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new casting reel
Post 28 Jul 2020, 23:10 • #1 
Sport
Joined: 10/17/14
Posts: 68
Location: US-PA
I'm not sure too many people will be interested in this, but I'm tickled with my new reel and just want to share. This is my latest, favoritest, and hopefully last reel. What it is, is an Ambassadeur 5500D that I converted into a 6500D. This is the third conversion I've done, and is the nicest. The other two are functionally excellent but look a little worn.

My first two, I combined 5000D's with 6000C's to get wide spooled direct drive reels. This one, I bought a spool, frame and a few other parts to stretch a 5500D. The impetus for this reel was a satin silver frame from Jerry Foran, I found a bargain priced 5500D that was in really nice condition and I was set.

Now all I have to do is wrap some new guides on a rod thats been waiting and I'll be set.

Tim




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Re: new casting reel
Post 29 Jul 2020, 06:29 • #2 
Guide
Joined: 03/08/14
Posts: 243
Location: US-MO
That's really cool, I didn't even know you could do that.


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Re: new casting reel
Post 29 Jul 2020, 10:59 • #3 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19077
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
a buddy bought up every 5501 he could get his hands on.
I would think the narrow reel would be better for most fishing.
I fished the same size (6H) Millionaire in the surf until the sand ate the worm gear.


Last edited by bulldog1935 on 02 Aug 2020, 10:17, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: new casting reel
Post 29 Jul 2020, 22:53 • #4 
Sport
Joined: 10/17/14
Posts: 68
Location: US-PA
Depending on what kind of conversion you want, it can be done quite simply. It gets a little complicated when you mix spools from different reels. In the 70's, ABU had 4 different spools for their 6000 sized reels, each had its own pinion gear, plus two different yokes, two different bearings, and two conversion pinion gears. Its just a matter of getting the correct parts together.

Here in Western Pennsylvania, there's not a lot of need for this size reel, locally, I could probably use a 4500 on everything with the right line. You would really only need a bigger reel if you were fishing for flathead catfish, or traveling to Raystown for striped bass, or maybe Erie for steelhead.

I use these size reels for musky fishing, the extra line capacity is just to keep the spool full when fishing heavy dacron line, my experiences with muskies is you don't get any long runs. Actually, I really don't need the extra capacity on this reel, it will be spooled with 20# micron, I just wanted it. I've been chasing reels for 40 years, I finally got the one that is perfect, to me anyways.

Tim


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Re: new casting reel
Post 30 Jul 2020, 06:50 • #5 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19077
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
Akios makes some functional aftermarket parts for these reels, from one-piece frames to stainless steel gears, and add-on centrifugal casting brake.
Stainless steel gears have the advantage that they don't wear, they just work-harden.


Last edited by bulldog1935 on 02 Aug 2020, 10:16, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: new casting reel
Post 01 Aug 2020, 23:04 • #6 
Guide
Joined: 06/21/20
Posts: 141
Congratulations! Very nice. Love those old Abu reels. I have a 1969 5000C and a 1973 5000. Got them paired with appropriately vintage fiberglass rods - a Silaflex and a Garcia Ambassadeur.






That's not the stock handle on the 5000C. I'm going to pimp it some!


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Re: new casting reel
Post 01 Aug 2020, 23:52 • #7 
Sport
Joined: 10/17/14
Posts: 68
Location: US-PA
Nice. The rods match up nice with the reels. Its funny, when people post pictures of their vintage casting outfits, its always with one handed casting rods. I started using casting tackle for bass in the mid 80's, I had a 4600CB and a 6 1/2' rod I built on a Gary Loomis blank with a long handle, and ever since then I've used casting rods with two handed handles. I had a couple of rods with short handles but never used them, they just don't feel right to me. The Loomis blank was rated for 1/2 to 1 1/2 oz lures and was the closest thing to an all purpose casting rod I owned. Anything from 1/2 oz bass lures to 2 1/4 oz musky lures, my son has it now.

What are you planning to do with the reels? I know there's lots of upgrade parts out there, the only upgrades I've done to mine are the handles, I like the old 70's power handles.

Tim


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Re: new casting reel
Post 02 Aug 2020, 08:48 • #8 
Guide
Joined: 06/21/20
Posts: 141
I don't plan anything too extravagant for the mods. I will probably do the bearings on the level wind mod and better spool bearings. If I really get crazy, I'll get the high speed gear set (I think that they are available for the 5000). If not, a 5500C might be in my future.

The red 5000 will remain untouched. It's pretty clean and I won't fish much with it. If I do trick out the black 5000C, it will mostly be used for weightless worms. In that case, I'll probably keep the 3.8:1 gears in it. Gotta fish those worms SLOW!

Yea, that short handle on the Silaflex is not the most comfortable. Haven't used the Ambassadeur rod enough yet to get a feel for it. I don't generally throw anything over 1/2 oz, so the need for two-handed casting has been minimal.


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Re: new casting reel
Post 02 Aug 2020, 13:56 • #9 
Sport
Joined: 10/17/14
Posts: 68
Location: US-PA
Yeah, bearing upgrades are all the rage, if you read the "reel clinic" forums, everybody is souping up their reels. Personally, I don't see a lot of benefit for my fishing. All these bearing upgrades work well for competitive distance casting, not so much for me. I have a 4500C I gave a tune-up, cleaned all the old oil and grease out, I relubed the bearings and levelwind with Hot Sauce or Rocket Fuel, and ended up with a reel that was too fast. The lures I was using (big wooden vamps, palomines, injured minnows, etc) don't fly well, and I just had more problems with backlashes. The braided dacron I was using probably didn't help either, but I don't use the modern miracle braids, I understand they're really tough on chrome plated guides.

If you decide to speed up the gears, I don't think there are any kits left, except for the ones that occasionally come up on Ebay, but the gears are still available from repair shops, figure about $20 plus shipping. You didn't mention the drags, but I wouldn't fish an Ambassadeur without replacing the stock washers with carbon fiber washers, Cal's drag grease too. The reels I had from the 80's had good drags, but the earlier reels were terrible, carbon washers are a guaranteed improvement.

The rod handles are a funny thing, I generally cast one handed regardless of lure weight, I palm the reels and just like the longer handle to brace against my body or forearm when I'm retrieving.

Tim


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Re: new casting reel
Post 02 Aug 2020, 16:38 • #10 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19077
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
There are coated braids, and one is very cost effective - YoZuri.
I still don't fish them on my baitcasters, prefer working mono/fluoro, but with comparable-test braid as backing to increase the capacity.
E.g., I have 400 yds on this Tica Caiman 150, set up for offshore jigging, 300 yds 20-lb braid beneath, and 100 yds 20-lb Blue Label fluoro on top.
The 150 is basically the same spool width and capacity as the Abu 6000C.

This is also basically a reverse-engineered Abu with 10 ball bearings added including roller bearing anti-reverse. Something nice for a salt/trolling reel, it has a good pay clicker. Also interesting, a youtube takedown guy stated these were once made in Kent, WA before moving offshore to China mfg.

I bought the reel for inshore back-up, but have become so spoiled by modern reels that disengage the line guide rider during cast (Lew's), I hated casting 1/4-oz lures with it.
Didn't want it to go to waste, so set it up with a light jigging rod. The whole rig is surprisingly light in hand for anything offshore. And it casts 2-oz slow jigs great.

That was another reason I used the Millionaire 6H in the surf - it would out-cast spinning tackle with a 2-oz spider weight and another 2-oz of cut bait.
However, it would also free-shrimp with the best, so there's still an advantage to the casting brake adjustment in the old Abu design over the more modern Tica variant. Could also be the older design simply has two casting brake shoes instead of six. I've never fished a Calcutta, so can't say what Shimano did with it.

I do the same braid backing on inshore reels, here's 120-yd capacity reel upped to 200-yd by backing with YoZuri braid


Last edited by bulldog1935 on 03 Aug 2020, 07:26, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: new casting reel
Post 02 Aug 2020, 18:09 • #11 
Master Guide
Joined: 04/07/18
Posts: 382
Location: Reston VA
So who knew there was still an interest in the old AG 5000 bait casters?

Somewhere in the basement I have a couple or three all oiled up and put away. All have seen use and show it, but were not abused. Most have speed gears and large handles but, as i recall, there are some tool kits with the old factory gears and spare parts around too....

A few years ago I did sell a few 2500Cs which once were my hands down favorites for plastic worm fishing. I could flip a barely weighted worm with my Fenwick 636 custom glass rods with the greatest accuracy.

I well remember 50 + years ago buying them each year at an Atlas Sporting Goods George Washington's Birthday Half Price Sale -- $25.00.

I'll do a search and inventory. Anyone here interested can PM me for details in a few days. If not, it will be good therapy just taking them out again.

Heddonist


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Re: new casting reel
Post 02 Aug 2020, 23:42 • #12 
Guide
Joined: 06/21/20
Posts: 141
walleyejoe wrote:
Yeah, bearing upgrades are all the rage, if you read the "reel clinic" forums, everybody is souping up their reels. Personally, I don't see a lot of benefit for my fishing. All these bearing upgrades work well for competitive distance casting, not so much for me. I have a 4500C I gave a tune-up, cleaned all the old oil and grease out, I relubed the bearings and levelwind with Hot Sauce or Rocket Fuel, and ended up with a reel that was too fast. The lures I was using (big wooden vamps, palomines, injured minnows, etc) don't fly well, and I just had more problems with backlashes. The braided dacron I was using probably didn't help either, but I don't use the modern miracle braids, I understand they're really tough on chrome plated guides.


I've wondered about that. I've dialed in the settings on the 5000C such that I can throw a 3/8 oz Dark Sleeper as far as I want and not a hint of backlash. Took a while. I've only been using bait casters for a little over a year, so lots to learn on set up and use. Snagged a small bass with it tonight and had a larger one jump off on me.



Seems the only area where better and more bearings might help is with lighter lures. But I have a modern, low-profile baitcaster for that, complete with ABEC7 bearings and a lightweight spool.

Good tip on the drag upgrade. That is an easy one!


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Re: new casting reel
Post 03 Aug 2020, 06:22 • #13 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19077
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
Heddonist, if you go to the trouble to dig them out, you should photo and post on this thread.
$25 sale price was still a lot of money 50 years ago - houses cost $12,000 then.

and Tim, I linked above to new stainless gears for old Abu sold from the UK.


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Re: new casting reel
Post 03 Aug 2020, 06:41 • #14 
Master Guide
Joined: 04/07/18
Posts: 382
Location: Reston VA
Bulldog,

My initial archeological dig into the deep recesses of forgotten old gear last night turned up 3 AG 5000s and two extra spools. No sign yet of the tool cases. The cases may be in a portable fishing chest I let my son use.

I'm also rooting around for some unused steelhead/salmon flies to send to a young Ranger rotating back from Afghanistan this fall, so they may turn up yet.

I'll do the photos of the 5000s and post them as suggested.


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Re: new casting reel
Post 03 Aug 2020, 09:07 • #15 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19077
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
In the lull between Abu contributions, and since I mentioned jigging, wanted to share this coolest aftermarket idea ever.
Unfortunately, it only fits Shimano Ocean Conquest, and that's the only reel that has room between the spool shaft and handle drive shaft to let it fit and function.

It goes on the spool tension cap. You pre-set it to your casting brake tension adjustment.
It then gives you a thumb lever to relax that tension and instantly return to it.
Say you cast out a slow jig and want it to sink to 40' for suspended depth fishing - when it hits the water, the relaxed tension, modulated by your thumb, will let the jig sink quickly without spool drag. Gives you a fishing advantage of lever drag in a star drag level-wind.
So if you have this $500 reel and want to make it better...it's a $30 part 8)


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Re: new casting reel
Post 03 Aug 2020, 17:04 • #16 
Sport
Joined: 10/17/14
Posts: 68
Location: US-PA
Hi, I saw the website, those gears are for newer reels. As far as I know, and I could be wrong, ABU, or anyone else, never made gears faster than 4.7 for the older reels. The number of people, like me, who actually fish with them, isn't enough for anyone to bother making gears for them.

The 5.3 and faster gears that are out there are either factory replacement parts for newer reels, or upgrades for people that want to turn baitcasters into billfish reels. Apparently, if your bass reel doesn't have 30 pounds of drag, you'll never catch anything, and that kind of stress is tough on brass gears. That's why Akios is selling steel gears.

Tim


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Re: new casting reel
Post 03 Aug 2020, 18:17 • #17 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19077
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
some serious extrapolation there - when you mash brass gears, you simply brinnell them out of shape. When you mash stainless gears, you improve them.
TX PE No. 75665 (if you look it up, you'll find engineering license, discipline: Metallurgy).
They did state specifically the gears they offer are for Abu 5500 and 6500. While I don't have one to rebuild, it is the OP of the thread. You may be correct the 5.3 gears are only for C3 models.
It's nice to be able to take light-in-hand tackle offshore, catch kings, jacks, snapper, and maybe cobia, and not worry you'll destroy your reel.
My Mitchell 300 was worn out in 4 years catching fall spanish macks from the jetties as a teenager.
Still, it's no shame fishing your reels out of use, especially if that moves you on to Penn, etc.

There are some Japanese makers such as Valley Hill that offer very nice upgrades for the older reels, including delrin gears with built-in BB for the worm drive, ceramic pawls, and 440 stainless worm gear to match those pawls. That would have saved my old Millionaire, which Daiwa didn't support after 1980.

No one needs 30 lbs drag for almost any fishing (that's 120-lb line), nor does anyone set their drag that high - but it's nice to know that the reliable 5-lbs drag you may need will be there and not fade.
Especially with spinning reels, if they're designed for 24-lb drag, you can expect the spindle has the stiffness to not deflect under high drag load and the gear sets at the other end of the lever arm on that long spindle are designed for the contact loads.
Even my Seigler lever drag is set to 7 lbs with spring scale, and I have the ability to increase it somewhat over that pushing the strike button to move lever farther past its set point.


Last edited by bulldog1935 on 04 Aug 2020, 05:40, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: new casting reel
Post 03 Aug 2020, 20:43 • #18 
Sport
Joined: 10/17/14
Posts: 68
Location: US-PA
You're right, they do say 6500's, it's just that ABU has never stopped making them since the first one, I think they got a major overhaul in 88 and changed the gears then. I also think that's when they introduced the 5.3 sprint reels.

No, I understand what you're saying about light tackle, I've done the same thing. I was exaggerating about billfishing, and I hope you don't think anything I said was directed at you, but I frequent some other forums and you see a lot of nonsense there. Most people aren't as thoughtful about their tackle as you.

It seems to me, a lot of this stuff started with the new superlines. If you can get a couple hundred yards of 80 or 100# line on your reel, why not? And whats the point in using 100# line if you've only got 8 pounds of drag? So these guys crank the drags on their 6500's up to 30# or whatever. You can get new Ambassadeur 6500's with 20# drags from the factory. 100# line, 30# of drag and a big saltwater fish on the end of their line and what do you think happens to their 6500? If that sounds ridiculous, how many people have you seen with spinning reels mounted on upside down casting rods, or fishing spinning reels upside down so they can retrieve with their right hand? So Akios sells steel gears and barstock aluminum frames to beef up your 6500 so they don't self-destruct. 6500's seem to be the darlings of the competitive distance casting crowd, so a lot of surfcasters are following suit and using them for whatever.

Musky fishermen aren't much different. 9' surf rods, 100# or heavier line, 6 - 12 oz lures, they just go with bigger, heavier reels, to avoid breaking them. But they're looking for the same heavy drag. If you've ever caught muskies, you know they have really hard mouths, its difficult to get a good hookset, so you want as little drag slippage as possible when you set the hook. Old timers would tighten the drags on 6000's and 6500's with pliers so they wouldn't slip, when the fish ran they would press the freespool button and play them with their thumb.

Tim


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Re: new casting reel
Post 03 Aug 2020, 21:52 • #19 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19077
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
Guys who bottom-fish oyster inshore can justify 40-lb braid, but I fish grassy water, and 15-lb braid - or 12-lb fluoro on my baitcasters - is all I need.
I see these same guys recommending their 40-lb braid and over-sized tackle to inshore beginners, so I understand exactly what you're saying. I guess everybody has to work out what works for them, but I do like a little sport in my sport, and running fish is part of that.
I also know about the casting brake crank down - every few years i've had to fabricate my dad spindle pads from phosphor bronze sheet for his Lew's, because he wears through them by cranking down the knob tension.
The thing is, when you match the proper rod to throw 1/4- and 3/8-oz lures, if you set your drag to 5 lbs or more, you're simply going to destroy the rod.
I'm still fishing a GL2 from the 90s that caught kings on 12-lb mono and a Penn 4400 SS - similar to the Abu's, that 90's Penn spinner couldn't deliver more than 3-4 lbs drag, anyway.

As far as the heavy hookset, sharp hooks and thumb on spool is all you need, spinning or bait reel - also another advantage of modern braid - virtually zero stretch - in fact, you normally fish with a higher-test fluoro shock tippet to give you some stretch and shock forgiveness.


Last edited by bulldog1935 on 04 Aug 2020, 05:34, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: new casting reel
Post 03 Aug 2020, 22:31 • #20 
Guide
Joined: 06/21/20
Posts: 141
I think that power fishing bass tournament style has led a lot of those just fishing for fun down the heavy tackle road. I don't think it makes sense. Sure, the tournement guys want to cover tons of water. And when they hook a fish, the want to get it in the boat as fast as possible. Time is money. But when weekend warriors fish that way, they miss out on the fight and the finer points of using the rod and the drag to fight the fish and save the line and the reel.

Fifty pound braid and 10:1 gears are becoming fairly common in the bass world. Seems a long way from the stately 3.8:1 speed of the old Abu reels. :P

I fish nearly exclusively UL, so I've moved the other way.


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Re: new casting reel
Post 03 Aug 2020, 23:05 • #21 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 07/11/14
Posts: 1784
Location: urban Colorado
that's a gorgeous reel.. always liked the looks of the green D series. Very nice..
direct drive for muskies ? seems hardcore..

I had a 5000C stolen, bought a new Abu 323 which wasn't very good at all..
bought an older 5000C a couple years back, and it seems they still work ;-)



this one could definitely use the drag upgrade, may do that next.

the rod is a Japanese something, used to fish it with a spincaster as a kid. Really like the action so kept it and rebuilt for light baitcasting..


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Re: new casting reel
Post 03 Aug 2020, 23:59 • #22 
Sport
Joined: 10/17/14
Posts: 68
Location: US-PA
thanks for the compliment, it is the prettiest reel I own, I think.

Its not so hardcore for muskies as you might think, it's just my solution to the hooksetting problem. Besides, it's just fun to fish with something different. A funny thing about these reels is that they have very little drag, the little knurled drag knob doesn't help either. ABU only put one drag washer in them, I can only guess that it was intended to slow the spool down if you lost control of the handle, they were intended for hauling bass out of heavy cover on heavy line so playing fish probably wasn't a consideration.

Your 5000C looks like a nice one, looks like you're enjoying it too.

Tim


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Re: new casting reel
Post 04 Aug 2020, 21:21 • #23 
Master Guide
Joined: 04/07/18
Posts: 382
Location: Reston VA


Here are my three AG 5000s and two spare spools. They have some smallish dings and a few scratches but given their age and the numbers of bass fishing hours in them they are in great shape. Wish i could say the same for me.


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Re: new casting reel
Post 04 Aug 2020, 21:24 • #24 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19077
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
those look fish-able - thanks for posting.


Last edited by bulldog1935 on 05 Aug 2020, 07:11, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: new casting reel
Post 04 Aug 2020, 23:26 • #25 
Guide
Joined: 06/21/20
Posts: 141
Is that a 5000 with a clicker on the right?


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