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Re: Any Threadliners?
Post 15 Apr 2020, 07:28 • #51 
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Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
Heddonist wrote:
On local lakes I have long used long -- 7-8' -- whippy, spinning rods with a Penn UL reel and 4lb test Stren to take LMB with 4" strawberry colored "Do Nothing" worms on a 1/16 oz weedless worm jig hook.
Hordes of smaller bass and a decent number of 7-8 lb-ers have fallen prey to that setup. Even when the big guys dove into deep weed beds, the line scissored off the weeds which rose all around my float tube. And the fish just could not shake off those extra sharp light wire hooks and the flexible rod nagging them to the surface.
Hell, until now, i had not even known the Japanese had twigged to this game!
Heddonist

Americans have a tendency to outfit like the next guy for the same target fish and type water, and most model themselves after a convention.
FFR is a cool place, because the Odd Americans hang out here.
Even the Brits have their target fish conventions with their own traditional tackle, and throw in some tweed (though they're a bit wider-viewed than Americans, taking up both Japanese tackle and American tackle).

The Japanese are more individual, specialized, and innovative in their approach to fishing. People from the outside would probably call it crazier (whoever heard of an UL saltwater rod).
If you had been here a dozen years ago - many of us were going to Japan for our glass fly rods, simply because new glass wasn't offered here then - good news, that's changed with word of mouth and our own growing cottage industry.


But using just the example of UL spinning reels. Regardless of the brand and model, the offerings sold here tend to be very much alike in that UL niche - one size, one spool capacity, all high-speed gearing. That's usually the first question Americans ask - what's the gear ratio? it's gotta be high speed, even if that gives up feel, finesse, and winding power.

That same UL reel body sold in Japan offers 5 different models, with 4 different spool capacities, 3 different gear ratios covering a 60% difference in line pick-up rate, and 4 different handle pitches (and you can mix and match the spools and handles between those 5 models) - those options just in the UL body for one reel model.

The number of rod variations offered in Japan for that target niche is almost incomprehensible compared to the fewer rod variations offered here (and maybe not offered here).
While we offer a lot of brands, price ranges and some variation in length and capacity, they tend to be very much like the next, e.g., inshore rod = 7' MH, 30-lb braid, and you can imitate a 3" shrimp or mullet as long as you can weight it to 3/8 oz or more.
We're not even close to the Japanese in tackle versatility, unless we do our own innovation - that's what Joe described in his book.
And I'm still hoping somebody is going to pony up a nice rod on this thread they built from an S-glass fly rod blank.


Last edited by bulldog1935 on 17 Apr 2020, 05:58, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Any Threadliners?
Post 15 Apr 2020, 10:26 • #52 
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Joined: 04/07/18
Posts: 305
Location: Reston VA
I forgot to mention in my earlier post that my first UL long spinning rod was built on a Yankee Clipper fly rod blank I picked up at the factory in the Detroit burbs.

Bought two blanks and made one into a fly rod too.

Heddonist


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Re: Any Threadliners?
Post 15 Apr 2020, 10:52 • #53 
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Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
:like


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Re: Any Threadliners?
Post 15 Apr 2020, 11:51 • #54 
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Joined: 02/27/16
Posts: 1573
Location: US-IL
I think i posted earlier in this thread about a fenwick fly rod some one converted to a spinning rod.They changed out the guides with ceramic insert guides at twice the normal amount.Added a spinning reel handle but left the fenwick braid so i think part of the fly grip was used as a fore grip.Definitely an 8' ferralite fly rod.A friend of my son,a hardcore steelheader,did some work at my house and i gave it to him,It was quite a franken rod but well done but so many guides which was common in the 70s noodle rods.If some one comes up with a good blank i would be comfortable trying a build.I would never waste my time building a fly rod ,why would i ?Quite happy with my fly rods.


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Re: Any Threadliners?
Post 15 Apr 2020, 12:31 • #55 
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Joined: 02/27/16
Posts: 1573
Location: US-IL
Bought this one about 10 years ago.Cubby Panfish rod.Cubby is famous for their mini mite jigs.A unique plastic on jigs down to 1/80.This rod is 7' 2-6lb line 1/8-1/32 baits.Tip is .041 butt is .395.9 guides tip id is.156 bottom id 13/16.rod is carbon maybe composite for the tiny tip.


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Re: Any Threadliners?
Post 16 Apr 2020, 00:37 • #56 
New Member
Joined: 11/09/18
Posts: 16
Location: Austin, TX
Starting about three years ago, I fell into the rabbit hole that has been XUL threadlining and it's easily been one of the most enjoyable niches, especially for warmwater fish in small creeks and rivers. It all started as an effort to use a spinning rod to cast my heavier flies for Guadalupe bass.

Thankfully, I quickly found out about Joe's book, which helped me start fishing a setup exactly for this application. Sportsman's Finest in Austin, TX had copies as of Christmas 2019. They were on sale too!

So far I've found the TFO FWSF 601-2, which was built with Joe for threadlining, to be my favorite, although I have tried a handful of other options. I keep it paired with a new model Mitchell 310 pro with 6x tippet and it does a great job of casting flies and lures from about 1.5 grams. Anything weighing less and I need to use a bit of split shot to get a decent cast. The rod does OK as a fly rod too with WF3F line, but it did leave a bit to be desired as a creek dry fly rod.

That's where this fiberglass custom piece pictured below came in. I ordered a Graywolf 6'8" 8 piece spin fly from Shane around Thanksgiving, hoping for a rod that would be more fun on the fly, but still able to threadline. It bends to the cork and casts like butter with WF3F line, but it's far too slow to attempt any snap casts, and has proven to be far too fragile and sloppy as a spinning rod with the 8 pieces for my taste.

In the chapter about building the right rod for threadlining, Joe explains how fiberglass costs some accuracy compared to UL graphite. I'm not 100% sold on this. I think an older Fenwick FS 55 or 60 blank with updated rec guides may be the next endeavor.






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Re: Any Threadliners?
Post 16 Apr 2020, 08:17 • #57 
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Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
beautiful rigs, slimjim - welcome to the forum, and thanks for the great post and photos
Especially thanks for "ponying up" the Graywolf !!!
Sexy outfit

I wasn't 100% sold on everything Joe said 40 years ago at Austin Angler, and I'm sure Joe remembers me exactly that way.
(I've always been the tough-to-mentor type, and Joe's the take-you-under-his-wing type)
My point at the top of the page - the less conventional, the better.
We don't need another convention, just a nudge to our imagination.
The best "natural-born" fishermen I know (my buddy Lou) tend to be hard-headed, won't duplicate anyone else without redundant proof of an advantage, and tackle everything their own way.


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Re: Any Threadliners?
Post 16 Apr 2020, 15:26 • #58 
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Joined: 02/25/08
Posts: 161
Location: US-NM
Yeah, there were several points I don't agree with in Joe's book. For instance, "rods beyond 6 1/2-feet would be better defined as light or medium-weight spinning rods." To me, a 3 weight 7 foot rod is still ultralight. It may be true that finding a 7 foot or longer carbon 3 wt may be difficult. There are lots of 3 weights that feel and cast better with a 4 or 5! The "bail thing" is another item that has been mentioned. I will say that I found an Orvis 50A at an estate sale and I like it. I doubt, however, I'd ever whack the bail off a reel that cost more than $100, but that's just me.


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Re: Any Threadliners?
Post 16 Apr 2020, 20:10 • #59 
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Joined: 03/08/14
Posts: 185
Location: US-MO
Few items here to discuss. first, Took the TFO Spin/Fly out, This is not the one I have for sale, I actually have two of them. Was using a spinner blade like a Mepps Aglia and was noticing some line twist. I saw the small loop on the spool but was not too concerned because lately I've been using some Nanofil that is very forgiving.
Second, Speaking of "Noodle" rods I picked up these matching pair off fleabay They have a thin lineage back to HL Leonard.




Third, Did someone say Daiwa 500C? I have a warm place in my heart for the 500,700,MiniMite, and MiniSpin.
Fourth, I went with the C2000S Ron, only has 5.1-1 Gear ratio, but if I find I need something more, figure I could get the 6.0-1 gear set later.


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Re: Any Threadliners?
Post 16 Apr 2020, 20:25 • #60 
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Exxon Graftek blanks were used by Leonard in their early graphite rods, kind of a greenish-gray. The blanks were also available in a more typical graphite charcoal color. Are you saying Leonard offered spinning rods on labled Graftek blanks? Makes sense that Exxon, which tried the composites market for a short time, would have also produced spinning blanks, so I'm curious to know what brand names they were marketed under. Also curious if the blank is supple/soft enough in action for some the methods discussed here.


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Re: Any Threadliners?
Post 16 Apr 2020, 21:52 • #61 
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Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
Grey Ghost, dude, you could outfit a Daiwa regiment.
I promise you'll love the C2000S - I much prefer the 5.1 gears. You're going to be floored by the precision of the mechanism.
The two things I didn't like about mine were the 40mm handle and the thin knob - I bought a 45mm handle and swapped a Livre knob.

For my 6.1-geared Stradic C2000SHG, on my list is a 51mm-pitch handle - longer handles make up for the other excesses of high speed gears.

I fished through a Daiwa Mini-Spin (outfit) in college. I did catch a 6-lb bass on it, and landed it, because we were in the middle of a deep cove when she took my jitterbug - and probably too many white bass.
Eventually the pinion gear fix separated from the rotor shaft and spun - one of those shaft flex issues, and a problem you'll find doesn't exist in new reels.
The problem with the deep-flexing Mini-Spin rod was the reel had to do too much of the work, with no rod butt there.

thanks for posting - love the details on the Graftek spinning rods. When I was in college, the UT Co-Op bike shop had a Graftek frame come through. I know people who own them, but no one should ride them, because the resins gave up.

ps - I make my own single-hook spinners with swivels


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Re: Any Threadliners?
Post 16 Apr 2020, 22:18 • #62 
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Joined: 11/09/18
Posts: 16
Location: Austin, TX
Bulldog Those homemade spinners and lures look deadly! I’ve been interested in making my own spinners, but havent gotten around to it yet. Recently I started to just cut the trebles off of Joes Flies. Speaking of, at around 1/24 oz or less, those are a hard one for me to cast on XUL without a small bb.

Finally, back to that previous point about not detaching bails, I did give that a try on a cheap plastic Daiwa I had lying around. Followed the steps, detached the bail, loaded it up with some 6x tippet... Long story short there’s a lot of little failures in fishing Ive learned from. In that attempt, I learned that purposely breaking a $20 reel somehow feels worse than accidentally breaking one much more expensive.


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Re: Any Threadliners?
Post 16 Apr 2020, 23:07 • #63 
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Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
Back to the Daiwa Mini Spin - 17 white bass one summer night from a lighted T-shaped pier on Lake LBJ. The pier was lined with fishermen watching me catch fish.
I was throwing a 1/24 oz Panther Martin spinner. Strip line, and sit on the dock to let the whole thing sink. My retrieve hugged the bottom and came up into the light right by the dock - the exact trail the white bass were following into the cove and dock lights in the summer heat. I averaged a fish every 3rd cast.


Last edited by bulldog1935 on 20 Apr 2020, 08:06, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Any Threadliners?
Post 17 Apr 2020, 01:14 • #64 
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Joined: 01/10/06
Posts: 6710
Location: Holly Springs, NC
Grey Ghost wrote:
Second, Speaking of "Noodle" rods I picked up these matching pair off fleabay They have a thin lineage back to HL Leonard.

They aren't Leonard rods, they are Exxons. They are much more rare than Leonards because Exxon only made graphite composites for a couple of years. Not too many of them survived. The Exxon composites were notorious for coming unglued at the wrong time. For a couple of years Exxon was one of the only players in the graphite game. Then everybody was - Exxon wasn't.

I have an Exxon Graftek fly rod. It is a rather nice casting rod, for graphite. I can understand why Leonard bought rod blanks from them.

Tom



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Re: Any Threadliners?
Post 17 Apr 2020, 10:50 • #65 
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Joined: 07/11/14
Posts: 1199
Location: US-CO
I'm not planning to remove the bail on any of my working reels, but have a couple of older reels with bad roller guides and no replacement parts available. SO, thinking of bolting on a nut/bolt with a Mitchell roller guide and no bail arm, just to see..

Here are Wanless' instructions for fishing bailless..

PICK-UP. Most threadline reels nowadays
can be got with a mechanical device for
picking up the line when the cast is com­
pleted, automatically, by the first turn of
the handle. Experts usually prefer the
finger pick-up which is quicker, can’t go
wrong, and generally, as one might say,
handier.

Finger pick-up. Dis­
engage the line from the hook at the side
of the spool and lay it on the tip of the
forefinger of the hand holding the rod.
The weight of the bait will keep it in place.
When the cast is made the forefinger is
straightened so that line is not obstructed
in any way. When the bait hits the water
the forefinger is extended towards the drum.
The line automatically comes in contact
with it. The finger is then pulled into the
rod and the handle of the reel is turned
with the left hand. The hook already
referred to automatically picks up the
line. The finger is momentarily lifted to
free the line. All this becomes quite
automatic after practice.


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Re: Any Threadliners?
Post 17 Apr 2020, 13:08 • #66 
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Joined: 02/27/16
Posts: 1573
Location: US-IL
I have for years used my finger on the spool,Always had hand me down mitchell reels with broken bail springs.Replacing the springs was futile as the reels were so beat up they broke again soon after.My right forefinger secured the line to quickly close the bail with the left hand.My all time favorite rod was the first issue berkley lightning rod 6' Ul 1 piece.Foam handle black single foot ceramic insert guides paired with a little rear drag daiwa long spool UL reel.Probably bought it around 1983.I caught 1000s of fish on this outfit.Green 6lb stren was the only line i used,On my first trip to Canada with a buddy who used to guide up there,I caught at least 100 smallmouth bass in day .Many over 5lbs.My left thumb was bleeding by the end of the day from lipping and releasing all these bass.Caught my biggest LM bass ever on this rod,a catfish over 20lbs. An 11lb walleye on the canada trip,all on 6lb.I gave the rod to my son 10 years ago and it finally broke above the first guide on a hybred striper,i still have the rod,6" shorter and the handle is mostly electrical tape.The rod really has no butt.Taper at the top and about the same diameter at the handle.I have been looking for a replacement for a long time.


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Re: Any Threadliners?
Post 17 Apr 2020, 13:46 • #67 
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Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
holy cow has this been covered
bulldog1935 wrote:
A great habit on all your spinning reels is closing the bail manually rather than using the crank mechanism to close the bail.
Whether your reel is a Cetus or a Stella, not using the internal auto-bail hammer extends gear life.
Since your hand and mind are close to the spool, it also prevents backlashes and line twist (especially important with braid).
The reels made today that use finger bails are big 80-lb offshore trolling reels.

Many regrets have been posted on this thread about following Joe's advice and cutting bails from perfectly good spinning reels.
The early Mitchell locking flip bail, with No manual bail function, and which they abandoned in 1978, and those reels that copied it, might be the reels that require a finger bail conversion for threadline fishing. (As demonstrated by Grey Ghost's classic wind knot above).
Even Mitchell addressed it in the Ottomatic bails - the same thumb touch that would open the bail would also close it (see Mitchell 440 in masthead photo).
But otherwise, any reel that lets you close your bail manually keeps your hand and mind close to the line, which keeps the line under control, allows you to feather it at the end of your cast, prevents excess line from falling off the spool, thereby preventing wind knots.

BTW, anybody got any examples of XUL rods they built on fly rod blanks?


Last edited by bulldog1935 on 17 Apr 2020, 17:14, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Any Threadliners?
Post 17 Apr 2020, 14:20 • #68 
Guide
Joined: 02/25/08
Posts: 161
Location: US-NM
I have a carbon 6'6" ebay cheapo that I built several years ago. I'll have to retrieve it from my son-in-law. I'm embarrassed to say that I haven't tried to post a photo since the PhotoBucket debacle years ago. Can't be that hard....seems like lots of guys almost as old as me can easily do it!
Secondly, after some mental gymnastics, I've decided to build an original Diamondglass 6'6" blank into a "Joe Robinson PA Special".


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Re: Any Threadliners?
Post 17 Apr 2020, 18:47 • #69 
Guide
Joined: 03/08/14
Posts: 185
Location: US-MO
I have a few Flyrods that are now Sinning rods.


From top to bottom I only made three of these
TFO 7 1/2' 2wt 4pc top 3 sections used Brett Humphries Builder
TFO 7' 2wt 4pc top 3 sections used Marty Desapio Builder
EGlass 7' 3wt 3pc top two sections
Random 8' 3wt 4pc middle two sections used A little stiff but very sensitive.
Cabelas Fish Eagle 9' 5wt two pc will lob 1/8 oz a mile
Walton Powell Factory Spinner I'm sure this is a Fly Blank


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Re: Any Threadliners?
Post 18 Apr 2020, 03:59 • #70 
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Posts: 16286
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
good job - no need to repent on those

For my salt niche, I tie my braid to a 10" copolymer shock tippet with an Imp. Allbright knot,
and a 1" surgeon's loop on the end of that, so I can loop on
clicking cigar cork for bait rig, or titanium micro-bite-trace for lures

My new Yamaga has Torzite/titanium guides, the running guides so freakishly small I wasn't sure my knots would pass until I tried


it's also got the most efficient (largest diameter) spigot ferrule I've ever seen
the blank has seriously thin wall to fit this - the 8'3" rod weighs 75 g = 2-5/8 oz


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Re: Any Threadliners?
Post 19 Apr 2020, 16:11 • #71 
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Joined: 05/16/10
Posts: 701
Location: South of Houston, TX
I’m not sure if this counts, but it’s an ultralight rod I built up from a blank I bought from Cabelas when they sold rod building stuff.

It’s a 5’6” graphite blank that I used a slip ring grip on, and repurposed some guides from a broken rod that are likely bigger than needed.

It can throw a worm without weight to work the shore without sinking into the moss.





I don’t recall what line I have on the reel at the moment. I think it’s 4 pound test since I could find 2 pound on the shelves last time I went to the local sporting goods store to replace it.

It’s a pleasure to fish with, but there’s no yanking lures out of branches with it!


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Re: Any Threadliners?
Post 20 Apr 2020, 08:08 • #72 
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Joined: 08/10/05
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Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
that reminds me of the Falcon UL my daughter was fishing with the Penn 4200 SS before I found the rockfish rods in Japan.

She was younger than these photos when she made the switch to spinning tackle, and it was a source of pride for her
(and she was first catching fish on a fly rod by 5, and nymphing the Guadalupe soon after).
She always both casts and reels RH.
The 5-1/2' Falcon UL has a limited range of 1/32-1/16-oz, 2-6-lb test.
When you do the wiggle test, can feel it flex in the handle, and it's a Falcon - this is a nice rod.
It fished fine like this when you had the wind behind you, and Fulton Beach pier in particular, there was usually a good (or bigger) prevailing wind from the SE - that spring break night it was beating, as you can see on the water.
But the longer rockfish rods we added about a year later feel much stiffer in the butt, the tip feels like butter with any weight on your line, rated for lighter line, wider lure range, 1/64-3/16-oz - they would more than double the cast on the weightless bait rig we used here, and can still cast surprisingly well into the wind.

Carried 2 spools and 2 Falcon rods for her reel. 4-lb copolymer with the UL, and 10-lb copolymer with the 6'6" ML Open Hook Special, a pretty nice inshore rod, 1/4-1/2-oz, 8-12-lb test.
I've showed these photos before of her catching sheepshead at Lighthouse Lakes pass, and schoolie specs we brought home.

Both of these photo sets were shot during the same Spring Break


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Re: Any Threadliners?
Post 22 Apr 2020, 19:27 • #73 
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Joined: 07/11/14
Posts: 1199
Location: US-CO
not built, but I am liking the odd old Wonderod, got a couple stocker trout on it Saturday. Throws anything, since it bends under its own weight of glass..



The A&F 150 reel is now retired as a shelf queen. It has a number of neat features including a manual bail operation and a good drag, but this example is old. I Just Can't Stand those grinding gears, worked my way up to axle grease trying to quiet them down but can’t do it.

The local raptors, not being fools, were also out there fishing the stocked trout - two ospreys, two juvenile bald eagles and one adult. The big birds are awful loud when they dive into the water, WHAP!! turned my head every time. Ospreys did OK, bald eagles missed a lot. One of the juveniles dropped his fish as he flew over me, circled for a while but the fish either sank or swam away.
By 9:30 getting crowded, birds had left so I did too.

The Shimano Trout One is a real pretty rod, also with those teeny tiny running guides I can barely see to thread. A lot stiffer and faster than I expected for a rod rated to 1 gram. I'd set it up for this evening with a 2g Abu Droppen spinner but forgot we had a Scout conference call so will try to get out tomorrow..


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Re: Any Threadliners?
Post 22 Apr 2020, 19:39 • #74 
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Joined: 01/21/19
Posts: 25
Location: Sweden, Blekinge
doug in co wrote:
not built, but I am liking the odd old Wonderod, got a couple stocker trout on it Saturday. Throws anything, since it bends under its own weight of glass..



The A&F 150 reel is now retired as a shelf queen. It has a number of neat features including a manual bail operation and a good drag, but this example is old. I Just Can't Stand those grinding gears, worked my way up to axle grease trying to quiet them down but can’t do it..


Beautiful reel. Is that reel a Langley Spinlite 850B in disguise?


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Re: Any Threadliners?
Post 22 Apr 2020, 19:56 • #75 
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Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 16286
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
answering out of turn, that's definitely a Langley SpinFlo


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