I received in the mail yesterday a new rod (Thank you Chris Stewart of tenkarabum.com/finesse-fishng.com). For the first time in many years, it isn't a fly rod, but a casting rod, the Shimano Cardiff AX 6'2" 2pc BFS Area rod, for 2-6lb test line and 1/32-1/4 oz lures. And it's fiberglass! or at least 75% uni-directional S2 glass, with carbon fiber wrapped around the blank for hoop strength. While I'm considering which BFS reel to pair with it, I'll be seeing just how light I can go with my "old" Calcutta 50B (without dropping $150 or so on a UL spool and ceramic bearings, at any rate).

This story started a long time ago—in the late 1960's, in fact. Like most kids in the South, I started fishing with a cane pole, then spinning gear. About the time I was discovering fly fishing, I also delved headlong into UL spinning. All well and good, and I caught a lot of bass with small topwater plugs on UL gear, as well as panfish on fly rods. But then I happened upon an old Field and Stream column by AJ McClane called Baby Baits for Bass, which led me to Charles K Fox's book Advanced Baitcasting. Both touted the efficiency and satisfaction of bass fishing with what was then known as "skish" or tournament tackle—6 to 6'6" light baitcasting rods designed specifically for 1/4 oz plugs, and tuned free spool reels to go with them. Problem was, in those dark times in the southeast, where grown men were trading in their wooden boats and oars for tricked-out aluminum jonboats, electric motors, and Fenwick "Lunker Stix," to toss half ounce sliding sinkers with big hooks and 7-9 inch purple worms at "hogs," such light tackle may as well have been bamboo by Payne and silk line by Gladding, for all I knew or had access to.

Digging through the rod rack at one of the two "real" tackle stores in town, I managed to find a moderate-soft action, old stock Fenwick plug rod from (probably) the mid-60's. Six foot, two piece, rather straight taper, with an old-style Champion Featherweight offset handle (Coke bottle-shaped cork grip, rather than the new pistol-shaped rubber), and six or seven Carboloy guides. It was made for lure weights 1/4 to 1/2 oz and 6-10 lb test line, which meant it was ideal for 3/8 oz floating plugs and 8 lb test line. I scraped together enough odd-job, Christmas, and birthday money to grab the rod and a beautiful red Ambassadeur 5000 reel. Thus outfitted with my very first Fenwick, I learned to cast 1/2 oz and then 3/8 oz floating plugs 50 or 60 feet without backlashing. Closer to my goal, but not all the way there, and I was catching bass. Meanwhile, I had all but given up spinning except for the very lightest tackle, and even that was often being left behind as I gravitated to lighter fly rods and lines. Eventually, I let my high school history teacher talk me out of the practically irreplaceable Fenwick rod (talk about student abuse!). I can't even identify the model number these days with the help of the internet. A dozen or so attempts to match its action with carbon fiber have been dismal failures, so a box of well-loved light bass plugs followed me (unused) through college, grad school, and a naval career. A more recent (10 yrs back) attempt at designing a bamboo plug rod with vintage Champion handle left me unfulfilled, with the aforementioned Calcutta reel that accompanied the attempt sitting on a bookcase shelf unused.

Back to my newest acquisition. It seems, while American bass fishermen have been confusing "finesse" fishing with what we used to consider light to medium spinning, our Japanese brethren have been developing lighter and lighter bass (and now trout) bait casting tackle. Bait casting gear is (to me) not only more precise, it's more satisfying to use than spinning, with more skill required to use.

I'm not totally sold (yet) on the "two-handed" style grip (with a couple of inches of bare blank between the rear grip and the butt—why?), but at least Shimano used real cork rings throughout. If I end up going crazy for this method and start trying to cast 1/32-1/16oz lures on 2 lb test line, I'll probably supplant my new rod with one of the "true" UL bait finesse rods of 5 to 5.5 feet, where the rear grip is one length of cork. Now if it would just stop raining/freezing out and the dogwoods would bloom.....

Nice looking setups. I liked being at the light end of baitcasting rigs and almost always tossed the 1/16 ounce jig heads with 2 generation Revos and various Shimano and Lews reels. I tended to like medium light and light action rods. I had an old fiberglass fenwick baitcasting rod with a white blank, it would have be new in the late 1970s. Unfortunately, it got slammed in a car door. Sounds like these new types go even lighter. I’m with the OP on using baitcasting rigs over the spinning ones being more precise and satisfying to use.

I think living close enough to the coast that wind is almost ever-present often makes spinning frustrating. I used to fish quite a bit inshore with UL spinning rigs, and having a bunch of light line blown off the spool a few times a day could drive me to drink. Inland, I hate going fishing and finding massive snarls of mono hanging in the streamside shrubbery. A lot of that could be avoided if people didn’t over-fill their reels with too-heavy, cheap mono, but it’s still likely to happen to everyone once in a while. I haven’t fished with baitcasting gear in quite a while, so I plan to start easy with 1/4 oz lures on 4 lb line until I re-educate my thumb, but I still expect far fewer backlashes than the twisted line snarls that are par for the course with spinning.

I’ve tried building both UL spinning and light baitcasting rods with various fly rod blanks over the years. It can be made to work (and frequently was back in the 40’s and 50’s), but fly rod tapers aren’t ideal for the job. You know how, when you pick up a rod and wiggle it and you just know it will cast really well? That’s the feeling I get when I flex this new Shimano, even before getting the chance to take it outside. Hopefully, I’ll get to test out that theory tomorrow, at least lawn-casting.

the trick there is to find the equivalent low end rod made for the home market - many Japanese vendors are selling to US on ebay.
The high-end rockfish rods (NorieS) sell for $800, but you can find $100 versions on ebay with smart searching.
You don't now have to do the Japan searching and brokering that I did 8 years ago.

You also made the point about the honed skills needed for baitcasting.
I made a point the other day on TKF that baitcasting requires more constant self-tuning than fly-casting - distance, lure weights, combined with about 5 different casts.
Once you have the cast as part of your muscle memory, and cast control in your line hand, fly casting is much more natural and forgiving.

And again, you gain instant lure action with a baitcaster - think how much difference it makes with a lure like a buzz bait.

I think we can thank Bass Masters and other competitive fishing for $ why bass casting tackle has gone so heavy power. For the pros a lost fish or more time fighting them in is money out of the bank, then they recommend other bass fishermen to go with what they use. For me it takes some of the sport out of it.

I can certainly see how a fiberglass blank with it’s “self loading” qualities would help casting light lures with a bait caster. A stiff carbon fiber rod casting light lures with a baitcaster for me would be a bird’s nest fest and that’s not even against the wind. Some of the Seeker fiberglass blanks in their SP or 2 piece S glass trout would probably make a great finesse bass rod. While not true finesse I handle a Rainshadow Judge crankbait 7’ M 1/4-3/4oz lure blank at the ICRBE yesterday that really impressed me. It is S glass carbon composite, limber glass tip, progressive mid going to a very strong butt.

That is too cool Ron.

What a great discussion. We have anglers here. I am probably missing the finer points, doing very little baitcasting any more.

The discussion seems to affirm something I've long believed: two activities develop the coordination that makes competent fly casting easy. (1) throwing apples of various sizes off of sticks of various lengths and flexibility--a childhood development stage that they don't even put in textbooks any more. (2) baitcasting with a variety of lure types, rods, and reels.

Also, baitcasting reels can be used with great finesse, but they are also the ticket for brute strength "winching." Neither a fly feel nor a spinning reel is designed for continuous winding against maximum pressure. That is what pop's a spool latch, bends a spindle mount or frame, twists a bail, breaks gears with the excess leverage of the long spinning reel winding arm, and so on. Fly and spinning reels are for pump-and-wind reeling, in which line is recovered on the downstroke under lighter pressure. They can be overtaxed if used as a winch.

I guess a baitcasting reel could be overtaxed as well, but by design they are stronger by the nature of the pillared frame, axle supported on both ends, and relatively low gear ratio and construction that allows a robust geartrain. The shorter handle prevents excess leverage and gives better feedback as to when the reel's "winch" ability is at max.

Finesse in the hands of a coordinated user, and higher brute strength to stop or winch a big fish if necessary = baitcasting reel.

My buddy who only uses baitcasting rigs and that I often fish with always describes my fly set ups as finesse rigs. Regularly, we fish off the same small boat, me with the fly gear and him using baitcasting rigs. It’s been interesting to see how the two approaches play out on the water. He’s a big fan of going light with his baitcasting offerings. He often uses 1/16 ounce jig heads, but, of course, my patterns are much lighter than his.

We did once both get into a school of jack creavelle. I got the first one on my 7’6” 8/9 weight G.Loomis Short Stix. He got one after me on a typical 7’ medium inshore baitcasting rod, shimano Curado reel. The fish were comparable and so was the time of the fight. Both fish ran off tons of line, mine took out about 100 yards of backing, then basically stopped and then it was a matter of getting in the run off line. I didn’t pump my fly rod, but just kept on near maximum pressure my 15# tippet as I slowly gained on the fish. I believe he uses about the same pound test on his rigs and lost a similar amount line off the reel.

I did initially have more broken fly tippets than I used to get with the baitcasting set ups. With baitcasting rigs, one is always on the reel. As long as the leader is right and the drag set right, the fish shouldn’t break the leader. I did once have a 4.5’ Tarpon break my 15# leader, but I wasn’t expecting a Tarpon to attack my little skitterwalk and go airborne with it. What’s different about fly fishing is that there’s often slack line off the reel when the fish eats the fly. A strong, running fish can easily bend out a hook or bust a tippet if the fisherman isn’t ready to react in time. Once the fish is on the reel, it’s not all that different from using baitcasting tackle, that’s been my experience. Fly reels, even large arbors, don’t gather in as much line as a 6:1 or 7:1 type of baitcasting reel, but it isn’t such a difference that can’t be managed.

But I haven’t put anything bigger on the fly rods than about 35#. I’ve caught some fish bigger than that on baitcasting rigs. The main thing is knowing what the weak link is in any set up. Could be the leader, tippet, line, rod, reel. People hand line in big fish, no rod or reel involved. According to Trident, even Marlin only need about 6 pounds of reel drag with the right rod and 20# tippet.

Not at all, they make a 7'1" and 7'7"
https://www.tackledirect.com/13-fishing ... -rods.html
Tackle Direct has the 7'7" in stock and can order the 7'1"

you're welcome - I like the rod, it's lightweight and fun to fish.

I had one of the Lew's Speed Stick rods as well, bought in 1976. Caught lots of redfish, flounder, Spanish mackerel, etc. with it. Good rod.