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Post 09 Jul 2022, 13:39 • #1 
Guide
Joined: 12/07/17
Posts: 128
Location: Long Island, NY
I think Shakespeare’s glass Sigma Supra RT 6 wt is a fly rod and reel outfit. I saw one at a yard sale for $30 and can’t find any online for sale to compare Are these any good? $30 seems steep but that’s with reel. Any feedback would be appreciated. Cheap sub $50 glass rod option?


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Post 09 Jul 2022, 16:22 • #2 
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Joined: 01/10/06
Posts: 7811
Location: Holly Springs, NC
Shakespeare has used the Sigma name on their gear for at least 40 years. That doesn't mean the outfit is good or bad, just that it is almost impossible to guess when it was made. Shakespeare has also sold rod/reel/line outfits from big box stores for at least 30 years. I have never purchased one or handled the rod. I can't recall much discussion of them in the forum either.

Just because the seller is asking $30 doesn't mean you have to pay them $30. Offer $10 or $15. If you can get a low price, the reel/line alone may be worth it.

A couple of things I would look for:
  • Cork grip - foam grips are not fun on fly rods. They are simply too soft.
  • Tip over butt ferrule(s) - butt over tip ferrules usually result in a too soft tip stuck onto a too stiff butt
  • Metal reel - In general all plastic isn't a good option for durability
  • Tapered fly line - the really cheap outfits came with a level line

None of these are deal killers, but they are reasons to lower your asking price. For instance, a 6 weight level line with a short leader should turn over popping bugs with authority.


Tom


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Post 10 Jul 2022, 12:10 • #3 
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Joined: 02/27/16
Posts: 2327
Location: US-IL
Are not metal ferruled rods technically butt over tip?I understand what you are saying about the action but i have several heddons in that configuration that fish better 1 line up and an 8wt that casts bass bugs well.I think the OP is about those composite combos that used to be sold everywhere.Those probably put many folks OFF fly fishing forever as it would be hard to learn on them.My heddons are sleeved ,the newer Eagle Claws are butt over and are not that soft and ridiculously cheap.


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Post 10 Jul 2022, 18:45 • #4 
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Joined: 01/10/06
Posts: 7811
Location: Holly Springs, NC
the hersh wrote:
Are not metal ferruled rods technically butt over tip?
No. The issue is the rod blank diameter on either side of the ferrule.

For a standard metal ferrule rod, the rod blank diameter does not change drastically at the ferrule*. The builder takes a 1-piece rod, cuts it in two, and installs the ferrule. The same thing happens with spigot ferrules and sleeve ferrules - the rod blank diameter does not change drastically.

For a butt over tip ferrule (or a tip over butt), one section of the rod blank must literally fit inside the other. The diameters of the two pieces are dramatically different, so much so that separate rod blanks are used. With a butt over tip blank, the tip section is considerably thinner than the butt. The tip section is therefore much more flexible at the ferrule than the butt. That gives the 'hingey' feeling that only the outer portion of the rod blank is bending.


Tom

* Step down ferrules would give the same effect as a butt over tip glass ferrule, but those are rarely used on glass rods


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Post 13 Jul 2022, 07:29 • #5 
Guide
Joined: 12/07/17
Posts: 128
Location: Long Island, NY
Thanks for enlightening responses. The seller wouldn’t budge from $30 so I passed but a few interesting questions came up. So tip over butt ferrule blanks are laid up on two different mandrills and what is the opinion on butt over tip ferrules? Some highly regarded cheap Eagle Claw rods have this configuration? What are the pros and cons? Are blanks laid up in one piece and then cut to accommodate the tip over butt or butt over tip ferrules which also takes into consideration that the sections are equal lengths?


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Post 17 Jul 2022, 00:39 • #6 
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Joined: 01/10/06
Posts: 7811
Location: Holly Springs, NC
Tip over butt ferrule blanks are laid up on two different mandrills and what is the opinion on butt over tip ferrules? - Both tip-over-butt and butt-over-tip rods are laid up on different mandrels - or different runs on the same mandrel. Because of the drastic diameter change of the tip compared to the butt, the tip is much softer, or the butt is glass and the tip is graphite. Neither is optimal.

Some highly regarded cheap Eagle Claw rods have this configuration? What are the pros and cons? The Eagle Claws are a glass tip in a glass butt. The rod works rather well up close. But the further you try to cast, the more the tip section collapses. The butt section does not pick up the load. Butt-over-tip rods simply don't handle as well as other rod designs.

Are blanks laid up in one piece and then cut to accommodate the tip over butt or butt over tip ferrules which also takes into consideration that the sections are equal lengths? - it could be, but probably not. It would be a serious waste of materials. A tip over butt design would have to come from either four separate rod lay ups, or two complete rods cut into pieces. Even then, the two complete rods would be a different design to account for sections of strengthened glass at the ferrules.


Tom


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Post 17 Jul 2022, 08:28 • #7 
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Joined: 02/27/16
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I see what your saying Tom.The Heddons I use especially the 8wt cast far even with a big fluffy bass bug.But you are correct.They are sleeved.I almost want to take one apart to see if they are a single blank cut in half.I guess j can take some measurements see if the taper is continuous with the pieces together and if the tip rests on or near the butt inside the sleeve.I hear you on the ECs but they do cast remarkably well and easily 40 feet even with an intermediate line and heavy fly.


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Post 18 Jul 2022, 06:59 • #8 
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Joined: 04/20/07
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It is easy to see the end of a blank by looking into the sleeve. Or to feel the blank's cut end with a probe--a toothpick will do--slid up the inner wall of the sleeve.


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Post 25 Jul 2022, 08:32 • #9 
Guide
Joined: 12/07/17
Posts: 128
Location: Long Island, NY
Jgestar, great insight on butt over tip rods and think your comments on the EC rods are accurate and they are definitely not distance rods, at least the 8’ 5/6 featherlight. I have tried to eke out some distance on it with shooting heads of 6, 7, and 8 to no avail. It casts good in close but beyond 50 feet it’s not consistently easy. I wanted a good beater rod for light salt water and it hasn’t performed that well at distances especially with a floater although I have caught fish in close. In addition, it is not good for single handed Spey which I was looking to practice since in one estuary I fish there is a big tree behind me which makes a back cast impossible.


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Post 28 Jul 2022, 14:41 • #10 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 02/27/16
Posts: 2327
Location: US-IL
Never thought of the ECs as salt water or even bass rods.I have been able to teach a couple folks how to cast and catch a fish on them .Without spending much in case they didn't get into it.And yes the blanks on the sleeved Heddons are made from a single blank as the tip rests on the butt in the sleeve or very close.On the 8wt i use for fishing bass in the slop it has performed quite well bringing in bass up to 5lbs and sometimes as much weight in weeds .I am sure the sleeve does not create any more of a hinging effect than a metal ferrule.I do not use any metal ferruled rods except for a couple short wonderods.I just don't like the feel of them.


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