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Post 09 Jun 2022, 08:59 • #1 
Guide
Joined: 02/04/14
Posts: 180
Location: US-MA
After two seasons of fishing almost nothing but glass fly rods I’m missing spinning rods a little. When it’s windy I’ve used some moderate graphite spinning rods but I want some light glass rods for trout/bass/pickerel fishing.

I like vintage rods for fly fishing as metal guides work fine with fly lines. I’d much prefer Fuji aluminum oxide guides, having had more than a few negative experiences with metal guides over the years.

Anyone have insight on this?


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Post 09 Jun 2022, 11:56 • #2 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19032
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
There was a whole marketplace of great glass rods from the mid-late 70s with aluminum oxide guides.
Here's my Phillipson Epoxite ES66 matched with hardy Exalta (ball-bearing drive)

Image

I'm sure Shane will build you whatever you want with Fuji guides of your choice.

Might even check with Ricks Rods in Denver for OS Phillipson blanks.

Also Randy Johnson /Retroglass for Fisher blanks.

The only time you absolutely must have ceramic guides is fishing braid.


Last edited by bulldog1935 on 10 Jun 2022, 07:35, edited 1 time in total.

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Post 09 Jun 2022, 15:57 • #3 
Sport
Joined: 10/17/14
Posts: 68
Location: US-PA
The spinning rods I've fished with over the past 40 years have all had Aetna foulproofs on them, not a single negative experience, and none of them have grooved. I'm putting a rod together, hopefully this summer, and it will get foulproofs. And besides, they just look right on an older rod. Personally, I see no advantage to ceramics, but thats just my opinion.

Tim


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Post 10 Jun 2022, 06:37 • #4 
Guide
Joined: 02/04/14
Posts: 180
Location: US-MA
Tim,

Thanks for the info. I just don’t have much experience with them. Maybe I have a go


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Post 10 Jun 2022, 18:54 • #5 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 07/11/14
Posts: 1782
Location: urban Colorado
like you I've grooved up a lot of metal guides over the years.. but now I don't have enough time to fish and too many rods, so it's irrelevant. I have a couple of Fenwick spin/fly travel rods with the looped wire guides. These are in good condition and I don't expect them to wear out anytime soon. I've even fished braid on these rods on a couple of BWCA trips.

Back in the bad old days there were a lot of metal/wire guides that weren't very good quality. All the spin rods I've ever built use Fuji guides, rebuilt a couple of them with Fujis when the metal guides wore out, never had to replace any of those. If you get a vintage spin rod with worn guides, it's usually quite straightforward to replace them.


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Post 10 Jun 2022, 23:31 • #6 
Administrator
Joined: 01/10/06
Posts: 7799
Location: Holly Springs, NC
The rod I've owned the longest is a 5 foot Shakespeare spin rod (from the late 60s). I caught a couple times my body weight of snapper blues with that rod. I wore/rusted off the original metal guides. I replaced them a couple of times with new metal guides, which also didn't last long. Next I rebuilt the rod with a set of double foot Fujis, but too many guides that were too heavy. They turned the rod sluggish. Finally, I replaced those with single foot, light Fuji spinning guides. Perfect. Those guides have been going strong for 25+ years.

AETNA foulproof guides would be nice too, but they are tough to find.


Tom


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Post 11 Jun 2022, 06:36 • #7 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19032
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
Both Gutebrod and PacBay list them, and mudhole carries the PacBay, but I don't believe RE: building rods was what the OP was asking.


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Post 12 Jun 2022, 19:14 • #8 
Guide
Joined: 02/04/14
Posts: 180
Location: US-MA
Thanks to all for the information. If the guides on the Fenwick fs65 are shot I will rewrap with silver Fuji single foot guides. If not, I will fish it until they wear out.

I used to build glass spinning rods for light tackle striped bass, fluke, and blue fishing. Lamiglas mb842f and a similar seeker blank. They were far more fun than graphite rods for smaller fish and evoked less worry with larger ones due to durability. All three were broken, sold, or in the case of the last, stolen.

I hope to add some functional classic reels to the mix shortly.


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Post 17 Dec 2023, 11:31 • #9 
Master Guide
Joined: 04/27/07
Posts: 644
Location: Missouri
Going to build up a Phillipson 7' spinning rod blank. Any suggestions on appropriate guides to use?


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Post 17 Dec 2023, 14:08 • #10 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19032
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
Great plan - if you want to dodge single-foot and possibly fish braid, Fuji K-series Double foot.

Pac-Bay offers old style stainless FoulProof guides.

Recoil guides have a double foot classic look without ceramic inserts and have the ability to spring back when they take a bad hit.


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Post 18 Dec 2023, 13:25 • #11 
Master Guide
Joined: 04/27/07
Posts: 644
Location: Missouri
Ron, what kind of guides was Phillipson using on their spinning rods?


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Post 18 Dec 2023, 13:43 • #12 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19032
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
Hi friend, if you go back far enough, they used FoulProof.
Between, they used plated or stainless K-frame without inserts.
This isn't Phillipson, but mid-60s H-I
Image

If you look at the my last-gasp ES66 Registered above, they used K-frame with big-grey ceramic inserts.
I personally would not limit myself to mono, and would use the newer, finer ceramic inserts.
This is on a bait rod, but sure is a beauty.
Image


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Post 19 Dec 2023, 12:45 • #13 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 07/11/14
Posts: 1782
Location: urban Colorado
Quote:
I personally would not limit myself to mono, and would use the newer, finer ceramic inserts.


that's my vote too.. Phillipson would have used the best available guides to build with, whether I build a vintage blank or a new one I also like to use the best currently available. That is Fuji ceramics of some kind..
The only exception to this is splitcane fly rods, still use snake guides on there.

If you want to stay in time and not commit an anachronism, as bulldog says you'll need either the Foulproof wire guides or the plated doublefoot guides. Jann's Netcraft still carriesPacific Bay XSG guides which look about right.


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Post 19 Dec 2023, 14:51 • #14 
Master Guide
Joined: 02/04/12
Posts: 706
Location: SE Pa
Carboloy guides are nice, wear resistant, still available and correct for some later quality fiberglass spinning rods.


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Post 19 Dec 2023, 20:15 • #15 
Master Guide
Joined: 04/27/07
Posts: 644
Location: Missouri
Thanks, very interesting! I'll have to make up my mind on this. I need to determine the sizes to use also.


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Post 20 Dec 2023, 18:59 • #16 
Administrator
Joined: 01/10/06
Posts: 7799
Location: Holly Springs, NC
Here is a photo of two later model Phillipson spin rods. The top rod is a Master G-MS701L, a 7 foot, 2-piece rod for up to 1/4 oz lures. The green wrapped Master rods first showed up in the 1969 catalog, but the same basic model had been available for a few years. The bottom rod is an Epoxite ES60UL, a 6 foot, 2-piece fly/spin rod for #5 line or up to 1/4 oz lures. This rod showed up in the early 70s.

The Master spin rod has all double foot, wire frame guides. The Epoxite has three double foot, wire frame guides and three double loop, fly guides. Both rods have conventional, spin rod tip-tops. The guides are generally on the small side. The stripping guides on the MS701L and ES60UL are maybe 25mm and 16mm, respectively.

    MS701L guide placement and sizes:
    • Butt/Stripper, 50-1/4" from the rod tip, 23.5mm OD (20mm ID)
    • Tip Guide #4, 35" from the rod tip, 16.5mm OD (12.5mm ID)
    • Tip Guide #3, 22-1/4" from the rod tip, 11.5mm OD (9mm ID)
    • Tip Guide #2, 12-1/2" from the rod tip, 9mm OD (7mm ID)
    • Tip Guide #1, 5" from the rod tip, 7.5mm OD (5.5mm ID)
    • Tip top, 7.5mm OD (5.5mm ID)

Chrome plated, wire frame, spinning guides are getting hard to find. Pac Bay offers them with braced and unbraced frames, but the smallest size is 10mm. The double loop fly guides were pretty much a Phillipson exclusive (Rick's Rods still had some in stock at last check). Recoil offers guides similar to the Phillipson double loop.

Like I implied upthread, I would only build a light spinning rod with single foot Fujis. The benefits far outweigh the classic looks of wire frame guides. Micro guides are an option too.


Tom



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Post 20 Dec 2023, 20:38 • #17 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 02/27/16
Posts: 2317
Location: US-IL





2 Shakespeare 5' UL spinning rods.The one on the left has inserts,i believe ceramic and is a 1pc .Is more modern and was marked something other thn Wonderod.The one on the right was 3pcs or different lengths and green metal ferrules.I gave theses rods away last summer or would post better pics.I still have not seen another rod with guides like these.I gave member Tooty a pile of Wonderods and these were among them.


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Post 22 Dec 2023, 09:17 • #18 
Master Guide
Joined: 04/27/07
Posts: 644
Location: Missouri
Thanks Tom, that is exactly what I needed to know. Appreciate your help.

Tim


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Post 22 Dec 2023, 11:05 • #19 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19032
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
Tom is a great choice here - he's both a serious rod collector, and a serious rod builder.


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Post 22 Dec 2023, 13:59 • #20 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 02/27/16
Posts: 2317
Location: US-IL
Tom- i have had dozens of vintage casting and spinning rods pass thru my hands.Never a Phillipson tho.One of my old friends still talks about his Phillipson casting rods wheen he was a kid.I did own a JP 800 flyrod with the coil guides.Interesting that they used them as the upper guides on a spinning rod.I still have a few UL glass rods but i do favor braid especially on glass.More sensitive and little stretch and glass has a softer hook set which is a plus with crappies.The Shakespeare rod i posted above had unusual guides.Rod must have been at the very end of the glass era. I fished it last spring with braid but it was not a pleasant taper for what i was doing.I have several GC ultra lights that have grooves in the guides from mono,so they must de made of pretty soft metal as the grooves gp below the plating.I think i have at least 5 of the staggered ferrule 5' ? ULs from 4 star down to the blue rods.Single foot guides might look good on some of these and some creative thred work to cover the blems where the top foot was.


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Post 24 Dec 2023, 15:41 • #21 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 07/11/14
Posts: 1782
Location: urban Colorado
since we're on the subject, here's another kind of Phillipson guide, on a Mity-Lite - a plated wire ring, on a double-foot that is not braced but looks a bit like a guide ring was mounted in a large snake guide..





I do like the looks of these, would use them if they were available but think these may have been like the double loop guides Tom mentioned, a Phillipson exclusive..


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Post 24 Dec 2023, 18:43 • #22 
Administrator
Joined: 01/10/06
Posts: 7799
Location: Holly Springs, NC
Doug, Your rod was rewrapped. Mitey Lite's didn't have translucent wraps. Whoever did the work did a nice job.

Chrome plated, double foot guides can pit, then rust out, especially if not washed after salt water. Many spin and casting rods have replacement guides. Think of it as maintenance.

That style guide was around in the 70s/80s. The nearest modern equivalent is a ceramic insert "N" guide from PacBay.


Tom


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Post 01 Feb 2024, 21:52 • #23 
Master Guide
Joined: 04/27/07
Posts: 644
Location: Missouri
I decided to use American Tackle Delta guides, pretty happy with how the rod turned out.



Last edited by oldschoolcane on 03 Feb 2024, 09:39, edited 2 times in total.

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Post 02 Feb 2024, 07:29 • #24 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19032
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
Tim, that usually means photos, so the rest of us can be happy with it, too.


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Post 06 Feb 2024, 18:53 • #25 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 07/11/14
Posts: 1782
Location: urban Colorado
good-looking guides, very nice..
as bulldog says, need more pictures ;-)


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