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Re: Nobody likes 4 wts?
Post 18 Jul 2022, 12:10 • #51 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 07/11/14
Posts: 1784
Location: urban Colorado
I have only one 4wt, a modern glass one built from a Chinese blank.. not that I don't like them, just the vintage glass 4wts are scarce as hen's teeth, only made for a brief period in the 80s; cane 4wts are very expensive, and I don't much like graphite..


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Re: Nobody likes 4 wts?
Post 18 Jul 2022, 13:17 • #52 
Administrator
Joined: 01/10/06
Posts: 7811
Location: Holly Springs, NC
doug in co wrote:
...just the vintage glass 4wts are scarce as hen's teeth, only made for a brief period in the 80s...
Keep thinking that. It helps keep the prices down. ;)


Tom


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Re: Nobody likes 4 wts?
Post 14 Sep 2022, 10:47 • #53 
Guide
Joined: 04/20/10
Posts: 112
Location: US California Tahoe Sierras
The turn of glass to carbon the 8'0'' 3/4 ,4/5 wt from the J. Kennedy Fisher Company . These are great rod configurations.
Made with a very low carbon content 33mm modulus pre perg was on a fiber glass scrim . Were glass was in the mid 20's
When the low modulus carbons were in nice casting lower weight rods a wonderful dry fly action. Fisher's Original carbons did this better than any in a 8'0'' configuration in my opinion . Sage LL series 4t. & the Powell 4 wt.
9'0 were 2 others the stood out as well carbon Scott g seriesin the shorter sizes . Great Golden Age Fly Rods in the transformation glass to carbon fiber


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Re: Nobody likes 4 wts?
Post 18 Sep 2022, 19:35 • #54 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 10/20/11
Posts: 1880
Location: US-MD
Dag gone 4 weights… just terrible!


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Re: Nobody likes 4 wts?
Post 19 Sep 2022, 08:40 • #55 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19077
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
4 weights were curiosities when our favorite venerable glass rods were made.
As Randy noted, they came into their own with graphite in the 80s.
Certainly glass, cane, and moderate graphite all can make fine examples.


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Re: Nobody likes 4 wts?
Post 19 Sep 2022, 11:05 • #56 
Guide
Joined: 09/08/17
Posts: 117
Location: Fort Collins, CO
I posted this earlier in another thread, yet IMHO it bears repeating. So, if you get the chance please try the Montana Brothers Rodworks 904L, which over the past many months has continually cemented my first impressions: This is the finest fly rod that I have cast and fished. A 9 foot 4 weight rod is what I usually end up fishing here in Northern Colorado, and this most enjoyable graphite MBR 904L handles my needs perfectly. The 904L is positive yet delicate, with a slow action that is ever so smooth. I am a tad biased towards this MBR Rod because it has the pedigree of, yet surpasses, the wonderful Paul Brown rods from the early 1980s. Paul was the finest fly caster that I have run across, and he was an invaluable Instructor for me during the late 1970s early 1980s when I was the Director of Fenwick’s Montana Fly Fishing Schools. And full disclosure for this post, while I had the pleasure of participating in the field testing during development of the 904L, I have no financial interest in MBR. I paid the full retail price for my 904L, and I have already ordered and paid for MBR’s upcoming 903L. Doug, thanks for this thread!

Best, Bob


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Re: Nobody likes 4 wts?
Post 19 Sep 2022, 11:06 • #57 
Master Guide
Joined: 04/02/14
Posts: 537
Location: US- Northern CO
not naming names but i have some 4wts i wouldn't take fishing. not because of the line weight, its the rod i can't wrap my head around.


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Re: Nobody likes 4 wts?
Post 19 Sep 2022, 19:23 • #58 
Sport
Joined: 04/18/20
Posts: 28
Location: Central Texas
i have a Western Glass 8'6 4wt, and its a great small stream dry fly rod, and when that 18 inch plus trout takes in the timber, you're glad you have that 4 wt. It really shined on the beaver ponds this summer.


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Re: Nobody likes 4 wts?
Post 19 Sep 2022, 22:33 • #59 
Master Guide
Joined: 02/01/12
Posts: 900
Location: Upstate NY
The most popular line weight that I get orders for in glass are 4wts.

My first 4wt was a Diamondglass 804-2. Several other 4wts have also made their way into my personal stuff, Greywolf Natural 844-3, Western Glass 894-4 and my own Ondawa 794-3. The only factory 4wt I have is a SA System 4, blank by Fisher. Several CTS 4wts have been in there to over the years also.


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Re: Nobody likes 4 wts?
Post 21 Sep 2022, 00:04 • #60 
Master Guide
Joined: 01/04/18
Posts: 397
Location: Belair Maryland/Swanton Maryland
Who said nobody likes a 4wt?
“They” must be fishing those modern fast action 4’s that are really 5’s.
Some of the new rod Gurus need to cast one of these Fisher 4wts from the 1970s and reset and recalibrate themselves with what a real tru 4wt is about .. lol :lol


This Fisher Ultralight rod makes a System 4 rod feel likes it’s a quick 5wt..

It makes my Fisher/Phillipson Spigot Epoxite EF70 5wt feel like a Brute (which it ain’t )

I could only imagine what one of the Fisher rolled Winston Stalker’s is like .. and to think Winston made them in 3wt as well back in the 70s.
Those 3wt rods would probably cast a 1wt line like a champ .
My Fisher 4wt will throw a 2wt like butter …
Slow Melted Butter ..so soft and smooth

It’s all fun and lite line games until a 30mph breeze smacks you in the face ..
I’d be wishing for a McFarland Gtx at that point

Sshhh Don’t tell my wife I haven’t fished any of my Graphite 4’s since I fell in love last summer with the Fisher .
She for sure would make me put them on the chopping block.. or take two for herself . ;)


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Re: Nobody likes 4 wts?
Post 22 Sep 2022, 05:23 • #61 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 02/10/07
Posts: 1632
Location: The Netherlands
I could only imagine what one of the Fisher rolled Winston Stalker’s is like ..

———

I can tell you that they are sweet as butter mixed with honey :D
Super smooth, extremely light and very delightful


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Re: Nobody likes 4 wts?
Post 29 Sep 2022, 13:56 • #62 
Guide
Joined: 06/30/20
Posts: 250
ibookje - if you want to cast a Fisher rolled Winston rod, we gotta meet up! I've got a 7.5 foot 5wt non stalker, and a 7' 4wt stalker both! Send me a message happy to share the wealth.


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Re: Nobody likes 4 wts?
Post 29 Sep 2022, 17:26 • #63 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 09/18/09
Posts: 5561
Location: Relocated to the Drought Stricken West.
Does anyone have one of the original Diamondglass 8'6" 4wt's they are willing to part with? I remember not buying one fast enough and regretting it. But that was before my collection had ballooned.


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Re: Nobody likes 4 wts?
Post 29 Sep 2022, 17:29 • #64 
Guide
Joined: 03/21/22
Posts: 172
Location: US-PA
I enjoy fishing the new system 4 I picked up recently. Throws a nice loop and works well on medium to small streams. I had some success with the natives.
I also managed to sight fish a nice brown later on during my expedition.
I recently took a short drive to meet up with Ottobahn to trade some rods and he asked me to bring along my system 4 to compare with his Fisher listed above. He is not kidding when he says the system 4 casts and acts more like a fast 5. We did a side by side comparison of the two rods and you can see the difference for yourselves.
I casted both rods and his little 4 definitely was lighter and very fun to cast. I’m not saying the system 4 isn’t a great rod but between the two it felt more like a 5.

This guy right here for sure likes 4wts, especially that sweet Fisher of Ottobahn’s. I’m going to keep fishing the SA 4 and enjoy every minute of it.

Grab yourself a 4wt and an open mind, then go hit the stream fellow fiberglass fly rodders!


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Re: Nobody likes 4 wts?
Post 30 Sep 2022, 08:10 • #65 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19077
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
finding that rod is a coup


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Re: Nobody likes 4 wts?
Post 30 Sep 2022, 12:54 • #66 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 02/10/07
Posts: 1632
Location: The Netherlands
MrJesse34 wrote:
ibookje - if you want to cast a Fisher rolled Winston rod, we gotta meet up! I've got a 7.5 foot 5wt non stalker, and a 7' 4wt stalker both! Send me a message happy to share the wealth.

Oh that would be fun!


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Re: Nobody likes 4 wts?
Post 30 Sep 2022, 18:02 • #67 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 07/11/14
Posts: 1784
Location: urban Colorado
Bob G wrote:
The 904L is positive yet delicate, with a slow action that is ever so smooth. I am a tad biased towards this MBR Rod because it has the pedigree of, yet surpasses, the wonderful Paul Brown rods from the early 1980s.


interesting, thank you. That is quite the endorsement.. piqued my interest.. how would you compare it to the Sage LL rods ?
The LL is the slowest graphite I've encountered since the old Orvis Spring Creek which felt like cane. Not coincidentally my graphite 5wt is a LL 905-3.. maybe I need to add a 904L.. the blanks are very reasonably priced I see, at $380. Any glass 4wt will be around that price range or more..


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Re: Nobody likes 4 wts?
Post 01 Oct 2022, 12:13 • #68 
Guide
Joined: 02/18/18
Posts: 276
Location: US-TX
Ottobahn that is a very nice looking grip on the Fisher glass rod. I have not seen one before. Mine has a grip like the System 4 only shorter and a bit thinner. The Fisher Glass and the System 4 are very different but both are fun rods! How can you not like 4wts ?
Carl


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Re: Nobody likes 4 wts?
Post 01 Oct 2022, 14:00 • #69 
Master Guide
Joined: 01/04/18
Posts: 397
Location: Belair Maryland/Swanton Maryland
Cebfishingtools,
Thanks for the comment on my Fisher .
My original reel seat ,grip and check were toast so I had the rod customized to my liking ..
Here’s my Heretic’s story along with the build from last season
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=72205&hilit=Fisher+heretic
Stoked you’ve got one of the Fisher Ultralights and a System4 rod as well..
Both super cool rods but with very distinct personalities .
I’m seeing why it’s so hard to set a baseline for glass 4wts..

These 2 rods came out of the same factory both labeled 4wts but are kinda worlds apart!
What’s the true 4wt the System4 or the Fisher Ultralight 4 ??

The debate rages on even after 45years ..

I think it’s time for a Fisher Ultralight in action post
Carl, Hope you’ll join in and post up some pics of your fisher .
Free the 4wts!!!!
Scotto


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Re: Nobody likes 4 wts?
Post 02 Oct 2022, 11:04 • #70 
Master Guide
Joined: 07/04/15
Posts: 388
Location: Coppell, TX
4 wts are my favorite. For my type of fishing, blue gill, small bass and crappie on mostly windy days I think they are perfect.


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Re: Nobody likes 4 wts?
Post 04 Oct 2022, 07:59 • #71 
Master Guide
Joined: 05/08/06
Posts: 796
Location: RenoNV/FranklinWV
I just acquired an MBR 904L in September, I've had it out 1 time so far, a lovely rod although I don't think it's all that slow it is very smooth and handles really well from 10 feet to 40 or 45 feet, I'm happy.

I have a lot of 4 weights in Glass, Bamboo, and graphite and I probably use them more than any other line weight, my 6's are in close competition though.


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Re: Nobody likes 4 wts?
Post 05 Oct 2022, 07:56 • #72 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 02/10/07
Posts: 1632
Location: The Netherlands
I too don't think the MBR 904L is slow. It's a semi-parabolic action rod that casts great at fishing distances


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Re: Nobody likes 4 wts?
Post 05 Oct 2022, 14:41 • #73 
Master Guide
Joined: 09/26/10
Posts: 547
Location: Montana
As you know, rod action is a bit of a subjective term. But, I thought I might add a little color regarding the Montana Brothers 904L. If one were to compare it to the old Paul Brown rods, it is true that it is stiffer. In case you are curious about those old rods, there is a neat thread here viewtopic.php?f=3&t=13930&start=0 . But, one thing those old rods suffered from, in our opinion, was the tips were too light. You had to be careful with the tip when casting them. They really demanded a very consistent stroke from the user. And if the wind come up, as it usually does here in the West, the tip demanded even more attention. So, we designed the 904L, to have a stiffer, more controlled tip. But, once you start stiffening up the tip, you will need to stiffen the lower portions of the rod to help support the tip.

Since many folks have probably never seen one of Paul’s old rods, here is another attempt at a comparison. One rod that I like to use is the old pre-IM6 Winston 9 foot 3 weight 2 piece. But I like to fish it with a 4 weight line instead of a 3. Winston labeled this model as slow in their catalog. The 4 made it even slower. If one were to deflect that old Winston in comparison to the 904L, the 904L will defect more under the same load than that old pre-IM6 903. If one’s opinion is that softness is determined by deflection under a load, than one could conclude that the 904L is softer than the pre-IM6 Winston 903.

However, I feel that deflection tells only part of equation. The other part is how the rod bends or accepts the load. The 904L has a stiffer tip and a softer butt than the old Winston. It has what we at MBR would call a more integrated action or a much smoother bend. If one’s only definition of a soft rod is that it has to have a light tip than maybe it would not be called a soft rod. Our definition is a little more holistic of how the overall rod would bend. I will also add that while the tip is stiffer, it is still supple enough to protect light tippets on big fish.

I am probably in the minority, but I have never cared for the term semi-parabolic as it relates to rod action as there seems there is some disagreement of what a parabolic rod even is among some folks. The late Paul Brown, disagreed with what is commonly associated with what has been coined as a progressive rod. I suspect that some of his rod designing friends felt the same way. To Paul, a true progressive rod was one that had a bend that started at the same point, and the bend increased as the load increased. One might argue that the 904L is closer to that description. The progressive term has really stuck and I don’t think anyone will probably be able to change that. We have jokingly called the action of the 904L as truegressive.

In response to the original post, I would say that I use a four weight the most for the type of fishing I prefer.


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Re: Nobody likes 4 wts?
Post 07 Oct 2022, 23:45 • #74 
Guide
Joined: 03/02/14
Posts: 144
Location: US-peripatetic
Echoing what others said, I love 4 weights. It almost seems like 4 weight is the new 5 weight. Wasn't it Scott that found a healthy following by making 9' 4 weights when nobody else (or few others, anyways) was?


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Re: Nobody likes 4 wts?
Post 25 Sep 2023, 10:15 • #75 
Sport
Joined: 09/15/22
Posts: 25
I’m with all the 4 wt lovers out there. 764 is my favorite glass configuration. Never have liked longer rods. I also firmly believe in what I call the law of 4’s: one cannot go wrong with a good 4 wt and some good 4x. Switching from dries to streamers or big stonefly nymphs is no problem. Right now I’m running a nice livingst0n headwaters 764. Real nice rod…..cheers!


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