It is currently 25 Apr 2024, 00:20


New Topic Add Reply
Author Message
S Glass vs E glass
Post 04 Sep 2020, 03:19 • #1 
Sport
Joined: 02/14/18
Posts: 40
Location: Australia, Western Australia
Please enlighten me, Why would anyone choose the older, yesteryear standard E glass when unidirectional, thin., light, responsive S glass is available? I'm not putting down the other, because I have some great , coveted fenwicks ie, ff 806/4 , FF766/4 but it seems like the CTS / Epic Steffens in S glass and s2 are a real improvement . Why build with the older very common industrial E glass . please inform me!!! Thanks!!! Davedog ( I'm called this cause I sell Hotdogs in mobile stands in Australia)


Top
  
Quote
Re: S Glass vs E glass
Post 04 Sep 2020, 06:06 • #2 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/26/12
Posts: 1778
Location: Dubois Pa
Sometimes the extra mass is beneficial. I like eglass in shorter rods to help the load. I have an 8'1 5wt McFarland rolls for me from eglass. They are not as heavy as in the past.

It could also be said, why use sglass when graphite is lighter and has a better recovery.

I am also a bamboo guy so that could sway my opinion but I like a heavier rod for trout wt rods.
Bob


Top
  
Quote
Re: S Glass vs E glass
Post 04 Sep 2020, 06:57 • #3 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19109
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
E-glass shines in shorter rods.
7' and below, s-glass (and equivalent cane) don't make the sweet progressive tapers you can get from e-glass.
E-glass prepreg is also not fully isotropic - they increase fiber density in the long direction, which was Scotchply introduced in 1962.


Davedog, chatted with a street caribou dog vendor in Anchorage one slow day. He was from Texas, and made his full year's income in 3 months there every year.


Last edited by bulldog1935 on 04 Sep 2020, 06:59, edited 1 time in total.

Top
  
Quote
Re: S Glass vs E glass
Post 04 Sep 2020, 07:15 • #4 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 10/09/09
Posts: 2798
Location: US-NM
I think it has to do with the design of the rod that makes it great but the rods I like the most and fish are S glass.The S glass I fish are Steffens and a Scott F2 had a older Lammy S glass but liked their E better........Aurelio
Had the new E glass 5’8” Scott butt my Steffen 6’ loads better in close both are 3wts.


Top
  
Quote
Re: S Glass vs E glass
Post 04 Sep 2020, 07:56 • #5 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 03/16/08
Posts: 3543
Location: Upstate-NY
Kenney rods are "e". 'nuff said...


Top
  
Quote
Re: S Glass vs E glass
Post 04 Sep 2020, 08:31 • #6 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8933
Location: US-ME
S-glass is probably more attractive to contemporary makers whose market is anglers transitioning from graphite. It has a high-tech ring to it and sounds "new." It isnt; it has been around since the fiberglass era and was used by a few makers when "modulus" became the catch phrase for fly rods (as higher and higher modulus--stiffness--versions of graphite fiber were developed and each was touted in the "IMx" (improved modulus) phase of graphite rod development. And so presenting a fly became "throwing." "Casting," which is where fiberglass excels, letting the rod do the work, was forgotten.

Eglass and S glass have slightly different stiffness. Both excellent materials, the latter slightly more fragile, which is the price paid for increased stiffness. S-glass, being slightly stiffer, may also be attractive to makers and anglers who want 'glass rods in lengths more typical of graphite models.

Both make excellent rods. Corlay nailed it above, and could have added Fisher, Winston, Scott and many others. Smooth, progressive casting comfort--the edge probably goes to Eglass.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=50918&p=222556&hilit=S+glass+military#p222556


Top
  
Quote
Re: S Glass vs E glass
Post 04 Sep 2020, 10:30 • #7 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 11/06/17
Posts: 2513
Location: South of Joplin
I think the question is why would one want a flexible fly rod rather than a rigid fly rod or vice versa. Then there are degrees of rigidity and how that affects the energy stored in the bent rod and it's transfer to the line.
If we want a rigid rod, why stop at S-glass; carbon fibers produce greater rigidity with less weight? The choice is always about compromise.

A-glass, E-glass, E-CR-glass, C-glass, D-glass, R-glass, S-glass ... different kinds of rocks used to get different kinds of fiber applications. Carbon fibers. All industrial/military products.
What we really want is a fiber reinforced plastic and the plastic plays just as much a part as the fiber in the resulting material, I think. The plastics too are military/industrial items that have been adapted to our toys.


Top
  
Quote
Re: S Glass vs E glass
Post 04 Sep 2020, 10:55 • #8 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 08/14/06
Posts: 1229
Location: Panther City, Texas
I agree with Corlay, Kenney's e glass rods have a bit of extra heft that brings more "touch" to the rod. Better for casting, better for fishing. I'm not saying his rods are heavy at all, just not overlight. I'd like to try one of Kenneys s glass rods to see if there's any difference.


Top
  
Quote
Re: S Glass vs E glass
Post 04 Sep 2020, 12:22 • #9 
Guide
Joined: 12/20/18
Posts: 204
Location: Yorkshire
Two of my lightest glass rods for their length and line weight are e glass, James green 7'7 3wt and Barclay (thinnest glass blank) 6' 2wt.
So I wouldn't say S glass is necessarily lighter.

My slowest rod that I use a lot is a ********* s glass 7'6 3wt. So I wouldn't say e glass is necessarily slower.

I have s glass and e glass rods and I like and use them all, otherwise I wouldn't hold on to them.
At least in my experience there is definitely not a winner between s and e glass, It just depends on the design.


Top
  
Quote
Re: S Glass vs E glass
Post 04 Sep 2020, 12:48 • #10 
Master Guide
Joined: 04/15/06
Posts: 805
Location: Fayetteville, NC
As I recall, S glass and E glass, in cloth form, are essentially equal weight. Due to its slightly greater “stiffness,” it takes less S glass than E glass for a given taper/length/line weight, making the finished blank lighter (and also more fragile). As others have noted, this isn’t necessarily a plus, depending on what the rod is supposed to accomplish. I’ve had rods of both S and E glass that were superb, and rods of S and E glass that were mediocre to terrible. Since S glass material tends to cost a bit more, there are probably more bad (factory) rods made of E glass, but some of the finest rods I’ve ever cast or owned have in fact been E glass. I currently have three glass fly rods, two of which are E glass, and both rank among the best fly rods I’ve ever owned.


Top
  
Quote
Re: S Glass vs E glass
Post 04 Sep 2020, 14:48 • #11 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19109
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
Stiffness isn't the only issue. If it was, you could make any taper from any material, simply by using less material and thickness.
Strength is one other issue, and requires a minimum amount of material and thickness.
Toughness is the third issue (shock resistance and damage tolerance - all manufactured materials contain flaws, hopefully below critical size).
They make offshore rods in e-glass, because they're virtually indestructible. Those same tapers could be duplicated in a lighter graphite rod, but might break.


Last edited by bulldog1935 on 05 Sep 2020, 06:38, edited 1 time in total.

Top
  
Quote
Re: S Glass vs E glass
Post 04 Sep 2020, 16:00 • #12 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 08/25/08
Posts: 1526
Location: Delton, MI
A good rod designer can make any rod out of any material and make it work. But when making the best, material selection can make the designer’s rod easier which can result in an even better fishing rod possible, and in the case of fiberglass, a more durable rod possible. Just as S-Glass has an advantage for its superior low modulus characteristics and durability over graphite for 8ft rods and under, E-Glass has an advantage over S-Glass for shorter and lower weight rods. They have more material to work with where infinitesimal tolerances aren’t quite as necessary to get the desired outcome. It’s all about balance of materials and design. S-Glass is no more the best material for every rod than graphite is. Don’t fool yourself otherwise.

E-Glass all the way for 7ft rods and under and/or 3wt rods!


Top
  
Quote
Re: S Glass vs E glass
Post 04 Sep 2020, 16:24 • #13 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 03/16/08
Posts: 3543
Location: Upstate-NY
CrustyBugger wrote:
E-Glass all the way for 7ft rods and under and/or 3wt rods!


For a short, light taper you actually *need* a low-modulus material to make it work.
Why?
Because at the tip, a minimum amount of material is required to make a fly rod from fiberglass - no matter the type.
And higher-modulus materials like s-glass and graphites are just TOO strong/stiff/brittle to make that sort of taper work well.
The lower-modulus of e-glass allows better bending at the tip of a very light-line rod.

Once you get more into the "meat" of a taper, then you have design flexibility for wall thickness, cross-section size, etc to play with.
But at/near the tip, of a tubular taper, your ability to alter these aspects is VERY limited.
This is why a LOT of short, light fiberglass rods are para tapers...

Bobha mentioned my 5'9" #3 solid beechwood rod as a surprisingly effective progressive taper.
(its taper is similar to a Everett Garrison philosophy....)
Why? because solid beechwood modulus is even lower than tubular e-glass...


Top
  
Quote
Re: S Glass vs E glass
Post 04 Sep 2020, 17:33 • #14 
Guide
Joined: 01/27/12
Posts: 210
Location: US-PA
I have a 5'-5" T&T Graphite that fishes as nice as the short (under 6') E glass and S Glass I have. Yes, the graphite is stiffer in living room wiggling but put a 3wt on it and look out! I believe the differences have more to do with marketing than anything else.


Top
  
Quote
Re: S Glass vs E glass
Post 04 Sep 2020, 17:50 • #15 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 08/25/08
Posts: 1526
Location: Delton, MI
Because it’s an expensive well designed T&T, I’m sure that 5’5” rod casts great but, watch out! When that sucker breaks, and it will, sooner or later because it its is so thin-walled to cast that way with graphite, it will be nothing but a pocket full of splinters. Been there done that, have seen lots, it’s inevitable, not nearly so much as the equivalent e-glass. Go ahead disagree vehemently but at least promise to PM me when it happens and admit publicly to everybody here when your tears subside.


Top
  
Quote
Re: S Glass vs E glass
Post 04 Sep 2020, 18:44 • #16 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8933
Location: US-ME
The material properties are measurable. They can be marketed as more or less significant in a given rod type. Glass continues to accept a load when it reaches its limit of elasticity, and gives gradual advance warning by its resilience and flex. Graphite breaks at about its elastic limit. In overtasked light-lineweight rods, that's one reason Crusty's prediction may come true. I hope it doesn't, but there are other characteristics of graphite that make it more vulnerable as well--they may be more or less important to any one user and any one rod design.

Other than that, let's keep it to S and E 'glass--also with slightly different measurable properties--and how these to can be/are used to make good fly rods.


Top
  
Quote
Re: S Glass vs E glass
Post 04 Sep 2020, 19:13 • #17 
Master Guide
Joined: 02/04/12
Posts: 710
Location: SE Pa
I don’t know why, but my favorite 7’s are E, my favorite 7’6”s are both E & S and my favorites above that are RX6. That’s just me - no offense meant to people with different experiences & preferences.


Top
  
Quote
Re: S Glass vs E glass
Post 07 Sep 2020, 00:03 • #18 
Sport
Joined: 02/14/18
Posts: 40
Location: Australia, Western Australia
Wow, What a wealth of information. It does make sense to me now. The gradual flexing of the lever to propel the line. Very cool thanks!!


Top
  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  

New Topic Add Reply



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 19 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Google
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group