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Post 02 Mar 2021, 15:59 • #1 
Guide
Joined: 07/14/20
Posts: 111
The Orvis SFG 764 has been characterized as tippy, tip flex, or fast in terms of action. I would agree. The tip is light and the taper seems somewhat abrupt into a strong butt section. Like a mini Scott Radian, but with the feel of glass.

What other glass rods, if any, share this characteristic?

I'm particularly interested in 7'-8' 6wt iterations that feel light in hand in terms of swing weight and have a tip flex.

Thanks.


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Post 02 Mar 2021, 17:39 • #2 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19077
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
Cummings Water Witch is the extreme.
In cane, it's Thomas Light Special.
Heddon T tapers also have dry fly taper with short soft tip and fast mid.


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Post 02 Mar 2021, 18:02 • #3 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 03/16/08
Posts: 3540
Location: Upstate-NY
years ago, McFarland made a limited number of "Dry Fly Taper" un-sanded yellow-glass rods.
search the forum for an excellent review by Rich Margiotta...


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Post 03 Mar 2021, 01:07 • #4 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/27/14
Posts: 1501
Location: ON, Canada
The current version of the Epic 580 is definitely in this category.

I can't speak for the older versions of the 580. I also have an older (3pc) Epic 686, and that rod has a very different flex profile, so I don't know if it is a matter of the production generations or if it has always been design difference between the two tapers.


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Post 03 Mar 2021, 09:10 • #5 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8920
Location: US-ME
Various Shakespeares, usually Omni-Action and Kwik-Taper (see the Wiki accessed from the right of the home page banner) fit this description.


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Post 03 Mar 2021, 10:11 • #6 
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Joined: 06/24/11
Posts: 1144
Location: Belgium
I have had some strong butt, thin tip tapers custom made by CTS. These can be very effective rods.


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Post 03 Mar 2021, 11:09 • #7 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 11/06/17
Posts: 2498
Location: South of Joplin
Phillipson DFS? I don't fathom why any rod is called fast, but that thing has a very soft tip?


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Post 04 Mar 2021, 23:33 • #8 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/31/15
Posts: 1238
Location: Northern Rockies
Ditto on the Epic 580, and the 476 is similar in this regard.


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Post 05 Mar 2021, 21:43 • #9 
Master Guide
Joined: 06/07/12
Posts: 865
Location: US-CA
The black-with-green-wraps Scott F rods that I have are in the progressive zone. Don’t know if I would go all the way to calling them “tippy” though....


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Post 07 Mar 2021, 08:48 • #10 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/10/09
Posts: 1651
Location: US-OH
I can definitely agree with the description of the Orvis SFG 7'6" 4wt being "tippy" - especially when fished with a 4wt line. With a 5wt line less so. However, my experience with two Epic 580 Fastglass II rods is that they're simply progressive when fished with a Rio Gold WF5 or similar. With a lighter line they might seem more tippy.


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Post 08 Mar 2021, 20:43 • #11 
Master Guide
Joined: 10/07/11
Posts: 692
Location: SE MA
Of my rods, the South Bend/Gladding Classic II 8'6" 7wt has the softest tip. It takes some getting used to when hooking into a fish and maintaining a tight line. It was my first fly rod and so I adjusted to it as a kid, but the last time I fished with it, it was rather annoying. It does a fine job casting though.


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Post 08 Mar 2021, 20:50 • #12 
Guide
Joined: 07/14/20
Posts: 111
Thanks everyone for the comments. I enjoy the tippy action of the SFG 764, though I also enjoy all sorts of other rod actions. I really like that with the SFG 764 a mere flick of the wrist can elicit nice loops and good control. I look forward to casting and hopefully fishing some of the other tippy rods identified in the thread!


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Post 09 Mar 2021, 07:31 • #13 
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Joined: 08/10/05
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Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
Since nobody has talked about it, what you gain with a soft tip is the ability to accurately cast the leader alone, and generally good fishing in close.
Keeping that soft tip short in the rod length, combined with the fast mid that Trev doesn't get is what makes a great dry fly rod - getting line length out in a hurry - high line speed for quickly wringing out your soggy fly - and the two together protecting light tippet while still giving snappy strikes.


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Post 09 Mar 2021, 11:23 • #14 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 11/06/17
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Location: South of Joplin
My problem is with word usage.
Generally when a rod is described as 'fast' it is just stiff, tip not actually bending either, just flexing. I believe rods get any speed they have from the operator.
If "recovery time" is the "speed" determiner then a broom handle would be very 'fast' because it has so little to recover, if "recovery rate" is the determiner then we need a standard test that bends each rod into the butt and measures the recovery speed to recovery distance ratio.
"fast taper" describes a really fat butt tapering quickly to a fine tip and necessitates a short length, but is used interchangeably with "fast" and with "fast action" and some times with "tip flex" and on long rods with hardly any taper or with very gradual taper.
Rods that in the past I've heard described as "tippy" were also described as tip heavy.
I don't recall the FR2000 as being especially soft tipped, but when I was going through my Humphreys nymphing stage, I cast 20'+ "leaders" frequently with it.
Our descriptors are too subjective in nature and too undefined to be of real value with no reference standard.


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Post 09 Mar 2021, 13:53 • #15 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19077
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
then let it skin your teeth and call people out on it - it's easier to say a rod has a fast mid than to say it loads quickly and develops line speed quickly - if you want to contrast it, then consider the mid on CGR 7/8.
If it was just stiff, it would need a higher line weight. I'm sure if you try, you can also think of rods with slow mids.


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Post 09 Mar 2021, 20:50 • #16 
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Joined: 06/09/05
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Location: US-CO
Similar to whrlpool, my opinion of most of the old Shakespeare rods is that they tended to have a "tippy" action with a strong butt section. The Panfish Special 1245 (later the 922) is the Shakespeare I like the best. I have each of them and they are both 7 ft rods for a 6 wt. But, I am sure there are some nice 7'9" 6 wts that Shakespeare made that would be considered "tippy" that others on the board may be able to comment about. Is Gaddis on the net these days?


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Post 10 Mar 2021, 19:55 • #17 
Master Guide
Joined: 04/02/14
Posts: 537
Location: US- Northern CO
those CTS Custom blanks should be right up your alley. the 686 with a reduced tip, very light and very "tippy". the CTS standard blanks are strong on the bottom anyway and very light weight.


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Post 20 Jun 2021, 16:05 • #18 
Guide
Joined: 02/05/15
Posts: 262
Location: Hawkes Bay, New Zealand
I have both the Epic 580-3 and the newer 580-4. Use them quite regularly with DT5 line. The 580-3 would be tippy with more backbone lower down the rod. The 580-4 I think is a more progressive rod with less stiffness lower in the rod.


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Post 20 Jun 2021, 18:55 • #19 
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Joined: 08/25/08
Posts: 1526
Location: Delton, MI
A pretty good list characterizing this type of rod more or less, if you like that type. I’d add the Kenney 7’9” 4wt 3pc which has a very soft tip but not as heavy in the butt as the Orvis SFG.


Last edited by CrustyBugger on 21 Jun 2021, 10:10, edited 1 time in total.

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Post 20 Jun 2021, 22:44 • #20 
Master Guide
Joined: 02/04/12
Posts: 705
Location: SE Pa
paveglass wrote:
Similar to whrlpool, my opinion of most of the old Shakespeare rods is that they tended to have a "tippy" action with a strong butt section. The Panfish Special 1245 (later the 922) is the Shakespeare I like the best. I have each of them and they are both 7 ft rods for a 6 wt. But, I am sure there are some nice 7'9" 6 wts that Shakespeare made that would be considered "tippy" that others on the board may be able to comment about. Is Gaddis on the net these days?

I can attest this is true of a 7'6" FYA310 Wonderod. I could never get a feel for this rod because I would fish with a 5wt due to its tip seeming so soft - even though the script says "Recommended Line #6". Anyways, I finally did what Shakespeare recommended and bingo ! .... 6 is the ticket ! Fishes wonderfully.


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Post 21 Jun 2021, 07:48 • #21 
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Joined: 10/09/09
Posts: 2796
Location: US-NM
Don’t like tippy rods at all that have to strong of a butt...........Aurelio


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Post 21 Jun 2021, 14:32 • #22 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 10/20/11
Posts: 1880
Location: US-MD
Another vote for the Epic 580/4


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Post 23 Jun 2021, 15:18 • #23 
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Joined: 02/10/07
Posts: 1632
Location: The Netherlands
BlackHackle wrote:
I have both the Epic 580-3 and the newer 580-4. Use them quite regularly with DT5 line. The 580-3 would be tippy with more backbone lower down the rod. The 580-4 I think is a more progressive rod with less stiffness lower in the rod.


Ah, finally someone who gives a good comparison between the both versions, thanks!
I got the older three piece one and it's a very versatile rod. It can cast anything from a 4 weight to a 6 weight.


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