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Post 02 Dec 2018, 10:40 • #26 
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Brought up this old thread with a new datapoint, four good extended coast trips since the last post, and new tackle (also graphite warning).

First, I fished my Lew's BB-25SW on 8'2" (heavy side of) medium Lamiglas Classic Glass, all week on Laguna Madre at the beginning of November, and it was Perfect for fishing the flats from a drifting boat.
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Perfect both with weighted paddle-tails (Cocahoe minnow) and neutral-density swimbait (TSL grasswalker)
It would have done the popping cork just as well, but I was imitating baitfish.
The combo was an edge for out-fishing everyone else on the boat (not a goal, but a fact).
Other than a little spool fuzz and thumb touch during long casts, backlash was never an issue.
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The first graphite warning, last year, I added a 9' Lamiglas G1325 medium-light spinning rod, 6-12-lb line, 1/8-1/2-oz lures.
The reel is a Tica Libra 3000SX, capacity for 200-yds 12-lb fluoro and long spool designed for distance casting.
Tica USA sells on Amazon - very inexpensive for its quality - and good support when I ordered a spare spool.
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The logic of this rig is casting a long way sitting in a kayak, high rod tip for depth control with weighted lures, and the ability to cast lighter lures. It works. It's also really sensitive for light bites.
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The combo has served me well (with the limits of line control) both on the flats, and dock-fishing for schoolie specs in the Arroyo Colorado barge channel.

Early in the year, added a 7' medium-light baitcaster, TFO-made Cabelas Salt Striker with a new Lew's Super Duty.
The 3-pc travel rod was a close-out steal ($50 v. $200 for the same TFO-brand still in production), and perfect to stash in a kayak hold next to my 3-pc Sage RPLX7.

It's a joy for kayak fishing both weighted and neutral-density lures. Line control is instantaneous, and big capacity for a new low-profile reel. A long weekend kayak-drifting Estes flats, it became my go-to rod. All the distance I needed drifting the kayak, and a better choice for sight-fishing than the longer rods.
This is the only photo I have.
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ok, found this, the first rat red of the trip
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They have really come a long way in cast control on these new bait reels - the first mag-control that actually does something. Where BB-1 was a paradigm step over Abu for peeling line from spools, 35 years later, cast control (anti-backlash) has caught up. Counting clicks on both the friction drag brake and fine-tune clicks on the mag is really something - virtually no thumbs.
If your spool's getting fuzzy mid-cast, instead of adding thumb to the spool, add a click of mag before your next cast.
Spinning an empty spool, you can actually see the mag control work, which I never saw on the old mag controls.

Dock fishing the Arroyo, the 9' medium-light spinning combo took all honors (ok, except breaking off my lifetime snook when I was using the 10-lb spool). I could cast 1/4-3/8-oz halfway across the Arroyo, and feeling the light fish bites was everything else. I fished my XUL some with light lures, definitely caught fish, but where it shines is a light bait rig, we had no bait, and all wrong for the heavier lures that caught the most fish. The 7' baitcaster just wouldn't do the trick for ambushing far-away schoolies sneaking into our light.
(I have a couple of more 8-1/2' medium-heavy rods, both bait and spinning, that stayed in their socks that trip).
The heavy-side-of-medium 8'2" Lami Glass with very collectible Lew's BB-25SW would cast all the same distance, but didn't have the feel needed for subtle fish bites. So with only one rod doing what I needed, I had to cut and re-tie any time I wanted to change lures, and change-up was everything for these fish.

So I came home deciding I needed to add another long medium-light combo, so I could fish two rigged rods, and decided to go baitcaster (plus the only med-light spinning rod Lami makes now is 9'6").
Lami calls this medium, but for my inshore purpose, it's medium-light, and it does have a soft thin tip.
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The 7' Salt Striker has the exact same line and lure rating, but for you guys who know your ballistics, 20% greater length and lure velocity means double the distance.
No deals on this rod, only a few in stock around the country, and a 3-month wait to get from Lamiglas.

Good ebay deal on the Lew's Inshore. The spool is not as deep, and 2mm narrower than my almost new Super Duty, and its capacity is listed as 40-yards less (rated for 12-lb mono, 0.014" dia). I'm not a guy to fish braid, but here's my place for it.
I used 100 yds 15-lb (0.008") Yo-Zuri braid for backing. The Yo-Zuri is not as fine or expensive as 8-strand braids, but it also has an added coating.
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and I was able to get 145 yds 12-lb Seaguar Red fluoro (0.011") over that, actually improving the total line length over the Super Duty.
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Just got this rigged today, and took the combo to the back-acre for a casting trial this afternoon.
Found it to be the smoothest distance-casting reel I've ever chunked. 150' casts with 1/4-oz were slow lobs. No question the new combo will out-cast the 9' G1325/Tica spinner (and all my other rods).
I don't think backlash will ever be an issue unless I get carried away.


Last edited by bulldog1935 on 03 Dec 2018, 08:54, edited 3 times in total.

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Post 02 Dec 2018, 11:04 • #27 
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Location: Relocated to the Drought Stricken West.
Ron,

Do you need to wash your braid after the season? I'm just wondering if it holds salt, causing corrosion.


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Post 03 Dec 2018, 07:17 • #28 
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carlz wrote:
Ron,
Do you need to wash your braid after the season? I'm just wondering if it holds salt, causing corrosion.

braid - I simply rinse my reels and lube them before I take them out again.
The only braid I have is the coated Yo-Zuri for backing.
But many of the coast tackle shops only sell braid in full-reel-charge packs, and the only way to get fluoro is in tippet spools.
I buy my fluoro in 1000-yd bulk spools on-line (and travel with them in one of my milk crates).
I've seen my buddies twist up braid on spinning tackle and bait reels both. Backlashed braid on a baitcaster is hopeless, and it's $35 to replace. .
I have discovered that good fluoro such as Seaguar Red or Abrazix stretches less than copolymer, so the only place I'm fishing copolymer now is on my XUL.

The 40-lb braid thing also can abuse your rods, in addition to taxing your drag - even the best reels don't have more than 20-lb drag pressure. I also like paying drag to worthy fish - to me, it's part of the sport.

I would worry about residual salt on my old painted Lew's, and that's why I retired them from the salt (before they took any damage), but anodizing on new reels is pretty much salt-proof, good seals and metals choices all around. So sufficient rinse and lube before re-use has taken care of me. My XUL Tica is now on it's 7th year in the salt.
(Though now only back-up/loaners, my 35-y-o Penn 4x00ss are still going after that long in the salt.)

I'm trying to talk my buddies into getting some waders so we can get back after it.
Wader-clad Houston attorneys have been catching big specs at Port Mansfield.
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http://www.texaskayakfisherman.com/foru ... 8&t=248969
I did have an invite to join the attorneys fishing East Matagorda Bay Thanksgiving weekend, but unfortunately, just had too much to get done to the house that weekend.

The 200 yard thing is also a requirement for me. I've been spooled by a few bull reds in the surf, but I've also landed big king mackerel and jacks on inshore tackle and 7-wt fly rod because I had sufficient backing.

Nothing acrid this far south - we don't have a clue what causes shack nasties.
Probably also true of people planning winter trips to Florida, the Bahamas, etc.
I thought John might be interested in my review of new tackle, since we talked about the old.
For those who've never cast/fish a baitcaster, it's just as fun today as in Doc Henshall's day.
Spinning tackle can bring it home to people who don't want to hone the skill, but honing the skill is fun - it's kinda like fishing.
It's also fun when pushing your tournament-quality cast makes the difference between catching fish or not.


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Post 03 Dec 2018, 09:33 • #29 
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That Lew's Super Duty looks great Ron. I had a couple of Lew's mag-brake reels years ago - they were okay but not special. I'll have to check them out over the Winter. Nice bump of this older post Sir!


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Post 03 Dec 2018, 12:25 • #30 
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Thanks
The last photos are my Inshore, it's a smaller spool than the Super Duty, but I like the casting brake design better. With my line plan, though, was able to get almost 250 yds on it, and it casts like a dream (the long rod helps - Doc Henshall knew what he was doing). The Yo-Zuri braid cost $13 on ebay.
It has the older style centrifugal brake with sliding drag shoes, but 4 of them instead of 2.
It also has a sealed port that you can open up to lube the gears without taking the mechanism apart.
I'm expecting never again to need another baitcaster.
Academy is selling the BB-1 Pro for $149, which is a really good price (and a big spool).
https://www.academy.com/shop/pdp/lews-b ... id=5029002


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Post 03 Dec 2018, 13:21 • #31 
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Thanks for that Ron.


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Post 04 Dec 2018, 19:26 • #32 
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"cast control (anti-backlash) has caught up. Counting clicks on both the friction drag brake and fine-tune clicks on the mag is really something - virtually no thumbs. "

thanks Ron, interesting..

I had an Swedish-made Abu 5500 from the early 80s which I really enjoyed, but it got stolen.
My standard surf reel is a Swedish 7000 which casts a country mile. I enjoyed a 10000 for a couple of months - this had no level wind and an automatic two-speed retrieve, fast when not under load, 2:1 or so when under load - bit of a gimmick but a neat bit of engineering. It got stolen in a separate incident, pfui.

The 5500 replacement Abu 323 bought new was fairly horrible, plastic side plate and not a very good mag cast control, so never used it much.
Now have a 5500 from the 60s or early 70s which I like a lot, but seldom fish for anything with lures heavy enough to use it.
Maybe I need to look into some of the newer ones to throw lighter lures..
always enjoyed baitcasting, closer to flycasting than spinning, more involvement I guess.


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Post 04 Dec 2018, 20:02 • #33 
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Ouch, sorry for your loss.
I had one salty friend (unfortunately wheelchair bound today) who would fish none but Ambassadeur 5501c, and bought up a half-dozen on ebay, price be damned.
I loved my Millionare 6H (new on close-out in 1977), especially in the surf (3-5 ounces, depending on the size of your cut bait), and it was a great reel even for free-shrimping with a long rod - we're not talking about a lot of weight here.

If you want to tinker in old, hunt ebay for a good condition BB-1NG (many out there) - you will be blown away by casting ease.
Or if you want to snag a collectible, look for the BB-25SW.
My ebay minder recently e-mailed me about a Falcon glass rod, as well - I'm just not in the freshwater market. (It's a better rod than the Fenglas 2000 I let go, stupidly cheap)
Lami Classic Glass is also pretty fine for longer rods, and can be found for about $100 (at more places than you can find a good stock of G1000 Pro).
Lew's also uses plastic palm-sides, and the old reels had a powder-coated diecast frame, (period) anodized aluminum on drive-side plate.
But I promise you won't care. While they incorporated many of Abu's expired patents, the spool and disengaged rider during casting was a clean sheet of paper.
The new low-profile reels definitely don't improve on the cast distance, but the reach is more comfortable on your thumb, and they ask less attention of your thumb.

Rod loading with a spinning rod is actually closer to a fly rod, and baitcasting is a bit more like swinging a bat (jerk in your cast is anathema). They require total reel consciousness, from setting up your cast, all the way through to the splash (it can be visual or thumb feel).
Mostly, success with the technique is more gratifying than spinning, and as my first post, there are line-control advantages during fishing over spinning tackle.


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Post 04 Dec 2018, 20:18 • #34 
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"While they incorporated many of Abu's expired patents, the spool and disengaged rider during casting was a clean sheet of paper. "

fascinating - so my horrible old 323 is a sort of copy of Lew's then - it has a disengaged levelwind during cast, but it doesn't work well because they forgot to copy the v-spool. The 323 spool is too wide, so the line tends to build up in lumps..
This is not my reel, but shows the spool,

Image

Just bought a $34 BB-1LM and watching a couple of NGs.. oh dear.
I do have an old glass Browning Silaflex baitcasting rod but it's on the heavy side, works OK with the 5500, but will look for a Falcon..


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Post 04 Dec 2018, 21:21 • #35 
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great snag - the fast glass bait rods of the 70s were very good, Lew's, Fenglas - even my old Berkley Tri-Sport spinning rod - for awhile, Japanese collectors slammed the collectors' market, and prices for Lew's Speedstick and Fenglas Lunkerstick were over the top - quick search shows they're back to reality.

Cabelas has the full line of Lami, from light 7', 1/16-oz, to heavy 9', 4-oz.
As in my post at the top of this page, I finally fished my 8'2" med-heavy glass with 12-lb Seaguar for a week, and adore it. It will definitely cast 1/4-oz with aplomb, and I wouldn't be afraid to fish a 2-oz. spider weight with a slice of mullet in the surf.
A great graphite rod I fished all through the 80s and into the 90s was a Browning Hi-power. Somewhere in there I discovered Falcon rods.
I also wouldn't hesitate to buy new Lami or Falcon graphite in the exact length, lure and line weight you want to fish.
Nor do I hesitate - we have a good current discussion on Lami graphite going on corpusfishing - I'm not the only one in Texas who looks first to Washington for steelhead rods to fish inshore and surf.

There is one weak point on the Lew's with optional anti-reverse, the anti-reverse pawl, thin, formed bronze sheet. If it's engaged against a loaded spool (fish taking line), it will bend out of function. I replaced one with part from Roy's Tackle Town (Corpus Christi, and I believe they bought the inventory), but any parts for these reels probably require a tedious hunt to find now.


Last edited by bulldog1935 on 07 Dec 2018, 10:37, edited 5 times in total.

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Post 04 Dec 2018, 23:27 • #36 
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bulldog1935 wrote:

Good eBay deal on the Lew's Inshore. The spool is not as deep, and 2mm narrower than my almost new Super Duty, and its capacity is listed as 40-yards less (rated for 12-lb mono, 0.014" dia). I'm not a guy to fish braid, but here's my place for it. <SNIP>
Found it to be the smoothest distance-casting reel I've ever chunked. 150' casts with 1/4-oz were slow lobs. No question the new combo will out-cast the 9' G1325/Tica spinner (and all my other rods).
I don't think backlash will ever be an issue unless I get carried away.


I have at least a dozen-and-a-half baitcasting rigs set up that I use a lot for largemouth bass and pike fishing. I prefer Lew's reels, and have mostly the Tournament Pro models. I also have some high-end "bait finesse" bait casters from other manufacturers for lighter lures. I do have one of the Lew's Inshore models that I bring along on striper trips for days when we have too many guys in the boat to safely use fly rods.

Most folks don't believe you can cast as far with a baitcasting set-up as you can with spinning gear. Check out the casting distance records!

I'm right-handed and set up my bait casters with left-hand retrieve reels so I can retrieve, cast immediately without changing hands, and then begin retrieving the instant the lure hits the water.

I'm sure I can easily and efficiently make considerably more casts in a day's fishing with one of these rigs than with spinning gear and, for some reason, it seems more fun doing it. And if that wasn't important, none of us would probably be fly fishing!

Tight lines,
Bob


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Post 05 Dec 2018, 01:57 • #37 
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Location: Brazoria County, TX
Lots of folks, most of the world seems to like spinning tackle. I’ve never connected with spinning tackle and just don’t get the allure. I do like a nice baitcasting set up and have used them for over 40 years. I still enjoy using baitcasting rigs once in a while when the fly rod is impractical.


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Post 05 Dec 2018, 07:41 • #38 
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desmobob wrote:
...Most folks don't believe you can cast as far with a baitcasting set-up as you can with spinning gear. Check out the casting distance records!
...
Tight lines,
Bob

No question, you can cast farther with skill on a baitcaster than with a spinning rod.
I was proving that Arroyo dock fishing last month. My 9' Lami would get me so far, and my 8'1/2' bait rod would get me a little farther.
Spinning tackle brought lure fishing home to the masses and the timing of its introduction was perfect - the postwar entertainment market - before WWII, the masses didn't have entertainment time. By 1970, Mitchell 300 was ubiquitous, came with 2 different capacity spools, and would let you fish mountain streams to jetties. Give to spinning tackle, it lets everybody fish light lures.


Last edited by bulldog1935 on 05 Dec 2018, 07:44, edited 1 time in total.

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Post 05 Dec 2018, 07:44 • #39 
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My only experience with bait reels were Dad's old South Bends and they needed about two pounds weight to cast twelve feet, 'course he wasn't really a fisherman and the things may have been lacking lube or whatever; but, when I picked up a spinning rig at about 12 yo I never gave another thought to "level wind" gear. By the time they started getting back a big market share I'd gone to the fly rod, so, can you pitch underhand and back hand pretty good with good bait rigs? or is it all overhand the only way I've seen it done?


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Post 05 Dec 2018, 08:05 • #40 
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Trev, I have about 5 different casts with baitcasters, under-hand, either side, pendulum, overhead (with one or two hands on the long rod handle), and a sneaky spiral free-shrimp cast only I've worked out (that's pissed off a couple of guides).

Though you have to restore your own level wind at the end of the day (or the next day after your silk braid dries on the line winder), the quality benchmade NLW bait reels of the early 20th century still cast with anything made today (Shakespeare, Meek, Talbot) - especially the narrow spools. It was Abu that finally made the level wind work right. Lew's took the next logical step bringing casting back to those great NLW.


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Post 05 Dec 2018, 08:10 • #41 
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I haven't even used spinning gear in probably 20 years, but I don't see many young guys using it either for anything but trout and catfish, in this area at least the bait reels get far more use by bassers and I've watched enough to know that somebody has changed the reels. both in distance and line control/nesting. I just wondered that I always see them going from the shoulder.


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Post 05 Dec 2018, 08:16 • #42 
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Trev wrote:
I haven't even used spinning gear in probably 20 years, but I don't see many young guys using it either for anything but trout and catfish, in this area at least the bait reels get far more use by bassers and I've watched enough to know that somebody has changed the reels. both in distance and line control/nesting. I just wondered that I always see them going from the shoulder.


The latest reels may have ceramic/stainless steel hybrid bearings, mechanical centrifugal and/or magnetic spool brakes, and even computer-controlled spool braking systems powered by a micro-generator on the spool! Coupled with ultralight spools filled with thin braided lines, they allow for some impressive casting.

Tight lines,
Bob


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Post 05 Dec 2018, 09:11 • #43 
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desmobob wrote:

I'm right-handed and set up my bait casters with left-hand retrieve reels so I can retrieve, cast immediately without changing hands, and then begin retrieving the instant the lure hits the water.

I'm sure I can easily and efficiently make considerably more casts in a day's fishing with one of these rigs than with spinning gear and, for some reason, it seems more fun doing it. And if that wasn't important, none of us would probably be fly fishing!

Tight lines,
Bob

That's how my spinning gear was set up in the '60s, I don't see really how either rig could make more casts/retrieves in an hour or a day than the other? I can see that changing hands twice on each cast would be a hindrance and that was another reason not to like bait reels, for me. I don't recall ever seeing a LHR casting reel til recent years and then they are often used by lefties that still change hands?
Then I found that with fly line you don't have to retrieve at all, just let it drift and make a new cast. Probably three to five times more efficient.


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Post 05 Dec 2018, 09:32 • #44 
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Fly fishing shines in moving water. Tide passes also count. Fly fishing shines for stealthy sight-fishing, though, salt fish hammering mullet will turn on and chase a neutral-density TSL grasswalker faster than they'll turn on a fly - they'll also hang onto the lure forever - I've landed fish on this lure that weren't hooked, because they wouldn't let it go.
Blind fishing in still water, drifting a boat on the flats, a fly rod is more work than anything else.
I've mentioned in my salt reports, the TSL grasswalker presentation is the same as fishing a slime line on a fly rod, with the addition the lure automatically dog-walks with any retrieve, you can quadruple your cast distance, and do it over and over.

The Abu's ending in 1 are all LHW.
I cast my baitcaster left, retrieve right. I cast spinning tackle right and retrieve left.
(I bat right-handed, throw left-handed; tennis left hand, ping-pong right).
My buddy Lou can only retrieve right, and when he borrows one of my spinning reels, switches the handle around.
My daughter is that way, also.
Image


Last edited by bulldog1935 on 05 Dec 2018, 09:39, edited 1 time in total.

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Post 05 Dec 2018, 09:33 • #45 
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In the saltwater, sometimes it’s really tough to get close enough to the structure or fish to make a fly set up efficient. One such place is in the surf when fishing in a power boat. Often fish will be in the inner guts and it just isn’t practical to get a boat in close enough with intervening sand bars and wave action. I’ve seen this play out and struggled to match the distance using a fly set up that my fishing partner could with his baitcasting rig.

But if I can get the distance to where it’s cast, drift, or a strip or two, then repeat, the fly set up wins over the others. Often in a kayak or wading and sometimes a boat, it’s very possible to get the distance just right to make fly fishing the most efficient. I don’t think a lot of baitcasting and spinning gear users appreciate how a fly rod can potentially make multiple presentations in the same time they can make one with their rigs. The fly rod normally has an advantage in the marsh or shallow bay over baitcasting or spinning when sight fishing for the ability to make repeated presentations to the same fish without ever having to reel in any line. Flies are so much more stealthy if need be and then there’s the ability to mend around obstacles.


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Post 05 Dec 2018, 09:52 • #46 
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Those of us doing both for 50 years know from experience, and how to prioritize.
30 years ago I was in the phase of prioritizing the fly rod whenever possible, including flats fishing a drifting boat.
The smart thing then is blind fish the bait tackle, have a slime-line-rigged fly rod handy, and switch for visible fish sign.
Image
Wading the barrier island lakes, there's no reason to take a bait rod.
While you can imitate a crab or shrimp with a bait rod, everything about fly fishing presentation is superior in close.
Image
I don't fish still freshwater, because I have the hill country limestone creeks and only use a fly rod.
Though growing up, Dad and I went through a reservoir bass-fishing phase, along with salt sloughs, tide passes and jetties.
I pounded bass with a fly rod when we took the semi-vee to the cut banks of the slow Nueces at Crystal City.
Taught my girls to fish spinning tackle young, and fly rod equally young.
Though the OP premise on this thread is actually about why would anyone use a baitcaster.


Last edited by bulldog1935 on 15 Dec 2018, 22:00, edited 4 times in total.

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Post 05 Dec 2018, 09:54 • #47 
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For sure fly is distance limited and imo that goes for depth as well, since the sink lines require me to retrieve.
I throw right handed and bat left handed, use pick, shovel or ax left and hammer right. Shoot with either han. Funny the habits we get into. I used to cast with either hand, but lately just use the right hand to cast and the left to wind.

Suggest a reel/rod to look for for light to medium stream fishing, primarily SMB?


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Post 05 Dec 2018, 10:37 • #48 
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Some are habits, though wiring is predominant.

You're lucky, can fish a small capacity baitcaster - the narrower the spool, the better. I would look at 6 to 6-1/2' Falcon one-piece rods in your lure and line weight.
Check out this reel,
https://www.lews.com/casting/mach
then check this ebay vendor for availability and price.
https://www.ebay.com/usr/jbcoutfitters? ... 2749.l2754

After you load the reel, first thing to do is over-tighten the casting brake.
then ease it back and let your weight drop to set the casting brake.
work on short accurate casts and get a feel for the system.
You should lightly feel the moving spool with your thumb during the cast.
If you get spool fuzz during the cast, the precursor to backlash, add mag.
Of course touch the spool when your bait lands, then click the crank.
Never jerk your cast, always smooth acceleration.


Last edited by bulldog1935 on 05 Dec 2018, 10:44, edited 1 time in total.

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Post 05 Dec 2018, 10:40 • #49 
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Looking the Falcon rods they all appear to have that tit sticking out at the handle like the spincast handles handles that I hated. Is that a necessary part of bait casting?


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Post 05 Dec 2018, 10:45 • #50 
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If you don't want a trigger on a casting rod, you're going to have to make a custom using a spinning seat, or go back to 1914 FE Thomas


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