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Re: new casting reel
Post 04 Aug 2020, 23:37 • #26 
Sport
Joined: 10/17/14
Posts: 68
Location: US-PA
Nice looking reels, especially with the aftermarket handles. I don't know if you noticed, but the two reels with black handles have mismatched sideplates, I'm guessing the right sideplates got taken off for cleaning and got put back on the wrong reels. One is from the mid to late 70's and has beveled sideplates, the other two are older and have grooved rims. The reel with the white handles is correct.

They look like they've been well taken care of, you should enjoy fishing them. I'm done buying reels, but if you decide to sell them, I have one or two correct factory handles I would trade for the power handles, if you want to return them to factory trim. Doesn't your son have any interest in them?

Tim


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Re: new casting reel
Post 04 Aug 2020, 23:45 • #27 
Sport
Joined: 10/17/14
Posts: 68
Location: US-PA
The reel on the right does have the clicker, it would be a 5000B. That reel came with the line-out alarm, deep spool, and a counter balanced handle.

Tim


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Re: new casting reel
Post 05 Aug 2020, 00:17 • #28 
Guide
Joined: 06/21/20
Posts: 141
Catfish dudes would like the 5000B, or one would think.


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Re: new casting reel
Post 05 Aug 2020, 07:42 • #29 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19076
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
I'll have one to add - I picked up the blue 6500 CT on ebay last night, and plan to totally pimp it.
Here's the preview photos

I love casting NLW, anyway - old Talbot, Meek, and Shakespeare.


Going to set up the CT with the stock spool for surf, and a shallow spare spool for inshore light braid, and tinker with casting UL.
Though I bought it more for the tinkering project than surf fishing - I can use the surf fishing to justify it. :hat

and Tim, I forgot to mention - those fat pearly knobs on your gorgeous green reel in your OP make it the still sharpest reel posted so far.


Last edited by bulldog1935 on 05 Aug 2020, 11:47, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: new casting reel
Post 05 Aug 2020, 09:55 • #30 
Master Guide
Joined: 04/07/18
Posts: 382
Location: Reston VA
WalleyeJoe,

Sharp eye! I changed the side plates back to where they belong. Thanks for the observation.

The expertise on this site is astounding. I bet someone out there can date the serial #s on the reels. The two with Zorro speed handles are #730301 and #741103. The one with factory handles is #815996.

I'm going to move them on since its more than a decade since I have done any bait casting. And my son is into spin fishing.

Not interested in big $. I'd be happy with $100 clear for the 3 reels and two extra spools after shipping costs. Just getting getting them back in action would be a kick. What's a good sales venue for such reels? I don't do EBAY.

Heddonist


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Re: new casting reel
Post 05 Aug 2020, 10:28 • #31 
Guide
Joined: 06/21/20
Posts: 141
Ah yes, the knuckle-busters. So many to play with. I have a few including a Rocket, Summit and Trump from Pflueger and a 1940s Bronson Mercury.



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Re: new casting reel
Post 05 Aug 2020, 10:56 • #32 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19076
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
I have a diminutive Shakespeare free spool that the handle pulls out to disengage. It will cast 1/8 oz on 4-lb silk


Also the 1st model Supreme Douglas patent freespool - also anti-reverse - it's a shame Pflueger didn't keep and modify this design after Marhoff's patent expired for their use - this is a much better reel. The arrow knob on the backplate is a spring and cam casting brake that works very well.
The LW mechanism is cool, also. The line guide drops out of the way to cast. On retrieve, it pushes the line to one of the yokes on either side; the yoke lifts the line and drops it into the line guide.


Last edited by bulldog1935 on 06 Aug 2020, 08:24, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: new casting reel
Post 05 Aug 2020, 11:50 • #33 
Guide
Joined: 06/21/20
Posts: 141
Slick. Not many freespoolers in that era. Gonna spool up the Summit and put it on a W&M baitcaster. Should be fun. I have another longer W&M rod coming that will pair with the Rocket. Or maybe I'll use this Heddon Pal rod. Check out those stainless steel wraps!



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Re: new casting reel
Post 05 Aug 2020, 12:35 • #34 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19076
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
One postwar Marhoff variant I really like is Pflueger Skilkast, here matched with Heddon Pal.

A third model Supreme on American Fork & Hoe square section steel - this is a great rod

And a dressy Marhoff with marbled bakelite plates on Montague Flash cane - this is the rod I prefer with the little Shakespeare Tournament freespool.


The all-time easy distance cast champ (really more of a slow lob) is the Chubb Henshall rod with Bluegrass 33

I have a buddy who's a BASS Pro - took the last rod to a July 4th BBQ at his house, staffed with other bass pros, and they had a blast lawn-casting it.


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Re: new casting reel
Post 05 Aug 2020, 13:13 • #35 
Guide
Joined: 06/21/20
Posts: 141
Some beauties there! Nice progression in materials too: cane > steel > fiberglass.

I have an aluminum rod from Airex, the late 40s/early 50s Durod. Seems like aluminum never caught on as fiber came on the scene.


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Re: new casting reel
Post 05 Aug 2020, 13:38 • #36 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19076
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
aluminum just isn't a good spring, which you need in a rod - steel and beryllium-copper are the winners as metal rods go.


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Re: new casting reel
Post 05 Aug 2020, 17:06 • #37 
Guide
Joined: 06/21/20
Posts: 141
Seems to make for a pretty nice light/ultralight rod though. Doesn't rust!

Here it is paired with an Airex Vagabond.






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Re: new casting reel
Post 05 Aug 2020, 17:50 • #38 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19076
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
excellent condition
here's the paper on your rod. The catalog-flyer came inside a Bache Brown Mastereel box - $23.75 was a Lot of money in 1951.
The Bache Brown was the Luxor, made under license by Airex. However, you could get the French-made Luxor for $ 9 less then, and they're better made reels.
But especially in the postwar marketing image, US-made was better (it wasn't)

Here's the 1937 Luxor, which was my older daughter's go-to reel on a 4-1/2' Airex solid glass rod - next to it, the postwar flip bail on the H-I Star rod I've mentioned a few times - the bail function and smoothness puts a Mitchell to shame.


here you go, the centrifugal brake that was too good - Redifor, which Pflueger instantly bought up for this patent, 1915.

There are two pawls inside the spool, which rub on the spool frame. It absolutely prevents backlash, but costs cast distance.
Both Meek and Talbot used oil whirl for anti-backlash, and most people with these reels haven't figured that out. Before each trip, you fill the oil reservoirs. You can hear the oil whirl working in your cast, and it works so hard, the oil evaporates.

Next to it is the lowly Shakespeare Alamo, c. 1905. The thing about Shakespeare NLW reels in the ninteen-naughties and teens, from the very cheapest, they all had great bushings - Pflueger couldn't touch Shakespeare for quality until after WWII, when Pflueger quality out-distanced Shakespeare.


Last edited by bulldog1935 on 05 Aug 2020, 22:41, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: new casting reel
Post 05 Aug 2020, 21:59 • #39 
Guide
Joined: 06/21/20
Posts: 141
From my research, the Durod was produced from 1949 to 1954/55. It's not listed in the 1955 Airex catalog.

I have two of the Master Reels, a Spinster, a Vagabond and the Apache. There's a good book on Bache Brown, "
Bache Hamilton Brown: The Father of Spin Fishing in America," by Robert Halver. He was a rather interesting gentleman.

Any way, I've strayed too far from the OP and bait casting. Maybe a separate thread is needed.


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Re: new casting reel
Post 05 Aug 2020, 23:08 • #40 
Sport
Joined: 10/17/14
Posts: 68
Location: US-PA
BD, thanks for the compliment, you know, with the gazillion aftermarket handles available for Ambassadeurs, you would think someone would recreate the old power handles, oh well.

Nice looking reel you're buying, pretty ambitious getting a NLW reel, I don't think I could fish with one, I'm too absent minded and careless, it would be a disaster, plus I'm only comfortable palming reels, I'd be the one-legged man at the a## kicking contest trying to palm that and laying down the line at the same time. I have a box of Ambassadeur parts coming in the mail, when they arrive I'll post a picture, see if you can guess what they are.

I don't have much to add about the old time baitcasters, but I'm surprised no one mentioned one of the best old free spool reels, the J A Coxe 25, or as they say on Ebay, the Jaloxe. I had a 25N, one of the later aluminum ones, not the German silver, sweet little reel, light as a feather, I think they were popular with tournament casters. I do have a steel rod though, American Fork and Hoe, I think it was intended for the Florida market, catch bass with it and then beat cottonmouths and alligators to death when they attack you.

Anyways, it was too nice to stay in, so I took the new reel out tonight. I didn't catch anything but I did take a few pictures of my little corner of the world and my reel. Hope all is well with everyone.

Tim







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Re: new casting reel
Post 06 Aug 2020, 08:30 • #41 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19076
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
gorgeous photos - and there's that power handle.

It was Lew's reels in the 90s that aimed me to NLW - that's what Lew and Shimano did, turned LW baitcasters into NLW only when they cast. Before Lew's, the last LW reel to do that was the 1918 Douglas patent 1st model Pflueger Supreme.
Both on contemporary glass rods, Lami and Falcon

here's my Seigler lever drag - 450 yds 30-lb - also on glass, TD Platinum
the cool thing about simple lever drag, the one drag does everything, casting, pay, and set


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Re: new casting reel
Post 06 Aug 2020, 08:30 • #42 
Sport
Joined: 10/17/14
Posts: 68
Location: US-PA
That's a nice looking rod, I didn't know any were made of aluminum, but you probably want to heed Bulldogs advice. Do you remember the Wham-o toy company? They made a crossbow with an aluminum prod (bow), that had a habit of failing catastrophically. I'm not saying you're in any danger, just considering how few of those rods probably exist, do you want to watch it self-destruct? But comparing it weight-wise to other contemporary rods, I can see how it would have been attractive.

Tim


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Re: new casting reel
Post 06 Aug 2020, 09:13 • #43 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19076
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
unlike steel, aluminum doesn't have an endurance limit, so it Will eventually fatigue crack, by definition, just a matter of load and number of load cycles.
Steel, on the other hand, has a stress value below which it will never accumulate damage to form a crack, short of changing conditions such as corrosion damage. On the atomic scale, it's because the steel crystal structure pins the motion of crystallographic imperfections, making it monolithic below that stress value. I know you guys didn't need to know that, but it applies to steel and aluminum bicycle frames, as well.

here's Pflueger's first Marhoff copy, c. 1928, the nickel-silver Summit - it's the amber handles that give away these prewar reels


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Re: new casting reel
Post 06 Aug 2020, 10:37 • #44 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 07/11/14
Posts: 1784
Location: urban Colorado
nice to see the reel getting used.. The rod looks good too, didn't know Eagle Claw made heavy rods like that, hadn't seen one of those before.

We used to fish NLW baitcasters for beach/surf fishing, as LWs didn't survive the conditions, blowing sand and salt would gum up the works PDQ..
Surprisingly you get used to the line lay and it soon becomes semi-automatic.

here's my freespool Shakespeare, sits on my desk as a kind of fidget spinner..





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Re: new casting reel
Post 06 Aug 2020, 10:56 • #45 
Guide
Joined: 06/21/20
Posts: 141
Beautiful shots. Looks like a great fishing location.

The aluminum rod is not going to get used much. I'll probably take it out once a year and catch a few bluegills or crappies with it and then put it back in the rack. It does bend nicely though.



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Re: new casting reel
Post 06 Aug 2020, 12:14 • #46 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19076
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
Doug, nice 1740 - tiny reel, light aluminum spool, cork arbor, and the last Tournament Free Spool model.
You get into the line winder habit with NLW. If you're using silk, you need to dry your line, anyway, but you use the line winder to wind down the reel to your working point and restore a good level wind for next time - tight lay in one direction, fast lay in the other.
Speaking of which, the Seigler spool is designed so it automatically lays the tight lay in one direction - when you retrieve, you simply thumb the fast lay in the other.

Just got the email from my ebay seller that the Blue Abu CT is in the mail - my birthday present to me this month.
Also after some digging, been able to date the Blue Elite CT to 1995, in between the Sports Rocket CT and the CT mag elite.
It has ultracast spool, roller bearing clutch, a real shortage of plastic, and will give me a lot of options setting it up. I should be able to set up whatever version of the centrifugal casting brake I want 2-pin, 4-pin, 6-pin, and there's even two choices on Avail mag add-on, one that fits out of the way inside the backplate, another that fits inside their shallow microcast spool.

oh yeah, one more edit - add this link http://www.realsreels.com/customABUReco ... Brown.html
All the variations on this reel made it tough to pin down, compounded by the newer C3CT Blue Yonder closing out, and the fact the original C3CT was sold as Blue Yonder in half the world, and Elite in the other half.
These reels have their greatest following in UK and Oz, with a good east coast surf presence, as well.



Last edited by bulldog1935 on 07 Aug 2020, 07:24, edited 7 times in total.

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Re: new casting reel
Post 06 Aug 2020, 14:17 • #47 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 02/12/16
Posts: 4093
Location: USA-CO
Nice reels, all. Doug, nice Parker 75 too.


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Re: new casting reel
Post 11 Aug 2020, 16:00 • #48 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19076
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
Received 1995 Ambassadeur 6500 C3 CT Blue Yonder non-level-wind today.
Used two cameras for two quick rounds of photos, cherry-picked the best.


(ok, edited and sneaked in that last photo a day later)

today my barstock frames shipped from the UK.
I'm going to build one of these reels at the 6500 width, and the second as a 5500 with shallow spool for braid inshore - in addition to the frame, the only parts needed are the blank modular spool and blank spindle.


Last edited by bulldog1935 on 11 Aug 2020, 18:42, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: new casting reel
Post 11 Aug 2020, 17:15 • #49 
Sport
Joined: 10/17/14
Posts: 68
Location: US-PA
Nice looking reel. Do you ever test any of your reels for casting distance? I would be curious to see how it compares to similar older reels, I expect it would shade them by at least a little bit, probably a lot.

You are replacing the frame with barstock, I guess you're planning to switch the sideplates between the different frames. Now, I'm sure you know more about these reels than I do, this looks like an ultra cast reel, I seem to remember some of them had springy axles, this isn't one of them? Or was that never a problem in the first place, just something started by someone who didn't know any better, there's always a lot of that to go around.

Anyways, looks like you're going to have a lot of fun with this, enjoy it.

Tim


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Re: new casting reel
Post 12 Aug 2020, 07:28 • #50 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19076
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
Hi Tim,
yes, it's Ultracast (modular spools, origin 1990).
Since it doesn't have an idler, and this version of the clicker takes up little space, there's room inside the backplate for the Avail mag add-on (both reels).
On the 5500, I'm going to defeat the clicker, anyway, changing the spool cog to the Mike's cog with abec-7 ceramic bearings eliminating cog drag.
On the 6500, I'm going to keep the clicker, for both surf and trolling, and switch to an avail POM (delrin) spool cog.
The 5500 gets 4-pin Avail centrifugal brake, and the 6500 gets the Abu 6-pin.
I'll be throwing 1/8- to 3/8-oz on the 5500, and 1 to 4 oz on the 6500.
Both get abec-7 ceramic spool berings.
Basically, I'm going to move the existing spools into cans and build complete new (slicker) spools.

Planning to fish 20-lb braid on both, and both get 5-mm-deep Avail microcast spools.
My back yard is 150' wide, which won't be enough to test these reels, but I fish some wide cuts at the coast, where you measure cast by fish.
Image
Best caster I have currently is my Lew's Super Duty. I can tell a lot by how the empty spools spin in comparison, and hopefully I'll get forever-spin spool so setting the mag (under the backplate) will not be too much guessing.
Image

Here's the handle I picked out for the 5500 -
Image the 6500 is going to get my favorite gomexus/livre mod that I used on my Tica Caiman (except blue)
each of my new handles with knobs weighs weighs exactly 20 grams, and both reels are going to loose a half-pound with the steel handles.
I'm going to begin a separate thread to show both reels and document the work - right now, have one reel in hand, second reel in Miami Customs, and all my parts ordered.

Not the best example to show, but here's the Akios barstock frame - mine will be silver.
Image
For a limited run, Akios offered the barstock frame for level-wind Ambassadeurs - those are probably gold-weight-value now.

Adding a ps here, if any of you guys have 2500, 3600, 1500 Ambassadeurs, you can get some really great parts from Japan to not only slick up the spool, but decrease level-wind inertia to increase cast.
https://japantackle.com/tuning-parts/br ... r.html?p=2
Of course that's the reason the Japan market has sent the cost of those used reels to the stratosphere.


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