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Post 15 Dec 2019, 15:49 • #1 
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Any information about the rod or value of the rod would be most welcome. It is 81 inches assembled. It says Carlson’s Mount Carmel on it. I understand that it is fiberglass.


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Post 16 Dec 2019, 07:37 • #2 
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Photos are needed to show condition and to help in ID. How many sections? All the same length?


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Post 16 Dec 2019, 12:33 • #3 
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there's the greatest chance the rod was custom built from a sourced glass blank, and we'd need detail photos in order to guess its pedigree.

So far, though, sounds like a great rod.

ps - there's a current Carlson Rod company (Townsend, MA), begun by Sam Carlson in the '50s or 60s, making quadrate cane rods, that also googles up a Mt. Carmel hit by their historic reference to Edwards (quadrate rods) of Mt. Carmel, CT.
It would be very interesting if we could link this glass rod to Sam Carlson.
You might also want to contact the current owner of Carlson Rods.


Last edited by bulldog1935 on 16 Dec 2019, 15:45, edited 1 time in total.

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Post 16 Dec 2019, 13:17 • #4 
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Here are some photos: Image

I will get measurements of the pieces next week. Thanks all!


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Post 16 Dec 2019, 13:55 • #5 
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Also need photos of the reel seat, the writing, the winding check (the piece right in front of the grip, and the ferrules. Try to take the photos so the photobucket logo doesn't block the view - or use postimage. Sam Carlson was a machinist and rod builder known for his quadrate (4 sided) bamboo rods. He worked for the Edwards rod company in Mt. Carmel as well as for the Leonard rod company. He passed in 2002 and today his protege Dana Gray carries on his quad tradition. Many of the bamboo rod builders of the 50's, 60's, and early 70's built some fiberglass rods in an effort to make whatever money they could. Many were built on Conolon blanks. What little I can see of the wraps and winding check looks like it has Edwards influence and may have been made by Sam or someone who worked for him and probably dates to the late 50's or 60's. Or it could have been built by a hobbyist in the style of Edwards. Someone who's familiar with Sam's handwriting might be able to identify it. Even with better photos, value may be hard to set. In general, fiberglass rods of this vintage don't bring much but the Carlson Mt. Carmel heritage may be worth more to a collector even though it is fiberglass.


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Post 16 Dec 2019, 14:01 • #6 
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To me, the little I can see of the winding check reminds me of the material look of a Carlson made rod. Better and more photos please.


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Post 16 Dec 2019, 14:07 • #7 
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Guys, if you click on his image, it's a link to his photobucket album with nearly enough photos.
It's not a fly rod, but a spinning rod, with loop guides and the reel seat lets you adjust the reel position anywhere on the full cork handle.
One of our Herter's guys needs to chime in on the reel seat.

Brown glass, super-Z ferrules probably dates to the mid-late-50s. The wrap style also matches the period.
It's a high-grade rod, and that is a beauty of a winding check.
There were a number of glass makers producing similar blanks, including Conolon and Silaflex on the west coast, Phillipson in the Rockies, St. Croix, South Bend in the midwest, Montague, later True Temper on the east coast (initially buying Conolon blanks before making their own). Herters bought glass blanks from St. Croix and True Temper.


Last edited by bulldog1935 on 16 Dec 2019, 15:43, edited 1 time in total.

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Post 16 Dec 2019, 15:40 • #8 
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This makes sense - Carlson made of lot of spinning and salt water rods. I don't think the rod would interest collectors although it might be a very nice fishable spinning rod. Just a guess but I'm thinking the value would be $35 - $75. Somebody correct me if I'm off base.


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Post 16 Dec 2019, 18:54 • #9 
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Now that good progress has been made and this turns out to be a spinning rod, I'll move the thread to that section, where maybe some of the spinning enthusiasts may recognize more about the rod. It doesn't look like a Herter's "Browntone" blank to me. Best guess, just on appearance, Conolon, but that's far from definitive.

I agree, a small shop build, not high value, even if from someone with some renown in other types/materials.


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Post 17 Dec 2019, 07:41 • #10 
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My sweet Cummings Water Witch was reported to be a St. Croix blank by an infrequent FFR member who had a Vince Cummings connection, with the beauty highly polished and brightly translucent brown. Russ Peak also used this blank.
I've honestly never seen a St. Croix marked rod that exactly used it, though later St. Croix rods are similarly polished, so I suspect it was made by St. Croix to Vince's spec.
Since Herters sourced blanks from both St. Croix and Montague/TT who probably reverse-engineered a Conolon blank, Herters might still be in the game.

Image

Image

I wouldn't rule out Conolon, either, but the reel seat our OP posted sure made me think Herters - and it's possible the reel seat was sourced separately from the blank - I doubt if it was a kit rod. Herter's is east coast, as is Montague. (In the west, Cabelas was selling Wright-McGill blanks.)
Unfortunately, I don't have a better-lit photo of a Conolon Royal Javelin, but this was a 50-y-o NOS rod with a $35 price tag still hanging.
Image

The OP reel seat (his photo) wedges a spinning reel foot better than sliding bands alone, but comes up just short of the Phillipson patent seat by not having threaded bands.
Image
Image


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Post 08 Jan 2020, 22:35 • #11 
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Joined: 01/21/16
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Location: US-MA
tiptop wrote:
Also need photos of the reel seat, the writing, the winding check (the piece right in front of the grip, and the ferrules. Try to take the photos so the photobucket logo doesn't block the view - or use postimage. Sam Carlson was a machinist and rod builder known for his quadrate (4 sided) bamboo rods. He worked for the Edwards rod company in Mt. Carmel as well as for the Leonard rod company. He passed in 2002 and today his protege Dana Gray carries on his quad tradition. Many of the bamboo rod builders of the 50's, 60's, and early 70's built some fiberglass rods in an effort to make whatever money they could. Many were built on Conolon blanks. What little I can see of the wraps and winding check looks like it has Edwards influence and may have been made by Sam or someone who worked for him and probably dates to the late 50's or 60's. Or it could have been built by a hobbyist in the style of Edwards. Someone who's familiar with Sam's handwriting might be able to identify it. Even with better photos, value may be hard to set. In general, fiberglass rods of this vintage don't bring much but the Carlson Mt. Carmel heritage may be worth more to a collector even though it is fiberglass.

Just saw this thread.
Sam did make the rod.He made and sold a lot of fiberglass rods in the late fifties/early sixties, as did both Gene and Bill Edwards. As others have stated, not much value, but would certainly be a lot more desirable as a fly rod.
Tiptop, just an FYI, Sam never worked for Leonard, but they did want to bring him there. I still have a letter of the offer they made him that included buying his business, but Verna (Sam's wife) had no interest in moving to New York, so that never came to fruition.
Carlsonrod


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Post 09 Jan 2020, 21:25 • #12 
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Joined: 01/21/16
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Location: US-MA
Look closer at the ferrules on this rod, they're not Super Z's. These are a "step down" female ferrule sold by Allen Mfg.
I still have a PILE of these that were in "Sam's" shop when I moved it.


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Post 10 Jan 2020, 08:23 • #13 
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Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
thanks for adding such great information, and welcome to FFR.
Hope you stay and play.


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Post 10 Jan 2020, 19:15 • #14 
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Joined: 01/21/16
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Location: US-MA
Thank you.
Joined about 4 years ago, but haven't posted here in all that time.
I am more active over on the Classic Fly Rod Forum.
Carlsonrod


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