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Post 15 Jul 2023, 08:08 • #1 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/05/06
Posts: 2099
Location: US-PA
This morning I was engaging in my usual Saturday morning ritual of watching cartoons. In this particular Tom & Jerry adventure, Tom was fishing with a casting reel and when he cast, the handle was spinning.

I realize this was only a cartoon and despite how much I wish it was, it isn't real life but it made me think...

    Did baitcasting reels always have a free spool button for casting or is that a relativity new innovation?

My first ever reel was a old small baticaster given to me a zillion years ago but about all I remember about it is the color.

Thanks in advance for any insight anyone can offer and I promise I won't ask next, if spinach really makes you stronger. ;)


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Post 15 Jul 2023, 08:38 • #2 
Master Guide
Joined: 12/27/08
Posts: 936
Location: Columbia, Mo. USA
the first reel I bought myself (lawn mowing money) was a Pflueger Summit (I still have it) and it was a direct drive (not sure that is the correct term)---the handle and the spool turned together. A fisher person had to learn to thumb the spool or all hell broke use (birds nest). I caught a ton of fish on that reel!
midmofly


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Post 15 Jul 2023, 09:08 • #3 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19110
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
Freespool existed before the war, but didn't work like a modern reel - the handle slides sideways, with a swage that grabs the main gear when you push it back in.
Image

Actually, Douglas 1918 LW patent used on the 1st Pflueger Supreme was freespool and anti-reverse, but was was dropped when Marhoff's LW patent rights expired in 1928.
Image Image

The ubiquitous freespool we're familiar with was Ambassadeur patent, along with their centrifugal brake and drag.
(Noteworthy, it works very similar to Douglas' expired patent - a yoke lifts the pinion gear out of engagement)
Since Abu had patent rights, all the baitcasters available to Tom and Jerry were direct-drive "knuckle busters"

Image

Japan bench Isuzu Industries still builds high-dollar direct-drive multipliers, sold as Tabby and Revolver.
https://isuzu--reel-com.translate.goog/ ... _tr_pto=sc


Last edited by bulldog1935 on 15 Jul 2023, 21:54, edited 3 times in total.

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Post 15 Jul 2023, 09:10 • #4 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/05/06
Posts: 2099
Location: US-PA
Thanks for the info!!


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Post 15 Jul 2023, 09:37 • #5 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19110
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
See, no such thing as a stupid question - regards, bro.

Image

ps - if you really want to learn to thumb a baitcaster, get one of these rocketships (Meek, Talbot, Jack Welch Heddon, Shakespeare) -
- no reels were as fast as 19-teens NLW until Lew's Speed Spool un-synchronized the LW from freespool.
(these reels were used for distance tournament casting until Ambassadeur CT arrived)
Also noteworthy, the Shakespeare Freespool Tournament I posted first was the original BFS reel, with alloy spool, shallow cork arbor, and loaded with 4-lb silk braid.

Image


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Post 15 Jul 2023, 13:35 • #6 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/05/06
Posts: 2099
Location: US-PA
First I have to find me a sweet bamboo bait casting rod like yours.

BTW - Jerry was the "bait" in this particular cartoon... ;)


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Post 15 Jul 2023, 14:23 • #7 
Master Guide
Joined: 09/23/18
Posts: 623
Location: Eastern Wa
Good info here! Thanks Ron.

I tried my direct drive/boo setup a week or so ago at night. I backlashed it several times but fortunately was able to fish hard for a couple hours in the dark (without headlamp on except for fixing a birdsnest). Unfortunately nothing big enough latched onto my muskie jitterbug that I was able to set the hook on.



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Post 15 Jul 2023, 14:31 • #8 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19110
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
Top is 7' Thomas salmon/inshore rod - I haven't tried to date it, but here's the butt cap marks.


Nick, you'll like this, 6' 2-blade Mahogany-grade Special with tube, hang-tag and taffeta sock -
- the butt cap dates 1914, same age as the Talbot Niangua.


Last edited by bulldog1935 on 15 Jul 2023, 21:49, edited 1 time in total.

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Post 15 Jul 2023, 18:22 • #9 
Master Guide
Joined: 04/15/06
Posts: 805
Location: Fayetteville, NC
My first reel was a beat up old Pflueger Supreme. It had an on/off clicker, but no drag or freespool—pure direct drive with spinning handle. I recall how frustrating it was to cast. It made the Zebco spin cast outfit that came the next Christmas seem like the best thing since fiberglass! As I recall, serious bass and especially Muskie fishermen, whose reels were likely in much better tune than my old hand-me-down, made leather tabs that wrapped around the rear frame bar to protect their thumbs from getting burned by the line during long, fast runs. I never needed something like that, since my use consisted of stripping off braided line and lobbing a live minnow out far enough to drag around a red and white bobber and attract a bass or catfish—my biggest catch was about three pounds.


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Post 15 Jul 2023, 19:42 • #10 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/05/06
Posts: 2099
Location: US-PA
bulldog1935 wrote:
Top is 7' Thomas salmon/inshore rod - I haven't tried to date it, but here's the butt cap marks.

Nick, you'll like this, 6' 2-blade Mahogany-grade Special with tube, hang-tag and taffeta sock -
- the but cap dates 1914, same age as the Talbot Niangua.

You are killing me... ;)


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Post 17 Jul 2023, 20:31 • #11 
Sport
Joined: 12/04/11
Posts: 72
Location: US-MI
Where to start? There have been "free spool" reels since the turn of the last century. The difference was they were far more common when the majority of reels were non-levelwind. Most operated by reversing the handle or pulling the handle out to disengage it. There were leverwind reels that were "free-spool" such as the 1939 Coxe 25. But the levelwind remained in gear during the cast so "free-spool" was a bit of a misnomer. The reel that really popularized the push button "freespool" was the Ambassadeur 5000 which was introduced in the USA in 1954. Again, the levelwind remained engaged. I believe that most memories of backlashes on earlier reels are the result of folks not having the money to afford a really good reel and not having the time to practice with it. Combine these last problems with too heavy a line and not cleaning and lubricating the reel regularly and you have a situation where even an accomplished caster will struggle to make decent casts. LOL


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Post 18 Jul 2023, 15:08 • #12 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19110
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
Not only do the Japanese like direct-drive reels, they really dig Synchro reels, especially with low-inertia full-BB LW.
(and all things Ambassadeur)

Image

Bill, if you note the 1st Supreme LW, it's driven off the main gear (vs. the spool on Ambassadeur).
So Douglas 1918 LW patent separated the freespool from the LW (and main gear).
The closest thing to a shortcoming, it was full-time anti-reverse, with no drag of any kind (Ambassadeur drag slips the main gear).


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Post 18 Jul 2023, 19:33 • #13 
Master Guide
Joined: 09/23/18
Posts: 623
Location: Eastern Wa
Cool Pflueger reel! Never knew one like that existed.


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Post 18 Jul 2023, 19:53 • #14 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19110
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
It doesn't. That's an Isuzu bechmade Smith Ltd. Plugger.
Small-frame Synchro reel generally copied after '76 Ambassadeur C, but comes off the bench with all the ball bearing LW race we add with aftermarket parts.
Same maker as the Tabby 301 direct drive I linked in my first reply.
Regards, bro.


Last edited by bulldog1935 on 19 Jul 2023, 07:24, edited 1 time in total.

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Post 18 Jul 2023, 20:00 • #15 
Master Guide
Joined: 09/23/18
Posts: 623
Location: Eastern Wa
My eyes were fooling me with the label. Thanks for the clarification! I think it would be a blast to have a high quality modern direct drive casting reel. (like the Tabby). As long as it was RH retrieve (my preference). Certainly would add more excitement and personal connection to the fish.

Thanks Ron


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Post 18 Jul 2023, 21:15 • #16 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
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Thanks Mike. I like the Plugger enough I'm watching Yahoo for a good used buy Isuzu BC520X.
The Plugger is the same spool size as a 1500C.
The 520X is the width of a 2500C and the only IAR roller-bearing reel Isuzu made (along with matching Megabass Pagani).
These reels are also lighter weight than you can get any small frame Ambassadeur swapping-in every possible Avail part.

The biggest problem with Yahoo is most BIN listings are speculators hoarding new-in-box reels, and you do see Tabby 300 and APHL FD-50 (same reel, different marque) and BP Bait Revolver in RHW.
Unfortunately, this is the kind of price you see on most listings vs. the JY34,100 original retail ($245).
Tabby 300 - https://noppin.com/yahoos/detail/h1011254742

All limited Isuzu-branded reels are sold by lottery, and the reels they make for other marques are snapped up by bait shops and most sold in advance of delivery.
They made enough Smith Plugger, the batch stock lasts on Amazon.jp and retail market for a few weeks, and there's a pretty good supply in the NIB resale market.

ps - if you go through all these pages, you'll see some killer eye candy - https://isuzu--reel-com.translate.goog/ ... _tr_pto=sc

Throwing in some you won't see there, here's Pagani and Bright River F.


Last edited by bulldog1935 on 19 Jul 2023, 06:58, edited 1 time in total.

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Post 18 Jul 2023, 22:05 • #17 
Master Guide
Joined: 09/23/18
Posts: 623
Location: Eastern Wa
Cool Ron. Ouch on the RH buy-it-now price Tabby. Those other reels are eye candy for sure!!

BTW I finally found an almost new 4600C
a while back for ~$170 (my favorite baitcaster from my early teens). Also picked up a 7' Diawa 1pc fiberglass rod (vintage discontinued model).

Im going to fish it a while before thinking about any modifications.



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Post 19 Jul 2023, 07:29 • #18 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19110
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
Nice. Nice.
The red thumb-clutch reel is in high demand.
Congratulations on finding one near mint. Cool rod and great-looking combo.

My curiosity is up and want to see more of the reel,
I believe that's a 1978 reel that takes the Avail AMB4550R-EF spool, which has a great capacity for either mono or braid.
(just swapping the spool would see an instant inertia improvement)
Hugely desirable here on both counts.

Red spool would be nice match - this is the shallower AMO spool for later C3 Ultracast reels.
But if your reel is the one I think, it has better BB configuration for low inertia.
Image


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Post 19 Jul 2023, 10:00 • #19 
Master Guide
Joined: 09/23/18
Posts: 623
Location: Eastern Wa
Ron you have more "reel" sense than anyone I know. Looks like a '78 just like you said.
I might be interested in making it a better caster but Im not interested in changing its appearance too much or turning it into a low capacity BFS reel since I want to maintain its nostalgia from my teenage years and use it with regular sized bass terminal tackle.



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Post 19 Jul 2023, 11:25 • #20 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
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Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
ok, but that's the best low-inertia Ambassadeur configuration period, and the spool capacity is 80 yds 12-lb mono.



IMO, not having this spool would be a waste of that reel - it will shed an ounce.
Same centrifugal - you can fish everything else the same, and get longer, more reliable casting.


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Post 19 Jul 2023, 11:31 • #21 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 07/11/14
Posts: 1786
Location: urban Colorado
adding to bulldogs' point on the spool - in my experience these make the reel very much easier to cast as well, with that low-inertia factor, even for regular bass-weight lures.. Every old Ambassadeur I have gets the light spool, makes them a real joy to fish. The only ones that don't have the new spool are a 5000C used for pike where the lures are so heavy, the old spool works fine; and a 7000C used for surfcasting, where the high line capacity of the old spool is actually needed. Haven't been surfcasting in literally decades though, sadly..

3500c out on the flooded lake..



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Post 19 Jul 2023, 11:33 • #22 
Master Guide
Joined: 09/23/18
Posts: 623
Location: Eastern Wa
Thanks Ron. Ill order one and use braid for increased capacity.

Thanks for the part reference!

Good stuff Doug! Beautiful setting!


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Post 19 Jul 2023, 11:38 • #23 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19110
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
This guy is the smartest in the world on this stuff.
https://japantackle.com/Tackle_topics/abu_tuneup.htm
He rates all the possible mods and has them prioritized by effectiveness.

Jun Sonada at JapanTackle, btw.
Great vendor, great information in his Tackle Topics, great English if you need to ask a question, and you'll always get a reply.
(son Kayo has passable English)
Hedgehog and JapanTackle are the only vendors that place daily orders with Avail - they can get you anything from current Avail batch.


Last edited by bulldog1935 on 19 Jul 2023, 13:29, edited 2 times in total.

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Post 19 Jul 2023, 11:51 • #24 
Master Guide
Joined: 09/23/18
Posts: 623
Location: Eastern Wa
Thanks again for more useful ABU info.

Hedgehog just received my spool order!


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Post 20 Jul 2023, 07:05 • #25 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19110
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
Mike, something else I should have mentioned about Japanese vintage baitcaster bents.
They buy up Langley, - Lakecast, Lurecast, Target direct-drive reels with alloy spools and shallow arbors.
Many of the octogenarians in our sport began fishing Langley just like we began with Ambassadeur 20 years later.
Especially the NLW like this 340 were fished as "BFS" - light mono or braid casting 1/8 oz lures.


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