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Post 12 Apr 2022, 17:47 • #1 
Guide
Joined: 09/11/19
Posts: 128
Location: Canada, Alberta
Hi everyone,
I am wanting to switch out my treble hooks this spring with all single hooks.
Wondering if people have a preference of single hooks?
I read about "in-line single hooks". Wondering if anyone has any suggestions?
Thanks!


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Post 13 Apr 2022, 08:02 • #2 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 18066
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
Size 6 is the smallest single replacement offered by Owner/Cultiva in US



Trout lures may go down to size 18 treble.

Look for smaller sizes of Owner SM-55 (medium wire) and SM-75 (heavy wire) on ebay.
You can also check US stock at BaitFinesseEmpire - the most useful tool is Smith Pinchette split-ring tweezers - check BaitFinesseEmpire for these without fail.

Image

Vanfook offers a range of spoon hooks in JDM, but the Owner plug hooks are pretty much the best offered for plugs.
Though I noticed BFE has Vanfook plug hooks that maybe look nicer because of short shank.


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Post 13 Apr 2022, 11:41 • #3 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 05/22/16
Posts: 1458
Location: SJC
For trout spoons I picked up some C'ultiva SBL-35's this year from BFE. Haven't used them yet.

I had been using Gamakatsu Siwash hooks; you can use a pair of pliers with the open-eye hooks to close the eye around split rings, but they also sell closed-eye versions. I've found them available in sizes down to 10. I typically use these on larger lures, say, 1/8 oz and up.

The other ones I'd been using are Raven specialist hooks in size 12 for my smaller lures (1/12 oz kastmasters mainly). The eyes on these are pretty small, and only fit on the smallest split rings I could find. Still, they've caught me lots of high country trout.


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Post 13 Apr 2022, 12:15 • #4 
Guide
Joined: 09/11/19
Posts: 128
Location: Canada, Alberta
I was hoping to switch out the treble hooks on my 1/4 oz Kastmasters. Would a size #4 (which is the straight conversion size compared to the #8 on the Kastmasters) be a good switch, or would it be better to aim for smaller single hooks?
Thanks!
Jason


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Post 13 Apr 2022, 14:08 • #5 
Guide
Joined: 08/11/21
Posts: 131
Location: Tucson, AZ
A fishing guide buddy suggested pinching down 2 of the treble hooks, rather than exchanging single hooks for the treble.....it can throw off the balance of the lure by replacing them.

Lures must vary, so maybe this suggestion will not hold true in all cases, but it makes sense, given all the attention to performance of lures, especially crankbaits, in their design.


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Post 13 Apr 2022, 14:54 • #6 
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Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 18066
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
I prefer single hooks on plugs, especially on Duo Ryuki-S (above), and like the twin dancers on spoons.

Image
This plug is for bottom-bouncing, came with single hooks, but I swapped them for salt hooks.

Stick with the chart scale - this is how you get lure balance.


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Post 13 Apr 2022, 15:21 • #7 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 05/22/16
Posts: 1458
Location: SJC
You can also add another split ring to kastmasters to tweak the action for single hooks.

I have a few 1/4 oz, but I don't think I've ever tried catching trout on them. I would think #4 would be a little large unless you are targeting bass.

I'd probably switch to an 8 or 6 for trout, depending on the hook model; actual hook sizes often vary between manufacturers and specific models. It's probably worth experimenting a bit.


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Post 14 Apr 2022, 07:23 • #8 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 02/27/16
Posts: 1985
Location: US-IL
You can find some vintage mustad I believe seawash or something down to as 12.I have used them on some micro spoons I was screwing around with.A lot of ice fishing spoons have nice little single hooks on them.Fly hooks do not have the right type of eye to accommodate split rings.


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Post 21 Apr 2022, 11:31 • #9 
Guide
Joined: 09/11/19
Posts: 128
Location: Canada, Alberta
Thanks everyone!
I think I am going to buy these hooks to try.
In the area that we fish, the trout really like the 1/4oz Kastmasters.
Last decision is whether to get the size #4 or #6 hooks to replace the #8 trebles on the Kastmaster. I have read arguments for staying at #4 and benefits of going smaller with the single hook.



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Post 21 Apr 2022, 13:26 • #10 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 05/22/16
Posts: 1458
Location: SJC
I'd probably get a pack of each, just to look at them and try them out, but wow, those look kinda pricey.


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Post 21 Apr 2022, 15:11 • #11 
Guide
Joined: 09/11/19
Posts: 128
Location: Canada, Alberta
Living in Canada, it's actually a good price. Shipping is expensive now and I don't have much local options.
I took a look at ordering some Owner hooks and it would be x3 the cost to order half the amount of hooks.


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Post 21 Apr 2022, 16:57 • #12 
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Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 18066
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
Looks like they will work, but remember about working #0 and #1 split rings - there's only one tool, and only Smith at BFE has North American inventory, as far as I know.

Image Image


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Post 21 Apr 2022, 19:13 • #13 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 05/22/16
Posts: 1458
Location: SJC
I feel like the 1/4 oz kastmasters have #3 or 4 split rings (was just tweaking a new 1/8 oz the other day). I have some split ring pliers from American Fishing Wire that work just fine for those sizes. Fourteen bucks or so from fishusa dot com. I believe they also carry gamakatsu siwash hooks, and ship to Canada.


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Post 25 Apr 2022, 14:04 • #14 
Guide
Joined: 09/11/19
Posts: 128
Location: Canada, Alberta
You are correct. 1/4oz Kastmasters have size 3 split rings


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Post 07 May 2022, 08:17 • #15 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/05/06
Posts: 1835
Location: US-PA
A bunch of stupid questions and some observations:

A couple of videos I saw on the internet suggest that the single hook size I choose to replace my trebles should have a gape that approximates the total gape of the treble or point to point, not one point to the shank, hence the conversion tables.

Is this what you folks are doing?

If so, I can tell you conversion tables aside, when you eyeball it, the Owner Cultiva hooks I recently got in size 10 have a much smaller gape than the total gape of some of the smallest treble hooks I have on my in-line trout spinners that I am also hoping to replace.

In addition, are folks using the Owner Single Replacement Hooks - X-Strong, the Cultiva S21 or S-55M hooks for in-line spinners? I ask because the total hook length of the Cultiva S21’s (I don’t have any S-55M in hand yet) and Owner Single Replacement Hooks - X-Strong I have in hand are much longer overall than the treble hooks I am hoping to replace except in the smallest sizes. Adding a split ring for spinners makes them even longer...

Which bring me back to that gape-matching question. A smaller size hook is shorter and so are some some brands or models in the same size, but for the most part they all have a smaller gape versus a treble. Bottom line, does it matter if the hook is longer as long as the gape matches; or doesn’t the gape have to match?

Finally, what do folks do with dressed trebles on in-line spinners and plugs? The obvious answer is recreate the dressing on the single replacement hook however; none has a straight shank like a treble hook. Does that matter and will recreating the dressing on a curved hank hook throw off the balance and action of the lure?

Thanks in advance for any insight you can provide.


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Post 07 May 2022, 08:54 • #16 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 05/22/16
Posts: 1458
Location: SJC
My opinion is that conversion tables are just a starting point. Hooks in a given size vary between manufacturers and even models, as we all know.

When you think about what a fish hooked on a treble looks like and the damage it does, do you really want to use the same gape ? I only used trebles a few times and the way the fish looked afterwards made me rethink what I was doing (I rarely keep fish; your mileage may vary). Me, I just think about the target species and the hook I'd use if I were trying to catch it with a streamer or similar sinking fly

I just got in some C'ultiva SBL-51's in size 8 and compared them to the #8 Gamakatsu siwash hooks I'd been using for 1/6 oz Thomas Buoyant spoons. The gap looked about the same, and the length was close. The C'ultiva hooks were barbless and a bit finer wire, with a different shape. Close enough for me, let's see what the brown trout think ...

I have a few of the 55's and was planning on using them for some plugs /minnow type lures. They do seem to be shorter. Sounds like a good idea for your spinners, curious to hear how they work out.


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Post 07 May 2022, 09:49 • #17 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/05/06
Posts: 1835
Location: US-PA
As a kid I used to cut-off two of the points of my spinner trebles which had desired result of less less hang-ups, but the action was effected because the balance was thrown off.

Heck, I catch trout on size 32 hooks so I get the what's necessary thing, but I also have streamers in size 6 & 8 which seem to match the gape of a lot of the trebles and would probably balance better than if I replaced a size 12 treble hook with a size 12 single hook on an in-line spinner.

Plugs & spoons seem to be easier to figure out...

I don't have any S-55's in hand yet, but I'm hoping they are shorter than the S-21's I do have. I also reached out to Owner in the hopes they can clear up some of the differences in the replacement hooks other than the eye orientation and whether they are barbed or not.


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Post 07 May 2022, 11:51 • #18 
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Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 18066
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
here was my best lure on the Pedernales yesterday - it's not really gold, kind of puke-green enamel and gold on the inside.
Rodio Craft calls this transparent chartreuse.
The twin dancers make it seriously dance with a slow retrieve.



size 12 treble = size 8 single
size 10 treble = size 6 single
size 8 treble = size 4 single
size 6 treble = size 2 single
is this thing on?


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Post 07 May 2022, 13:57 • #19 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 02/27/16
Posts: 1985
Location: US-IL
I use a pretty unique tool for split rings,especially the smalles.It is a pick type tool on a plastic shaft. It has a pick on one end that has a tiny ball on the end and a flat tool on the other.I make a 100 chin spin or roadrunner type jigs in very small sixes mostly for deep crappies in big lakes.None of the plier type tools,which work very well for bigger lures is good or even usesable on the tiny split rings.I will post the name of the tool when i dig it out.


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Post 07 May 2022, 21:21 • #20 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 05/22/16
Posts: 1458
Location: SJC
Please don't confuse my opinion as being authoritative or worth anything ... I certainly don't know what I'm doing. I'm an engineer, so I like to tinker, experiment and find different ways of doing things, is all.

If in doubt, listen to bulldog :)


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Post 08 May 2022, 07:26 • #21 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/05/06
Posts: 1835
Location: US-PA
the hersh wrote:
I use a pretty unique tool for split rings,especially the smalles.It is a pick type tool on a plastic shaft. It has a pick on one end that has a tiny ball on the end and a flat tool on the other.I make a 100 chin spin or roadrunner type jigs in very small sixes mostly for deep crappies in big lakes.None of the plier type tools,which work very well for bigger lures is good or even usesable on the tiny split rings.I will post the name of the tool when i dig it out.

I have a bunch of dentist tools I got from friend/distributor that I use for some fly tying tasks that work great on tiny split rings which get stretched too far with any purpose made pliers or tweezers I've tried. Some of the scaling tools are thin & flat and in a pinch a dull #11 X-Acto blade in a handle works excellently to at least spread them just the right amount.

I also have a 3" pair of long nose pliers I modified the tips on with a Dremel that work great on the really tiny split rings.

The good news, at least with split rigs made of round wire is you can get them back in shape by rolling the wire sort of inside out and back to normal a few times with a pair of smooth jaw, fine tipped long nose pliers.


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Post 08 May 2022, 07:51 • #22 
Sport
Joined: 07/22/20
Posts: 90
Location: Ancient City, Florida
The tweezers Bulldog recommended really work well on all but the smallest snap rings. I use #6,8 hooks the most on the small lures. I probably lean towards the 6 for the size lures I use the most. Before, I would always cut off one or two barbs on the treble. I only use a tail hook these days.


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Post 27 May 2022, 09:26 • #23 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/05/06
Posts: 1835
Location: US-PA
After buying a S-load of different single hooks to swap out the trebles on hard baits, spoons & spinners including:

Owner Single Replacement
Cultiva S21
Cultiva S-55M
Gamakatsu Single Hook 53
Gamakatsu Siwash

The thing I immediately noticed is none of the aforementioned hooks have a shank as short as a treble, which is compounded with a split ring unless you use a replacement hook size smaller than the chart recommended replacement which is often not an available size. On small trout sized hard baits, this can mean hooks can tangle which is not a good thing,

This seems odd to me that a hook marketed as a single hook replacement wouldn't have a 1X or 2X short shank to mimic typical treble hooks.

I would love to find short shanked Siwash hooks in sizes from 10 on down because they would be ideal for trout sized in-line spinners that I ended up disassembling so I could avoid adding a split ring.

Any sources would be appreciated!!


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Post 27 May 2022, 12:17 • #24 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 18066
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
I'll let you know when my next .kiwi order gets here - I ordered some floating finesse plugs and threw in some Vanfook hooks.
Vanfook ME-41BL Minnow Expert M Heavy
Notably, these come in odd sizes including 3 and 5.



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Post 27 May 2022, 14:27 • #25 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 05/22/16
Posts: 1458
Location: SJC
I do find that sometimes single hooks tangle with the line on spoons. (shrug) Nine times out of ten, I don't really plan to keep the fish anyway, so it's not a huge deal to me. I just untangle and cast again ...

I don't really throw hard baits much, though I plan to start experimenting with a few (have some Jackson's and Tsurinoya's in the mail).


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