It is currently 20 Apr 2024, 05:28


Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next New Topic Add Reply
Author Message
Post 05 Dec 2018, 11:09 • #51 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 11/06/17
Posts: 2511
Location: South of Joplin
I wouldn't know what I want, like I said my exposure to bait casting has been minimal and with poor equipment. But the legs are getting old and I'm thinking about fishing from the bank more.
Does the trigger help? Is it necessary or an affectation? I could refurbish one of the old spinners that have been in storage a long time, I used to drop a lure in a coffee can from about any direction with one of them, or I could build out a blank for either casting or spinning. Kicking around ideas.
How light a lure should I be able to toss with that reel?


Top
  
Quote
Post 05 Dec 2018, 13:30 • #52 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19104
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
you'll probably like it.
I noticed my newest Lami has the smallest trigger I've ever seen on a bait rod. It seemed offensive until I loaded the reel, and it's very cozy.
IMO, a baitcaster is going to be way more accurate than a spinning rod.
I can cast 1/8 oz with my old Shakespeare Tournament 1740 on 5' Montague Flash cane - I bet with practice you could cast 1/16 oz with the right rod and that reel.


Last edited by bulldog1935 on 13 Dec 2018, 06:57, edited 1 time in total.

Top
  
Quote
Post 05 Dec 2018, 13:44 • #53 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 11/06/17
Posts: 2511
Location: South of Joplin
Now there's an idea, I happen to know a rod maker that does beautiful bamboo work. i may ask him what he can turn out. I was admiring one of his spinning rods a day or two ago on the creek, and his fly rods work as well as they look.


Top
  
Quote
Post 07 Dec 2018, 10:17 • #54 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19104
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
look at this Trev,
Lami makes an inshore casting rod with no trigger, and glass/graphite blend.
yes, they're proud of it.
https://www.amazon.com/Lamiglas-Casting ... 692011_1_8


Top
  
Quote
Post 07 Dec 2018, 11:32 • #55 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 11/06/17
Posts: 2511
Location: South of Joplin
Say, I like the looks of that, might be bigger than i need for these Ozark creeks, though. Thanks for your insights on the options. This is mostly just information gathering for me at present, I'll stick with feathers as long as I'm able to wade. I've even developed a sit on the stool and roll cast technique for the trout parks, for those bad knee days. But I may pick up one of those reels just in case, at worst I could resale it.
The trigger might not bother me once I used it, but in all my tools I have preferred simple smooth handles and things that stick out seem to be in the way like the proverbial sore thumb. Probably I'll pick out a fleamarket piece to mess with and see how those type handles actually feel, every junk store and pawn shop around here has barrels of bait casting cast offs.


Top
  
Quote
Post 08 Dec 2018, 09:12 • #56 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19104
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
Sounds perfect for tinkering.
There are a few rod lines offering 1/16 oz low end capacity on a salty baitcaster.
https://www.tackledirect.com/falcon-sc- ... g-rod.html
But I ran across this range of lighter inshore rods, their shorter ML rods look pretty perfect for a wide range of fishing, and even their medium rods start at 1/8 oz.
http://www.13fishing.com/omen-green-2/


Top
  
Quote
Post 10 Dec 2018, 13:39 • #57 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 07/11/14
Posts: 1786
Location: urban Colorado
that Falcon casting rod rated for 1/16 seems implausible.. even with the new finesse baitcasting reels, 1/16 is a stretch. Better off with a spinning rod at that weight..
There's a whole world of finesse baitcaster reel tuning/parts, I find.

1/8oz seems to be the reasonable lower limit nowadays, without getting into the highly specialized bits. I just bought the new Lews Laser SG1, rated for 1/8 to 1/2oz, to try out..
my old glass baitcast rods, one Browning Silaflex and the other an Abu Zoom, are both rated 1/2 to 1oz. Maybe I need to try pike fishing, so I can throw lures that size.. ha. The little CO bass I catch don't need anything that big.


Top
  
Quote
Post 10 Dec 2018, 15:08 • #58 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19104
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
Small jigs can be killer for seatrout, and give you good depth control over grass, so there's kind of a whole inshore trout tourney school built around soft-tip (fast mid) baitcast rods.
Honestly, they're fished in conditions where a fly rod would shine.


Top
  
Quote
Post 11 Dec 2018, 09:13 • #59 
Master Guide
Joined: 01/25/18
Posts: 553
Location: Brazoria County, TX
I like and prefer using 1/16 ounce jig heads when using baitcasting reels for Speckled trout and redfish. Since switching to fly tackle, I don’t use baitcasting gear like I did for the first 35 years of my fishing life, but it’s much like riding a bike. Not sure what the various paddle tails, Assassins, DSL, H&H, or the rat tails I used with the jig heads weighed. 1/16 ounce jigheads with the tail attached cast great. I can cast something as light as, exactly that light, a bare 1/16 ounce jig head fine with a baitcasting rig, certainly good enough for sight fishing distances and accuracy requirements and without a backlash.

It’s very easy and many are prone to overpower a cast using such light weights on baitcasting reels.

I don’t do anything aftermarket to the reels. 2nd generation Revo SX, a Lews, can’t remember which one, some of the shimanos, were the ones I liked. The one I occasionally use now on my friend’s boat is an old Shimano Citica. They all seem to work with 1/16 ounce jig heads rigged with 3” or 4” plastics.


Top
  
Quote
Post 11 Dec 2018, 09:50 • #60 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19104
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
A 3" paddle tail probably weights between 1/16 and 1/8-oz all by itself, so you'd be casting over 1/8-oz - I've cast a few with just a kahle hook in super-skinny water, and rigged these for friends who don't fly fish.
Certainly smaller ones weigh less.
Neutral density swimbait, TSL grasswalker, weighs 1/4 oz (and casts like a bullet).
Even rods rated 3/8-2-oz, I've free-shrimped just fine, so a soft touch can cast/fish near-weightless on a baitcaster, well below the light-end rating.
If you're trying to optimize cast distance, sticking to the rating on each end is appropriate. Too light and too much effort will backlash when the lure stalls, and too much weight will flex the rod too far to get good speed from the rod.

A long-leader cigar cork bait rig with a small 2" live shrimp is next to impossible to cast with a baitcaster, because the weightless cork acts like a parachute, though it zips through the water for spooky pier trout. Only fish these on XUL spinning tackle.


Top
  
Quote
Post 11 Dec 2018, 10:37 • #61 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/06/15
Posts: 1249
Location: Central Oregon
If an old dog wanted to learn baitcasting, say for tossing medium weight lures to bass and steelhead, what would be a good set-up?


Top
  
Quote
Post 11 Dec 2018, 14:24 • #62 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19104
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
Newfydog wrote:
If an old dog wanted to learn baitcasting, say for tossing medium weight lures to bass and steelhead, what would be a good set-up?
bulldog1935 wrote:
Some are habits, though wiring is predominant.

You're lucky, can fish a small capacity baitcaster - the narrower the spool, the better. I would look at 6 to 6-1/2' Falcon one-piece rods in your lure and line weight.
Check out this reel,
https://www.lews.com/casting/mach
then check this ebay vendor for availability and price.
https://www.ebay.com/usr/jbcoutfitters? ... 2749.l2754

After you load the reel, first thing to do is over-tighten the casting brake.
then ease it back and let your weight drop to set the casting brake.
work on short accurate casts and get a feel for the system.
You should lightly feel the moving spool with your thumb during the cast.
If you get spool fuzz during the cast, the precursor to backlash, add mag.
Of course touch the spool when your bait lands, then click the crank.
Never jerk your cast, always smooth acceleration.

If you want to do it new, I'd go with the Lew's reel in my link above.
If you want to go old, and about half the cost, a good condition Lew's BB-1 variant, which are all over ebay.

I'd stick with 10-12 lb mono or fluoro.

Patient ebay, wait for a Falcon Glass rod to turn up. But I also wouldn't hesitate to buy Falcon graphite - they're all 1 piece.
There are whole bunch of rods brought up on this thread, but you should look for one that matches the line, minimum lure weight 1/8 oz, and max lure weight 3/8 to 1/2 oz.
As a rule, longer rods are easier to cast, because they develop more line speed with smooth controlled casts.


Top
  
Quote
Post 11 Dec 2018, 15:18 • #63 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 07/11/14
Posts: 1786
Location: urban Colorado
Newfydog wrote:
If an old dog wanted to learn baitcasting, say for tossing medium weight lures to bass and steelhead, what would be a good set-up?


1/4 oz and up is quite straightforward with a baitcaster, actually prefer it to spinning at these heavier lure weights.. so there are a lot of options here.

The new baitcasters have all kinds of backlash controls, all the way up to microchips in the Shimano DC reels, priced appropriately for a reel that includes a computer.. plus lightweight spools, optimized line guides, etc.
They are significantly better for their purpose than the older reels, unlike fly reels. New fly reels really haven't added much if any functionality over the classic click/pawls that we love.

My shortlist of new baitcasters at the budget end, $100 or so, is:
Abu RevoX Revo 4, found one on fleabay inexpensively, will report back.
Shimano Caenan 150, good reviews for easy casting, plus I trust Shimano's engineers.
Daiwa Tatula CT, this has a patented line guide that makes a lot of sense to me.

For older reels the Lews series that bulldog recommended, look good. I have one of those coming too..

The issue with low profile bass reels for steelhead is that most of these reels have limited line capacity, 110yd or so, which could be inadequate. The older Abu baitcasters have much better capacities. I used my Abu 323 in the salt/estuary for salmon and steelhead with 200yds of 14lb, it worked great. But then you do lose a bit of castability for the lighter lures. As noted though if consistently over 1/4 oz, these reels should be fine. There are a million old Abu Ambassadeurs on fleabay, I like the made-in-Sweden ones. Newer Ambassadeur 'round reels' are cranked out of Korea, probably just fine, but haven't tried one. The 6500 is a good steelhead size.

For rods, again the newer ones actually do have an edge over older glass, I am sorry to say.. though 70s Fenwick or Lamiglas will be very close.
See bulldog's post above, viewtopic.php?p=336323#p336323

Bass rods traditionally are short, 5'6" even. For steelhead and bass both I'd lean towards a longer rod, 7ft or so. This gives better distance casting and is still capable on bass.

I have used braid lines on baitcasters but they can generate insoluble backlash tangles.. so prefer mono still. Spiderline has a mono which seems to be well liked, have some on order now.


Top
  
Quote
Post 11 Dec 2018, 16:00 • #64 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19104
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
line - Seaguar all the way.

I just made the steelhead connection - for new I'd look at larger capacity like Lew's Super Duty or the new BB-1.
Check the ebay vendor in my post I quoted above.
http://www.ebaystores.com/JBC-Outfitter ... 34.c0.m322

Long rod for steelhead - think I'd be looking at 7-1/2' or longer.
Okuma makes some good moderately priced rods, like the SST - there's a 7'10" medium steelhead rod SST-C-7101MGM.
But the range of rods from 7' to 8' is a pretty good overlap for bass, inshore, and steelhead.


Last edited by bulldog1935 on 13 Dec 2018, 06:37, edited 1 time in total.

Top
  
Quote
Post 11 Dec 2018, 22:36 • #65 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 07/22/11
Posts: 1720
Location: US-TX
Been away from baitcasting reels so hearing about computer chips in reels caused me to grimace.

Seems too much of an experience insulating factor that would make me give up fishing or pick up a fly rod with a click and pawl reel.


Top
  
Quote
Post 12 Dec 2018, 09:05 • #66 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19104
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
a single post about computer chip in one model reel hardly surmises the content of this thread
I brought this thread back up because I bought my first low-profile baitcaster this summer, and liked it enough to buy a second along with a rod that fit a hole - these are very likely my last.
I fish them alongside my classic - now venerable - Lew's.
(and I also bought a Meek 30)

Quite a bit of the thread discusses where to prioritize what tackle - each has a place where it shines above the others, and places where having it in your hand would be obstinate if not pointless. Moving water is a great fly rod advantage. Stealthy fly casting (only) to fish sign is another. If making 30 blind casts is what's required to find fish, using the fly rod is probably obstinate, and using other methods makes more sense - and is more enjoyable.

the thread certainly fits in the context of this forum

Bill Muth, who posts occasionally on this forum, mostly fishes from his collection of early postwar Pfluegers.
Marc, appgap on Clark's board, goes bass fishing with c. 1910 Shakespeare NLW reels (I helped him single out those reels for their quality).
Last time I went reservoir bass-fishing, I caught bass on my Thomas/Talbot combo, and the Arjon/Altex combo in the forum masthead photo - I also fly fished slow-sipping white bass in a trico hatch.
Image
Honestly, if your goal is plugging the bank from your canoe or pirogue, and to educate your thumb, pretty tough to beat the right Heddon cane bait rod, narrow spool pre-WWI Shakespeare reel, 10- to 15-lb braided silk or nylon - and a line winder to let your braid dry at the end of the day (and let you restore your base level wind).
You can loop-on fluoro leader (in the old days it was silk gut) and tie on all the lures you want, though one of my favorite lures is a buzz bait simply slid inside the loop on the end of the braid.
Mason, Gudebrod,and Woodstock all sell new traditional soft nylon and dacron braid - the Gudebrod is "Meatmaster", available in 100-yd spools.
Even micro-baitcasting is nothing new - diminutive prewar Shakespeare Tournament freespool, which sings with 1/8 oz on 4-lb silk braid.
Image Image

If you want something more versatile, the venerable Lew's will cover everything you want to do.

Image
Image

a rod we haven't broached is St. Croix's Legend S-glass baitcaster - they're pretty proud of it, about the same cost as Lami G1000 Pro, and it's also getting rave reviews
https://www.tackledirect.com/st-croix-l ... -rods.html
https://stcroixrods.com/products/legend-glass-casting


Top
  
Quote
Post 12 Dec 2018, 09:08 • #67 
Master Guide
Joined: 01/25/18
Posts: 553
Location: Brazoria County, TX
I haven’t read all of the 66 responses so someone might have already discussed this, but in my experience, baitcasting set ups are better balanced for tasks like “walking the dog” style of lures or twitch baits. Here along the Texas Coast, there’s a number of popular and effective hard walk the dog style top water hard lures made by Heddon, Mirrorlure, and Rapala and some others that are either soft or hard subsurface twitch baits like Paul Brown Corky or Mirrorlure Soft Dine. To make them move properly, it takes a lot of control of the rod tip. I find it much easier to do this with a low profile baitcasting reel that’s mounted very close to the rod versus a spinning reel hanging well off and below the rod. With the baitcasting set up, the hands are very close to each other making it easier to coordinate the movement as opposed to a spinning reel with one hand located on the reel handle well below the hand on the rod.

Fine control of the rod tip as it relates to the action of a lure makes a big difference in getting strikes or not and good hook sets. Having a mass hanging below the rod like a spinning reel with the hands separated seems to fight against the precise control of the rod tip. No doubt people probably mostly overcome and compensate for the balance issue, but why fight it?


Top
  
Quote
Post 12 Dec 2018, 09:44 • #68 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19104
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
Perfect call, dog-walking jointed mirrolures. Brings back a S. Padre dawn - long run in the dark to Oilfield Flat - where dog-walking a red mirrolure brought my first trout to hand.
We immediately drifted into such fish sign, I put down the bait rod, grabbed the slime-line-rigged fly rod, Fence Lake Roach (below), and almost limited out (limit was 10 back then).
I'll also admit to not carrying my jointed plugs anymore - TSL grasswalker has obviated them for me, and starting the morning with pink is almost cheating.

Image
pink Trout Support Lure
Image


Top
  
Quote
Post 15 Dec 2018, 17:22 • #69 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19104
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
One more show and tell for any of you guys who got the bug for vintage baitcasting - finally spooled up the Meek No. 30, though it's too cold even here to go out and chunk it - maybe this afternoon.
Image
OK, I cast the Thomas/Meek combo this afternoon - I was amazed, 100' casts with 1/4 oz. It casts almost as well as my Lew's - ok, not quite, but it did greatly exceed my expectation for an old LW.
I did get a couple of minor backlashes, and the casting brake is touchy, but makes a big difference. Too much and it won't cast very far - too little and you get backlash, but there's a perfect touch on it combined with thumb that zings out longer casts than I expected.


This reel is Horton Mfg Co. benchmade effort, the first expired-patent Marhoff copy wearing the Meek name, c. 1930.
The difference between the feel and function of this reel any other level-wind baitcasters up to Abu is a pretty wide gap.
You feel the hand-fit-up in this reel, and no part of the mechanism has any bad habits. Casting drag is the screw knob on top, which drags a wool brush against the inside of the spool face.
But that feel is why I recommend the Shakespeare NLW reels of the 19-teens (even the low-grade ones) to people who want to tinker with this - unless you can get your hands on a Meek or Talbot.

Short of tournament casting, the goal of casting these reels is the opposite of speed spool - you want slow spool casts, and control fishing in close with 6' or shorter rods.
If you want long brave casts (up to 150'), you can do it in slow lobs with long bait rods, such as Doc Henshall's 8'3" bass rod.
Image

Spooling the Meek No. 30, size-wise an 80-yd reel for the day, reached into my stash of NOS braid spools bought up over the years, began with a 50-yd base of 20-lb nylon, and fit 100 yards of Gudebrod Meatmaster 15-lb dacron over that.
(another reason those narrow 40-yd spools are desirable - it takes a lot of line to fill this one)
Image

and don't forget a line winder to dry those braids, and let you restore your base level wind on your NLW reel after a day of fishing.
Image

Of course you can still do this with your grandad's Pflueger Summit and glass Heddon Pal, but again, the tight feel of those early hand-fit spool bushings is nice.
Also, the faster tip of cane or steel bait rods fishes better than most early glass bait rods.
This is my favorite early postwar Pflueger Skilkast, which has a fairly effective friction casting drag (and too reflective to be photogenic) - the rod is Heddon Pal Standard glass
Image


Last edited by bulldog1935 on 16 Dec 2018, 06:55, edited 2 times in total.

Top
  
Quote
Post 15 Dec 2018, 17:54 • #70 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 11/06/17
Posts: 2511
Location: South of Joplin
It just occurred to me that I never have seen any one cast a bait very far. Plugs, spoons, jigs yeah, not bait.


Top
  
Quote
Post 15 Dec 2018, 18:52 • #71 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8931
Location: US-ME
Never did keep up with all the new baitcasting lures and techniques once I started fly fishing. Very much enjoying the coverage of newer stuff. I can still cast a Jitterbug or Daredevil the size of a serving spoon with this one, though.

Image


Top
  
Quote
Post 17 Dec 2018, 08:45 • #72 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19104
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
Trev wrote:
It just occurred to me that I never have seen any one cast a bait very far. Plugs, spoons, jigs yeah, not bait.
Two things you need to see then, free shrimping and surf casting.
Both work best with a baitcaster, because there's no jerk in the cast.
People buying surf-specific tackle go for NLW reels - Avet, Sealine - to get maximum cast distance with their bait.
(as I've been pointing out about Lew's reels, they pretty much duplicate the non-level-wind cast by using a narrow spool and disengaged rider)

whrlpool wrote:
Never did keep up with all the new baitcasting lures and techniques once I started fly fishing. Very much enjoying the coverage of newer stuff. I can still cast a Jitterbug or Daredevil the size of a serving spoon with this one, though.
Image
That big freespool service reel is especially good for boat fishing, trolling or squidding.
Also a good reel to take to the surf or jetties for the combination of line capacity and cast-ability.
You might have more fun fishing the jitterbug on the smaller size baitcasters we've been discussing, but I can especially see the Rocket zinging a spoon.
In my small Pflueger collection, I have a Norka (back right - Akron spelled in reverse), which is a prewar version of the Rocket LW in nickel-silver, also before the star drag - just a little less expensive than the Meek 30 in 1940.
Image
Even earlier version of the NLW free-spool is the Pflueger Bond, front right, listed as a tarpon reel in 1924.

Also worth mentioning, the old-style leather thumb brake. I have 3 reels wearing these, this is a 4Bros Beacon.
Image


Last edited by bulldog1935 on 18 Dec 2018, 11:35, edited 5 times in total.

Top
  
Quote
Post 17 Dec 2018, 11:46 • #73 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8931
Location: US-ME
Thanks ! That Rocket was a do-all for still fishing bait in fresh and saltwater, hornpout and perch to flounder. So I would cast for smallmouths or largemouths, or maybe a pickerel, with it before darkness fell and I could fire up the Coleman lantern and dunk worms for hornput. In other words, a winch first, a caster second.


Top
  
Quote
Post 17 Dec 2018, 13:51 • #74 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19104
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
Many times, that Coleman lantern on a board on the beach was the only stationary reference point for night-time surf fishing.
Today, people always come to my campsite to check it out - great conversation starter, still with packs of mantles in the plastic storage box.
At the time I bought it, could have instead purchased one of the new propane lanterns, but I wanted a scout-water lantern.
Still have a great Coleman single burner scout-water stove, and it still works great - they call it a backpacking stove, but of course, it's not.


Top
  
Quote
Post 24 Dec 2018, 12:21 • #75 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19104
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
btw, I picked up a Christmas present for me - OK a couple.
First, I got the Kokatat tempest goretex dry pants with built-in goretex socks and gaitors - amazingly comfortable - much more comfortable than waders, and they fit inside kayak-size wading shoes (Astral Hiyak).
But the reason I posted, also picked up the 13 Fishing Omen one-piece rod, 7'1", 6-12lb, 1/8-1/2oz.
The rod is freakishly lightweight, soft tip, fast taper - I've only cast 1/4 oz with it, but it will zing it out of sight, and should be very impressive with 1/8 oz.
Image


Last edited by bulldog1935 on 24 Dec 2018, 18:26, edited 1 time in total.

Top
  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  

Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next New Topic Add Reply



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Google
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group