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Euro Nymph with glass?
Post 05 Jun 2020, 05:33 • #1 
Master Guide
Joined: 04/25/07
Posts: 520
Location: US-PA
I know there are some great longer glass rods McFarland 8’8” 4, 9’2” 5 Livingston 8’ 9” 4 and 5’s, and Larry Kenney made 8’8” 5 that I have that only a few were built but is amazing.
Graphite rods seem to fill this style of nymph fishing, as 9’6”-10’ + length often 2 and 3 weights.
Curious if anyone are using glass in this style ?


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Post 05 Jun 2020, 06:20 • #2 
Guide
Joined: 04/07/18
Posts: 309
Location: Reston VA
Livinston's Y2 rods are lighter and a bit stiffer han oterh fiberglass. His 9' 3wt would be worth a look IMO.

Normal fiberglass has softer tips which slows down hook sets and important factor in that nymphing style..

Heddonist


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Post 05 Jun 2020, 10:22 • #3 
Sport
Joined: 11/16/13
Posts: 29
Location: US-GA
I euro nymph fairly frequently on smaller creeks with 8ft - 8.5ftglass (places where a 10ft graphite rod is impossible.)

I do this on small creeks that I’d normally use a traditional approach with a 7ft glass rod when the water is too high to get a decent drift with dry dropper and nobody is looking higher in the water column.

It’s no problem at all to get a good hook set with a softer tip. You have to train yourself to strip strike instead of raising the rod. With small sharp hooked trout flies you only have to move the fly an inch to set up.

When I think I’m likely to have to resort to euro to get bit, I’ll take 2 reels with me. One has a 20 ft plus euro leader on it and the other a traditional leader. Just in case the fish start looking up again :-)

For euro on bigger water you can’t beat a softer tipped 10ft graphite stick.


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Post 05 Jun 2020, 12:13 • #4 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 11/06/17
Posts: 1640
Location: South of Joplin
I think by definition Euro-nymphing requires a 9' plus graphite rod.
Of course Fay was using 'glass and nymphs out in Ca. back in the '50s and Sawyer "invented" nymphing in England with bamboo before plastic of any kind was even used to make fly rods.


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Post 05 Jun 2020, 12:15 • #5 
Master Guide
Joined: 06/10/13
Posts: 608
Location: US-MO
I got into euro nymphing this winter. It is a ton of fun from leader building, learning to cast the weight of ones rig with a flick of the wrist to picking off trout to tying new patterns. I bought the Orvis Clearwater 10' 3wt. While not the most sensitive rod with the greatest recovery it is more than serviceable and a purpose built tool.

I love my glass from just about 8' down, but spend a whole day high sticking and extending my arm with a long heavy glass rod? No way, ain't gonna do it.


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Post 06 Jun 2020, 10:38 • #6 
Guide
Joined: 04/07/18
Posts: 309
Location: Reston VA
I would add that longer, standard, glass rods -- usually heavy as noted -- are not useful in high sticking -- euro nymphing -- as they reduce the effectiveness of the strip set, Slack in the line combined with the tendency of the soft tip in the longer, upright, rod to dip with the strip movement works against sure, quick, hooking.

Strip sets work best with a low rod position. My ION glass trout spey for example is both way tiring as a high sticker and unreliable as a hook setter in that mode, even with strip sets. But as a low rod position tool in swinging flies, the Ion's soft tip actually keeps me from reflexively taking my flies away from striking fish. And IF I am on my game and wait for the fish to turn, the low rod position strip set works great on a straight line swing as the tip barely comes into play.

Heddonist


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Post 06 Jun 2020, 16:00 • #7 
Sport
Joined: 06/07/15
Posts: 85
Location: US-PA
I'm sure you can tight line nymph with a glass rod but I don't think it is the most efficient method. I think the leader construction and sensitivity of the rod are key factors - sensitivity being more important with heavier weighted flies. with lighter flies it is more a visual indicator than feel so watching the indicator on the line is the key. Surely you can tight line with a shorter 8 - 9' rod but you really limit the area you can cover as opposed to a 10' or longer. Think of how close you'd have to get to fish with a 8.5' rod. Lance Egan did a triangulation calculation of rod length and distance you can fish with euro method - a google search will show that the longer rods allow you to fish a bigger area more effectively.
Also a 10' - 11' glass rod would be unwieldy.
I would look at what the competition guys are doing - if glass was the way to put fish in the net they'd be using it.


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Post 07 Jun 2020, 08:07 • #8 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 09/18/09
Posts: 4794
Location: Washington DC Region
The solution is to "Just say no" to euro nymphing. What do you think you're doing.

To do euro nymphing well you need a long, stiff rod. That's not glass's strong point.


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Post 07 Jun 2020, 11:05 • #9 
Sport
Joined: 10/30/18
Posts: 47
Location: Gateway to Death Valley
I Euro nymphed exclusively for a couple of years with a (wait for it...) A Tenkara rod. Yea I know but it sure was effective at 13' long! Caught some good size trout in fast currents too.

I eventually missed casting a fly line so started using an old Cortalnd glass rod that led me here, but I digress!

I tried a mono rig but that was miserable to cast. Maybe it works on an actual Euro nymph rod but I'm not spending the money to find out.

Anyway if you're curious about Euro nymphing get a Tenkara rod. You can get a decent one for around $100. They're easy to carry with you and whip out when your get the urge to drag nymphs, hah!


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Post 07 Jun 2020, 21:55 • #10 
Master Guide
Joined: 12/31/15
Posts: 693
Location: Three Forks of the Flathead
The action is very different between tenkara rods and Euro-nymphing rods. I can't really imagine my attempting to use a tenkara rod for those purposes. The length is really nice, but the taper is all wrong.


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Post 08 Jun 2020, 07:10 • #11 
Master Guide
Joined: 06/24/11
Posts: 919
Location: Belgium
By using a Tenkara rod to "Euronymph" you are proving that by adapting technique just about anything is possible. A light, stiff, sensitive carbon rod does seem to be the way to go. It's just logical.

Musashi, the great samurai is said to have overcome an opponent in a duel using only a bamboo practice sword. With enough skill the realm of the possible expands.

I would look at a CTS 9' 4WT blank and have it customised with more butt and less tip. I would have it built with a short downlocking cap and ring seat to maximise effective fishing length. If anything it will make a great soft hackle fly rod.


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Post 08 Jun 2020, 09:55 • #12 
Sport
Joined: 10/30/18
Posts: 47
Location: Gateway to Death Valley
GlacierRambler wrote:
The action is very different between tenkara rods and Euro-nymphing rods. I can't really imagine my attempting to use a tenkara rod for those purposes. The length is really nice, but the taper is all wrong.


Tenkara rods come in different actions just like other rods. I have a TenkaraBum rod that was specifically designed to fish weighted nymphs. It has a sensitive tip but strong in the butt section.

Keiryu rods are even stronger collapsible rods.


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Post 08 Jun 2020, 19:52 • #13 
Master Guide
Joined: 12/31/15
Posts: 693
Location: Three Forks of the Flathead
I was thinking of Keiryu rods when I posted this. I fished a Daiwa Kiyose 43MF, and I think it would be a poor choice for Euro-nymphing. It flexes much more deeply into the blank than all the Euro rods I'm aware of, and it didn't handle the tungsten weighted nymphs that I usually very well. I found the accuracy was poor in comparison.


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Post 09 Jun 2020, 08:25 • #14 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/09/05
Posts: 2095
Location: US-CO
Spec wrote:
I Euro nymphed exclusively for a couple of years with a (wait for it...) A Tenkara rod. Yea I know but it sure was effective at 13' long! Caught some good size trout in fast currents too.

I eventually missed casting a fly line so started using an old Cortalnd glass rod that led me here, but I digress!

I tried a mono rig but that was miserable to cast. Maybe it works on an actual Euro nymph rod but I'm not spending the money to find out.

Anyway if you're curious about Euro nymphing get a Tenkara rod. You can get a decent one for around $100. They're easy to carry with you and whip out when your get the urge to drag nymphs, hah!


I have found that my tenkara rod brings the most hookups for me when fishing this way. However, when Euro-Nymping in the local Gold Medal water, I have failed to land several fish (>16”) that are just too powerful and whose runs snap the tippet of a fixed-length tenkara line.

So...I found a 12’ graphite rod from China that has a reel seat. Can’t fish it all day because it is a bit heavy, even as a graphite rod. But, it brings the reach needed for tenkara style fishing with a reel which can let a big fish run when needed.

This is, however, my least favorite fly fishing. But, when the fish are deep and sluggish during the winter, I can frequently bring one to net. But...give me summer small-stream fishing, on top, with a shorter glass rod any day!


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Post 10 Jun 2020, 20:36 • #15 
Master Guide
Joined: 03/28/07
Posts: 870
Location: US-TX
I do some dropshot nymphing with an 8’ 5wt glass rod. It’s like a dumbed down version of euro nymphing. It seems to be more tolerant of shorter rods and a bit more slack in the line.


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Post 13 Jun 2020, 13:46 • #16 
Master Guide
Joined: 05/08/06
Posts: 720
Location: RenoNV/FranklinWV
I catch a lot of fish using a fixed line Keiryu rod using size 8 to 12 Girdle bugs, in fact I put my fly rod down at the side of the stream and extend the Fixed line rod for these riffles, runs and buckets. Accuracy is great and just as good as any other rod., it's the Indian not the arrow. In fact I almost always carry a fixed line rod along with my fly rod. On smaller water in deep little holes I use a Tenkara rod with tungsten bead head flies, works great too.
So on really small water use a shorter rod on a tight line and you should do great, set it up with a mono leader, forget the fly line, if you don't like it try something else.


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Post 13 Jun 2020, 19:21 • #17 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 09/18/09
Posts: 4794
Location: Washington DC Region
rsagebrush,

What size fixed line rods do you carry? and how long a line (level flouro?) do you use? It's an interesting concept and it is easy enough to carry.


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Post 13 Jun 2020, 20:35 • #18 
Sport
Joined: 10/30/18
Posts: 47
Location: Gateway to Death Valley
carlz wrote:
rsagebrush,

What size fixed line rods do you carry? and how long a line (level flouro?) do you use? It's an interesting concept and it is easy enough to carry.


Fish the longest rod you can. I've got a 13' (400cm) rod. Inside it seems way too long but on the stream the length is great. Collapsed its about 20".

The longer the rod the farther away you can fish with the line off the water. You can hold the rod over currents and fish the other side without fighting drag.

I use level fluocarbon the length of the rod. Tippet length to the depth of the water or a bit more.


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Post 13 Jun 2020, 22:04 • #19 
Master Guide
Joined: 05/08/06
Posts: 720
Location: RenoNV/FranklinWV
Carlz; Shimano Kozuka (390,360,330,270)this model has interchangeable sections, Suntech Fieldmaster Keiryu Special, Daiwa Enshou 39 (technically a Tenkara rod but for big fish). None of them are currently made any longer I believe. Line is a bit shorter than the rod with tippet ring, leader 3-5 feet depending on water depth, all the above handle 3 or 4x tippets well and I have never broken a section yet.
I like the Daiwa Kiyose, it does have a lighter tip but a strong butt and will handle really large fish.
The Fieldmaster is a three way zoom and has handled some pretty stout fish, the Kozuka is stronger and faster but a fixed length, The Daiwa is probably the best tailwater rod along with the 44 (a bit of a handful that one).
I don't think any of them are made any longer though.


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Post 14 Jun 2020, 11:37 • #20 
Sport
Joined: 02/18/19
Posts: 90
Location: US-ID
Carl,
If you are interested in this topic and want to get the best source, in my opinion, is to go to tenkarabum.com
He has a suntech made rod call the tenkarabum that in 36 or 40 that would be hard to beat (if this is really something you wanted to do and spend $ on).
https://www.tenkarabum.com/suntech-tenkarabum-36.html

The site has a lot of great information too on how to euronymph with fixed line rods.
https://www.tenkarabum.com/american-ten ... iques.html
http://www.tenkaratimes.com/tenkara-tut ... ph-hybrids


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Post 14 Jun 2020, 11:53 • #21 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 09/18/09
Posts: 4794
Location: Washington DC Region
I have a NISSIN ZX450 2way which seems like overkill for small stream fishing, but I've never shortened the line down to under a rod length. I also have a 3m very light weight (dry fly of very small nymph) rod that is good for tight spaces.

having a 3-way would probably be even more useful in these situations. I guess I will have to try it out.

And recommendations for any one starting out. Buy an extra tip with the rod. Until you get used to it, getting the line on the lillian is filled with dangers. :)


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Post 15 Jun 2020, 08:23 • #22 
Master Guide
Joined: 05/08/06
Posts: 720
Location: RenoNV/FranklinWV
Carl, The tip is only dangerous the first time, after that you're more careful, I've broken 2 tips in 11 years by being careless, and one other for some reason unknown to me. Three ways are handy and I cut the line usually to fit the middle extension, I have had 2 other rods break in another section, most likely a defect. So purchasing and xtra tip section is rather a good idea, actually the first three sections are the ones most likely to break.
Of note I've never broken a section on any of the rods I listed, the light seiryu's are rather delicate though.


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Post 07 Jul 2020, 11:15 • #23 
New Member
Joined: 06/14/20
Posts: 5
Ive tight lined w glass for years, works just fine. Mike


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Post 08 Jul 2020, 09:36 • #24 
Guide
Joined: 04/03/19
Posts: 202
Location: CO
Euro nymphing almost by definition requires at least a 10’ rod typically somewhere around a 3 or 4 weight. The length requirement even more pronounced if you use French or Spanish styles that rely on extremely long leaders.

As someone else mentioned, the taper for this rod would be difficult to match with glass. It would also be one heavy rod! For perspective, I use one of my heaviest trout reels (the Ross Colorado 2) on my 10’ 3 weight Euro nymph rod to balance it. Usually I use this reel on my Orvis SFG 764 or my Flea (short length rods) to get good balance. The weight of such an outfit in glass would be prohibitive. At that point you likely need to put something like a Spey reel on to achieve proper balance.

On the other hand, tight-line nymphing (a similar technique practiced quite a bit here out west) can be done on rods of any length, but longer is better (hence all the 9’ 5 weights I see).


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Post 08 Jul 2020, 10:05 • #25 
Guide
Joined: 04/07/18
Posts: 309
Location: Reston VA
The overall taper is important and especially so in the design of the tip in Euro nymphing rods. The most desired of them are very fine, sensitive,and ltwt state of the art graphite to convey the soft take of a trout and the "feel' of the weighted nymph ticking the bottom down into slim cork grips. And theu must be durable enough to manage the odd big fish. At least one such rod -- the ECHO Shadow X -- even comes with two tips, much like bamboo rods.

AFAIK even advanced glass -- while very durable, does just not lend itself to this application in terms of tip diameter and sensitivity.

Heddonist


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