause me to trade in my Sage Xi3 or Scott S4 and drop another $795 on a rod that is 3% better but otherwise the same as what I and all of my friends already have? No, and I suspect that is the same answer for most fishermen at this time. We already learned that our Z-Axis rods are not actually better than the XPs they replaced. I'm not even incorporating the effect of the economic situation into this $795 question.

Instead, I wonder why more manufacturers and shops don't start throwing curve-balls, change-ups and ... screwballs, instead of all fast-balls? Maybe the market I imagine to be there isn't really there at a large enough scale to make it worthwhile. Maybe it's only big enough for McFarland, Steffen, Paddock, etc. But guys like me who have e-v-e-r-y fast graphite rod they could use in a lifetime (they all have warranties that last that long, after all) are starting to look more and more for something different. That's what I see anecdotally, at least, and I don't mean the guys hanging out on this forum.

Maybe I don't hang around enough newbies who are upgrading their TFOs for top-shelf rods, and that's the big market for the big rod companies. So I could be wrong, but I'd love to see the hard market data that proves me wrong. I just feel like there's got to be some oddball (screwball?) niches to be filled. Heaven knows that for my own arsenal, I had to search high, low, and long to fill a few niches (e.g., short streamer rods).

Just my $795 ... I mean, 2 cents.


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Post 29 Sep 2010, 11:00 • #5 
Guide
Joined: 04/27/10
Posts: 278
Location: AB, Canada
Lugan123 wrote:
Instead, I wonder why more manufacturers and shops don't start throwing curve-balls, change-ups and ... screwballs, instead of all fast-balls? Maybe the market I imagine to be there isn't really there at a large enough scale to make it worthwhile. Maybe it's only big enough for McFarland, Steffen, Paddock, etc. But guys like me who have e-v-e-r-y fast graphite rod they could use in a lifetime (they all have warranties that last that long, after all) are starting to look more and more for something different. That's what I see anecdotally, at least, and I don't mean the guys hanging out on this forum.

I agree a bit.

I gentlema I now who designs rods for a smaller company up here asked for input on any rods "not out there" on the market, and I had asked if he ever considered a fiberglass rod and essentailly brushed the idea off. This coming from the company that designed a graphite rod to act like bamboo (which aparently it does coming from a local boo guy) which is essentially what glass already does.

Companies are usually relectant to offer a series of rods that fulfills only a niche market because it is hard to build and sell enough o make costs worthwhile. That being said, you can see some of those niche rods coming out like the BASS series frrom Sage, or the 99 series.

The smaller guys like Mike, Fred, and Mark (Mcfarland, Paddock, Steffen)are able to build rods as the orders come in.


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Post 29 Sep 2010, 13:05 • #6 
Emeritus
Joined: 06/08/07
Posts: 2505
Location: Superior, Colorado
Good for you Cam. I've dealt with Leland's before and I have to say top notch outfit.


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Post 29 Sep 2010, 13:34 • #7 
Master Guide
Joined: 02/26/08
Posts: 981
Location: SW, Michigan
Leland is one of the better online fly shops out there. I don't have a local fly shop and I hesitate to depend on the destination shops for everything because I have gone to one before that was out of 5X tippet leaving me without it for the weekend. They tossed a really nice Leland Fly Fishing hat with one of my orders for free. Really impressive.


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Post 30 Sep 2010, 06:24 • #8 
Sport
Joined: 02/15/09
Posts: 54
Location: US-WA
Good for Leland, and I like Lugan123's question a lot. If I buy at a local shop it's as though I can have any rod I want so long as it's a Sage Blastomatik. How come I can't go into a local fly shop and find a fiberglass rod? With the recent growth in fiberglass rod production from Hardy, T&T, and Scott I suspect this will change. If those companies are building rods they must see demand. But glass rods from these companies have been out a few years now and I don't see them on the shelves of any of my local shops. When I've talked with staff and owners at these shops, however, one in twenty has any idea what I'm talking about when I ask about glass or bamboo. It's not just them wanting to sell what they have in the shop, they truly have no real reference point for anything other than graphite. I don't mean all fly shop staff are like this, but those in the shops where I live are like this.
So then you guys have to get your ears bent with questions from guys like me. And maybe if you're lucky I'll send you two cents.


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Post 30 Sep 2010, 13:22 • #9 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 11/24/06
Posts: 1507
Location: Beautiful View, WA
Thanks for the two cents David, and good points. I like your name for the new line of Sage rods. But now I'm still short $794.98 to complete my purchase of a Loomis Thunderslayer.


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Post 08 Oct 2010, 13:13 • #10 
Guide
Joined: 02/26/10
Posts: 331
Location: Lynn, Massachusetts
My take on this issue of glass availability is that when the fast graphite market is saturated, the makers will start "introducing" and marketing slower rods and we will start to have some shop glass rod options. What is the guy with fast graphites in each line weight going to buy next? Assuming he will continue ot buy rods.


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Post 08 Oct 2010, 15:35 • #11 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/26/09
Posts: 1106
Location: Richmond, TX
Following on neil green's and others' posts, my thought is that there may well be a market migration toward modern fiberglass rods (and a further migration toward bamboo rods) over time.

If, as I believe is true, there are many '1st generation' fly fisherman who were started on and only know graphite rods, and are the product of modern fly fishing marketing (versus those who learned about fly fishing from their fly fisherman fathers and grandfathers who started with bamboo and glass rods). As these '1st generation' fly fisherman mature, they start questioning the graphite rod message and start thinking about, experimenting, and eventually using alternatives. The growing interest in bamboo rods may be an indication of this trend. I can see this line of thinking being, at least in part, a driver for the growing number of rod companies offering a line of fiberglass fly rods. (For the most part bamboo is not a feasible alternative for larger rod companies who rely on production manufacturing.)

Andrew.


Last edited by rewynd on 09 Oct 2010, 17:36, edited 1 time in total.

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Post 08 Oct 2010, 16:05 • #12 
Administrator
Joined: 01/10/06
Posts: 7479
Location: Holly Springs, NC
The most important message in this sport is the many different ways to do the same thing. All of them are good. Glancing around the site this evening we have active discussions on leaders, fly lines, flies, rod grips, rod length, and of course custom rod builders. In each of those discussions there are a wide variety of preferences.

There is no "right way" to fly fish, just lots of good ways. Glass fly rods happen to be one of them.

Tom


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Post 09 Oct 2010, 12:25 • #13 
Guide
Joined: 02/26/10
Posts: 331
Location: Lynn, Massachusetts
Tom - Well Said! And, unlike some boards I am on, this board's posters have not disparaged fellow fishermen who fish differently or with different rod material.


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Post 09 Oct 2010, 12:42 • #14 
Guide
Joined: 02/26/10
Posts: 331
Location: Lynn, Massachusetts
rewynd - I hear what you are saying about the likely difficulty of large scale bamboo rod production. But if you consider factory bamboo rods like Granger, Heddon, Phillipson, WM Granger, South Bend and others were all basically massed produced, and remain popular fishing instruments today despite their age.
If they could do these rods in factories up to the early '50's I really wonder whey it can be done today given modern planning equipment, glues and availability of tonkin cane. In the old days, many of these rods were sold in hardware stores and local sporting goods retailers. Granted, these rods will never approach the craft of the modern builders, but I would think they could meet the niche for $300 rods.


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Post 10 Oct 2010, 02:42 • #15 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 02/06/07
Posts: 1425
Location: US-VT
neil green wrote:
Tom - Well Said! And, unlike some boards I am on, this board's posters have not disparaged fellow fishermen who fish differently or with different rod material.

Neil,

I agree with Tom's statement completely, but like other Boards, graphite gets disparaged from time to time here as well. In fact, surprisingly, I sell and trade more graphite rods(recent and "vintage") on the Bamboo forum.

Rich


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