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Post 01 Jan 2022, 14:43 • #1 
New Member
Joined: 12/19/21
Posts: 11
Hello from Spokane. I'm new to this forum. I have a ridiculous number of fiberglass spinning and fly rods, including my first fiberglass fly rod, a Herter's my parents (Santa!) gave me for Christmas in 1962 when I was 12.

But my question for you all on this spinning rod page is whether you think it's a heinous sin to replace guide sets on 60s-70s Eagle Claw and Shakespeare "Wonderrod" (sp? I'm not out in the shop) rods with modern single foot guides, and maybe 30% more of 'em. I'm guessing one of the ways they kept prices down back then for these "budget" rods was to use cheesy guides and too few of 'em. I have a near-mint 8 1/2 foot Shakespeare with only 4 guides plus tip-top! I have a Wright & McGill and two Eagle Claws also 8 1/2 ft. long all of which have 5 guides plus tip tops, which is better. These are all good trolling rods for walleyes, rainbows and kokanee, with their softer tip actions. If it's a sin to upgrade the guides, I'll hold off. Some have to be replaced because the chrome is corroded and cracking. Cork and reel seats are good on all of them.

Then, of course there are the True Tempers, Fenwicks (Same question - those early ceramic guides on an 8 footer I have are bulbous and nasty...), just too many rods but I always like the right rod for the job at hand. When I fish these old rods I understand why they were great tools when I was a kid, and have seen a resurgence today. Really good actions, and very durable.


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Post 01 Jan 2022, 16:08 • #2 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19078
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
Well no.
If you have a collectible rod you want to keep it that way, do so.
If you have a rod you want to work on, make what you want with it.
If you want to cast braid, you can't use the original stainless or plated loop guides.
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I'm lucky with this late Falcon Glass - it's ready to go with Fuji guides - all I had to do was make make my Ambassadeur into a braid reel.
This remains the best glass bass rod I've ever fished, including Fenglas Lunkerstik and Lew's Speed Stick.
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I would wish this St. Croix Legend glass on anybody, and it came with modern micro running guides for braid.
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Post 01 Jan 2022, 16:19 • #3 
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Joined: 12/19/21
Posts: 11
Many thanks folks. That pretty much sezerall. I have garage/estate/pawnshop glass rods in poor shape I am completely redoing with modern components. Nothing "minty" on them to discard. If the ferrules are okay, I'll keep those but otherwise, it's down to the blank. And the point about braid and the older guides is kinda' crucial, since I fish mostly braid with mono and flouro topshots, maybe 12-14 feet or so, so I can retie multiple times before I have to do a new braid-to-mono FG knot.


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Post 01 Jan 2022, 16:26 • #4 
Administrator
Joined: 01/10/06
Posts: 7811
Location: Holly Springs, NC
Welcome to the Forum!

First and foremost - they are your rods to with as you please. We're not talking about spray painting a Fabergé Egg. We're talking old fishing rods. They were not made to last forever. If you would be happier with better guides, then by all means replace the guides. Grips, reelseats, ferrules, cork, etc. all of it is fair game to change and improve.

If the crux of your question is, "Am I ruining a valuable and/or collectible fishing rod by changing it?", in the vast, vast majority of cases the answer is no. These rods are still plentiful and cheap. Shakespeare, Fenwick, True Temper, Heddon, Eagle Claw, Garcia/Conolon, United Fiberglass, and all the rest made millions of fishing rods. These rods were produced rapidly with minimal skilled labor. A well used, inexpensive, factory rod can be viewed as fodder for your rod building endeavors.

When should you hesitate to rebuild a rod? If your rod was relatively expensive. If your rod was produced with hours of highly skilled labor. If your rod is one of a very limited number of examples. If your rod is still considered 'best of class' for the design. If you have a New-Old-Stock (NOS) production rod. Any such rods might be valuable, collectible, or both. With fiberglass/graphite/boron fishing rods, examples of such rods are extraordinarily rare.


Tom


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Post 01 Jan 2022, 18:51 • #5 
New Member
Joined: 12/19/21
Posts: 11
jgestar,

What a beautifully clear and informative reply! I'm just going to dive in on these rods. None are brand new. They all reflect someone's rather pensive life story, since the rods are 1960s and 1970s, but not much used. As you point out, even 40-50-60 years ago and made in the US, these things were intended and sold as commodities. On my so-called "minty" Eagle Claws and the Shakespeare Wonderrod, all 8 1/2 footers, I'm going to re-wrap them with appropriate number and spacing of modern guides. I'll probably use spar varnish on the wraps. I think I'll do the same with the Fenwick with the dorky early version ceramic guides. I'll keep the color schemes on them all.

For the Fenwick, does anyone know if that brown is still available? The Shakespeare maroon and Eagle Claw "Denco" red are easy replacements.

Many thanks for your advice and perspectives.

Doug


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Post 01 Jan 2022, 19:17 • #6 
Administrator
Joined: 01/10/06
Posts: 7811
Location: Holly Springs, NC
Spar varnish makes it easy to change the wraps at a later date. There are many forum threads about using spar (the forum search link is in the upper right corner). The most important factor is patience.

Fenwick brown is an interesting question (for example see this thread, viewtopic.php?f=33&t=70910). If you are going to re-wrap all the guides on a rod, pick your favorite variety of Fenwick brown and you will be close enough.


Tom


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Post 02 Jan 2022, 11:15 • #7 
New Member
Joined: 12/19/21
Posts: 11
Tom,

I don't know where the years went since I wrapped a half dozen fly rods and a spinning rod in the latter 1970s, on Lamiglas blanks. Well, I do know but still can't believe it. Anyhow, I used spar varnish on those rods. That's how you did it and it was all that was available. Decades before I bought a rod dryer motor no less! I used my copy of A. J. McClane's fishing encyclopedia to tension the thread on the wraps. Anyhow, those rods have held up well and the ease of guide removal compared to the epoxy finish I used on the offshore rods I wrapped over the past several years, is mainly why I figured varnish would be fine for these old spinning rods.

Doug


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Post 02 Jan 2022, 19:20 • #8 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 07/11/14
Posts: 1784
Location: urban Colorado
show your work, please ;-)
sound like fine old fishing rods, pics of the results will be good to see..

Quote:
the ease of guide removal compared to the epoxy finish I used on the offshore rods I wrapped over the past several years, is mainly why I figured varnish would be fine for these old spinning rods.


Good idea. Made the mistake of building a new glass blank with epoxy, decided I didn't like the job I did, but can't face the work of getting the epoxy off.. prefer varnish for everything, pretty much.

I have a Wonderod #1285L 7' rod from 1952 in color Green Jadite, unsanded with the spiral ridge, so it looks like one of the funky new colored glass blanks. The guides are grooved so really do need replacement, the cork handle is sadly worn and the slip rings do rather slip. I've been hesitating on the full rebuild even though the new singlefoot guides are sitting there on my workbench..



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Post 02 Jan 2022, 20:56 • #9 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/11/05
Posts: 1008
Location: US-NY
Since you plan to fish these rods, do whatever floats your boat. If, however, you ever decide to sell one of these rods at a later date, and would like to recover your investment in money and time, you can pretty much forget that.


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Post 03 Jan 2022, 02:02 • #10 
New Member
Joined: 12/19/21
Posts: 11
I'm 72 on January 10, 8 days from now. I'll just fish the rods, damn the resale value. Of course I'm no expert but I've built about a dozen glass and graphite rods, so I can do a decent job. None of these rods are in pristine new condition with hang tags, etc. The rods I'm contemplating for new guides are all mid or lower grade Eagle Claw, the Shakespeare Wonderod and several serial numbered Fenwicks. As an example, I have a recently acquired Eagle Claw "Denco" 8 1/2 foot spinner with a good stainless steel size 30 first guide. The rest of the guides are chromed steel, in varying degrees of irreparable corrosion from bad storage conditions. You know it's just lousy storage because of the clean, undamaged cork, and tarnish on the butt cap and ferrules. Once cleaned up, the ferrules show virtually no wear. Meaning the angler who bought this rod new, decades ago, with great dreams and intentions of splendid days on the water, did not realize those dreams. These 6 or 7 old rods are in generally good shape from lack of use, but have lousy, outmoded guides. The fiberglass blanks (and the angler!) deserve better!

Ironically, the happier stories perhaps lie behind my bundle of janked out, used to death 1950s-1960s glass spinners, and a couple of 6-7 wt. fly rods. I never questioned just diving in and totally rebuilding these things, grips, reel seats, guides and all.

If I die before them, my wife and our adult children will use their discretion for their ultimate liquidation. Our son and daughter in law are fanatical fly anglers, and they'll get whatever they want from my glass and graphite fly rod quiver. They'll distribute the rest to their angling cousins across this great nation, or put 'em on Fleabay.

And at Doug in Colorado's request, I'll post some photos of "before" and "after" as I wade through these project rods over the next year or two. There's an Airstream Globetrotter in need of "resto-mod", plus a lumberyard skiff with the resto-mod half finished. And if it's down to "Varnish the guide wraps or go fishing?", I'll be fishing first, varnishing second.

I'll close for now expressing my delight in discovering this great fiberglass fishing rod forum, because you guys all have such a treasure trove of expertise and experience about fiberglass fishing rods, from which we "late to the party" guys can benefit. Jeeze, I need all the help I can get!


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Post 03 Jan 2022, 10:36 • #11 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8920
Location: US-ME
Good! It's simple, really, They aren't valuable rods, so you can't hurt their value. If $ is a concern, whatever amount you guestimate is in them, deposit that in any growth mutual fund or ETF. Then you will have the $ plus its gains, and the rods whose worth has been in tinkering with them and fishing them.

Having slapdashed many a cheapo spinning rod, I'll give one no-big-deal caution. Some fuller flexing 'glass rods won't take well to single foot guides. The two feet of conventional guides help stabilize the flex and distribute the force under flex. More noticeable with soft full action fly rods, but something to consider. That said, I still use a Herter's kit spinning rod on a full flex blank that I rebuilt with single foots. I never liked it as well afterwards, but it is just a knockabout spinning rod, and I haven't changed it back to guides more like the originals I built it with. I think they were Aetna "foulproofs," or a knock-off but don't remember.


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Post 30 Jan 2022, 21:40 • #12 
New Member
Joined: 12/19/21
Posts: 11
So the single foot spinning guide sets at Mudhole.com have maybe 9-10 guides each. This is in the ballpark of twice as many guides as were found originally on these old rods. The older two-foot guides were heavier and take twice the labor to wrap on and then apply finish on the wraps. They could make these mid-grade rods more cheaply with on stripper, three or four running guides on the tip section, and the tiptop. Wright & McGill did it this way on all of my 8.5 footers and 8 footers. My 8.5 foot Shakespeare has a total of only 4 guides plus the tip top!! This can't possibly be the best performance arrangement on this otherwise estimable blank

My thought is that the rods might perform as well or better with 8-10 more closely spaced guides, IF the single foot guides when wrapped impart similar stiffness to the blank, in the aggregate. With titanium nitride coated stainless inserts, they are very light. This would be with contemporary guide spacing practice, i.e., one guide per foot of rod length plus one, and the tip top.

Also I just received an ancient W&McG "Granger" 8 footer in the mail Friday. I know, already broke my new Year's resolution of no more old rods until I re-wrap the ones I have! Anyhow the cork is basically perfect, and a surprising quality as well. Yet, the spiral stainless steel guides are all loose, and the stripper is missing. I like the progressive taper and quick recovery of this blank. Does anyone know when the "Granger" Wright & McGills were made? I would guess 60s, but don't know.


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Post 30 Jan 2022, 23:40 • #13 
Administrator
Joined: 01/10/06
Posts: 7811
Location: Holly Springs, NC
That sounds like a good plan. But don't spend more on guides than the rod is worth. Compared to the old guides, any new ceramic will give better performance. If you later feel 8-10 guides is too many, or you want micro guides, varnished wraps will come off easily.


Hopefully the W&M/Granger aficionados can tell you more about your new rod. W&M started making glass in the 50s and certainly used the Granger name into the 60s, if not longer. Granger was usually used on the nicer W&M rods. If your new rod has metal ferrules, it is earlier than the mid/late 70s when just about every company moved to tip-over-butt ferrules (or simply dropped glass for graphite).


Tom


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Post 31 Jan 2022, 08:09 • #14 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19078
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
I'd like to see photos, and I'm betting Granger glass was reserved for blanks they bought from Bill Phillipson.


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Post 31 Jan 2022, 13:44 • #15 
New Member
Joined: 12/19/21
Posts: 11
Okay, lemme' snap some shots with the iPhone and figure out how to upload here in my next post. All these older rods I have use metal ferrules, so aren't the tip-over-butt arrangement introduced by Fenwick. The blank color on the Granger rod is lighter than another W&McG rod I have. The latter rod is pretty much the brown color of the 1962 Herter's fly rod (8 ft., 7 wt.) I got for Christmas that year.

On the guide thing, since I bought a few relatively inexpensive sets for other rods I'm re-wrapping, I'm thinking to do similar with these more recent acquisitions. The running guides which go on the tip section are pretty small, and might be classified as "micro guides". My plan is for no more than about $20.00 per rod for guide sets, tip top, thread. I'm not counting U40 polyurethane varnish. I have way more Helmsman spar varnish than the law will allow, but want to try the U40 no-epoxy stuff.


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