It is currently 19 Apr 2024, 23:10


Previous  1, 2 New Topic Add Reply
Author Message
Post 14 Oct 2008, 00:10 • #26 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/05/06
Posts: 2098
Location: US-PA

I think the light line thing is combination of technology & marketing. They can do it so they do. Let's face it; fish haven't got a whole lot smarter in 40 years despite how many times we use "selective trout" as an excuse for getting skunked. If my grandpappy could catch them on a 7wt you can too. Remember the Orvis All Rounder? It's just that many of us have been brainwashed by the pencil lead gang and their marketers into believing we need these light line outfits for "technical fishing" what ever the heck that is.

Fishing is when I'm catching fish so I guess Technical Fishing is when I'm getting my butt kicked?

In the case of glass I think the glass rod makers also have adjusted to the wider market and offer light line outfits for the Super Selective Mensa Genus strain of trout that mutated directly from the Dufis Wet Fly Chasing strain immediately after "The Movie" was released.

Light lines and their relation to a delicate presentation has been WAY overstated IMHO. I fish Letort Spring Run regularly; a stream known for its finicky trout and I never fish anything lighter than a 5wt and fished nothing but a six weight for over 20 years. I chose those line weights because I can go from a midge to a weighted Sculpin pattern in heartbeat. I also was somewhat affected by a local famous angler who was my fly fishing hero who told me he used the same weight outfits there. I guess he knew his stuff because I have no trouble with my "heavy" line outfits there.

I do like to fish a long leader which helps; but even so, if you are casting over spooky fish; one or two line weights doesn't make ANY difference; the fish will bolt regardless. Case in point: I was fishing a BAITCASTER the other day in super clear water and fish were flipping out as my Senko sailed overhead tied to 17lb test Fluoro. They saw it BEFORE it even hit the water. What heck chance would you have with a -0000000 weight fly rod in those conditions?

I choose my line weights solely based on the wind and what rod length that will work best under the conditions I expect to encounter. If it's breezy and I plan to fish size 22-32 flies I grab a 4, 5 or 6 weight; if it isn't windy and I plan to fish size 22-32 flies I may grab a 3wt if I have one in the proper length. I could give a rat's arse what size line I choose for dinky flies; that's because it doesn't matter. I can fish a light tippet on any rod. I often wonder where this delicate flies; light lines thing came from. I fish Tricos almost every day and use everything from a 2wt to a 5wt depending on my mood and the results are exactly the same; I catch fish.

Getting back to glass; I admit I do own a few 3wt glass rods but there is a couple of reasons I chose those rods and line weights. In the case of two Retros I own, it was because that was the only line weight in that length available. Why Winston chose those line weights I don't know but I suspect it was because both rods are shorter and the impression today is short means light. In the case of my other 3wt glass rods which were custom built; it was because of the length & weight of the rods and the reels I chose to mate with them for balance.

The shortest and lightest rod in my quiver before glass & graphite was a 6'6" 4wt Orvis bamboo Flea. That rod balances well with several reels that easily hold a 4wt DT; my preferred taper. When I got into glass I started with a 7'0" 4wt which was fine with the same reels but soon I started with shorter glass rods from 5'0" to 6'0" and I wanted a smaller and lighter reel to balance better with their lighter weight. That forced me into 3wt territory because of reel capacity. Yea I know I could have said screw the balance thing and used a larger reel, cut my DT's in half or went with WF's but I didn't want to do that. Even though wind can be a factor with light lines; I use these short rods exclusively on small waters which in my case are usually rugged wooded streams where the wind is hardly a factor even on breezy days.

So I guess there is at least ONE good reason in my world to fish lighter than a 4wt.

Speaking of wind, sorry for the long post!


Image


Top
  
Quote
Post 14 Oct 2008, 01:19 • #27 
Master Guide
Joined: 09/29/08
Posts: 435
Location: US-NJ
I'm also in the heavier line camp. I think they give you more "feel", which relates to more line control in the end. Line control is the game in my mind.

I fish in the East all year and am generally a 5/6 kind of guy. I love my 7 1/2' 4wt if I am just dry fly fishing in benign conditions, but the extra weight helps if the wind comes up, you put on a streamer, you need to punch a cast under a bush, etc. In ponds I go to an 8 wt because it helps get the line out easier. This summer I was fishing next to a great fisherman with a 3 wt while I was fishing an 8 wt at a local pond with huge rainbows. Even though I had the heavier outfit, it was more relaxing to get the flies out to where the fish were. Much of the soft landing is the cast.

The heavier lines can feel light to cast - do a nice backcast and then let the rod do the work. I see too many people whipping the rods like a spinning rod. If you do that a light line will feel a lot lighter. But if you go with the flow the "heavier" lines are relaxing to cast.


Top
  
Quote
Post 14 Oct 2008, 01:33 • #28 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 03/16/08
Posts: 3543
Location: Upstate-NY
Bamboozle wrote:

In the case of glass I think the glass rod makers also have adjusted to the wider market and offer light line outfits for the Super Selective Mensa Genus strain of trout that mutated directly from the Dufis Wet Fly Chasing strain immediately after "The Movie" was released.

Did they not swing wets in that film?
(the historically accurate style of fly fishing for the period: late-1800's, right?)

I can't remember.
It's been so long ...


Top
  
Quote
Post 14 Oct 2008, 02:48 • #29 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/05/06
Posts: 2098
Location: US-PA
Corlay:

I guess my attempt at wit got screwed up in the translation. I meant that the fish got brighter AFTER "The Movie" was released in 1992 and more people jumped in the sport and subsequently sought to blame the fish for their lack of success.

I guess I should stick to fishin' and leave the comedy writing alone.

Image


Top
  
Quote
Post 14 Oct 2008, 03:05 • #30 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19104
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
Gary Borger said there is no such thing as a smart fish. A carp is the smartest, with an IQ of 12. Trout have an IQ of about 3.
Big fish are not smart, they are cowards - that's how they got big.


Top
  
Quote
Post 14 Oct 2008, 06:21 • #31 
Administrator
Joined: 01/10/06
Posts: 7823
Location: Holly Springs, NC

If the fish were smarter, it wouldn't be safe to get near the water! It would take glow off a day astream if I had to be on the lookout for ambushes, traps, and IEDs.

A golf ball has an IQ of 0 and no instincts. Look at the mess those little pests can cause!

Tom



Top
  
Quote
Post 14 Oct 2008, 10:32 • #32 
Guide
Joined: 06/22/05
Posts: 185
For times when I think a delicate presentation is required, its great to put a DT6wt Silk line on the rod in any length. The way they float and pick up off the water is probably softer than any 3wt made. If you look at the diameter of the two lines the silk is way smaller by comparison. They cut the wind better than any plastic taper ever developed in any line weight.

I own an old Marvin Hedge WF7 Silk that has the longest finest taper of any line I have compared. I occasionally use it on 3/4wt rods as it takes about 20' of this line to get to the 120 grain standard of 30' of 4wt. Works for me and I feel like I have a whole new series of rods when using it.

Marshall


Top
  
Quote
Post 07 Nov 2008, 12:17 • #33 
Guide
Joined: 11/05/07
Posts: 309
I get a little worried when glass rods are described as crisp and light and quick. Sounds like too much borrowed from graphite. It was a long time till graphite came with good really light line rods. Orvis had a few. The current Sage TXL rods are fine as were the SPL rods. A couple of the Loomis IMX rods were good in 3 and lighter. Current Lamiglas honey rods seem to me to work pretty well with light lines. I've sold probably a hundred of them in the last few years and most folks have given me good feedback. They have all come to them from graphite and all remark at the initial softness, yet then begin to talk about accuracy, easy loading in tight places, nice protection of light terminal tackle, all the things you take for granted when you use good glass.

This was the first summer I used a glass rod in preference to my nice soft IM6 7'9" 3 wt graphite. I spent the whole summer in all my small stream situations with the two piece Honey 7'6" 3 wt. It is a little more powerful than the three piece so I used it with a 4 wt and found it able to handle all sizes of flies and all situations but for intense winds. Fish handling was never a negative consideration. I could have used a shorter rod. I had eveything from 6' on up with me, but the 7'6" was more than satisfactory all around.

The reservations I have about the new interest in glass is that the majors will come with glass copies of their graphite rods and abandon real glass like the Lamiglas offerings. It would be tough to compete with Sage marketing if they aimed at a line of glass rods. I don't see it coming, but wouldn't be surprised if it did. I see Hardy is coming with something of import origin. It will be interesting to see what it is and how it sells.

My main angle on all this is that I don't want a glass rod that is a copy of any of a thousand readily available graphite rods. Seems pointless and surely would muddy the glass waters for at least the short term.


Top
  
Quote
Post 07 Nov 2008, 15:15 • #34 
Master Guide
Joined: 02/19/08
Posts: 706
Location: US-AK
Dave-

I don't have any of the Honey blanks, but I do have one of the Spring Creek 7'6" four weights that I like to fish. I also have an older 7 weight S-Glass made by Lamiglas. It's got a very strange action to me, but I enjoy the rod and it surprises me how far I can cast it.

Beside the Lamiglas Honeys, are there other fiberglass rods made by current rodmakers that you would classify as "real glass"?


Top
  
Quote
Post 13 Nov 2008, 01:26 • #35 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19104
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
what makes this rod different from graphite?

Well, it's a lot heavier.


Top
  
Quote
Post 13 Nov 2008, 04:04 • #36 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 09/05/07
Posts: 2154
Location: West Virginia
I don't have much more to contribute, but this certainly has been a great thread. But to add my 2 cents, as to why the move to one, two, and three weight rods, I think it's due to the same business motivation that's responsible for the change in necktie width and hemline length. It stimulates sales and expands the product line, producing a rod that you never knew you wanted. (I think there are at least 14 line weights now.) It also probably has something to do with why I had all of those Nikon F lenses. I could have backed up or walked closer, but they were such neat toys.

I used to happily fish a seven weight almost everywhere, but for whatever reason went to a five and then to the wonderful Scott G904 and then back to fiberglass and then of course descended into fly rod madness after finding this forum. Lately I've tended to lean towards more traditional line weights, and given my propensity for tradition (and an inexplicable need to be a little different), I have no doubt that I'll make that last cast into eternity with a silk-lined 8 1/2' 6WT Granger when the rest of the world has gone to 00WT 4' generation five kriptoboronite.


Last edited by Duff on 13 Nov 2008, 07:42, edited 1 time in total.

Top
  
Quote
Post 06 Dec 2008, 11:19 • #37 
Master Guide
Joined: 06/27/06
Posts: 774
Location: SW Missouri Ozark Plateau
After flinging flies for 50, I still feel that the 5 or 6 weight flyrod is the MOST versatile, all around flyline weight for fresh water trout and panfish. I enjoy using a 4 weight on occasion, and sometimes go to a 7 or 8 weight for bass and saltwater. But for all around, go anywhere, fish anywhere, any type of fresh water with any size fly, I feel the 5 and 6 are by far more useful than the super light rods. They also have the butt strength to handle a really big fish. I have some friends who use 4 weight rods here in south Florida for saltwater fishing, and I admit a 24 inch snook on a 4 or 5 weight will make your hair stand on end and can be landed just fine ... as long as you have plenty of backing. But when I travel upcountry to Arkansas every summer, I usually pack just two rods ... a 7.5 foot 5 weight, and an 8 footer for 6 weight. I have not found any situation where I was not well rodded, so to speak.


Top
  
Quote
Post 06 Dec 2008, 15:49 • #38 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/08/05
Posts: 3570
Location: Western PA
Now that I've gone through a lot of rods and reels, I'm slowing up to reflect upon and FISH what I still have. I'm weened down to 13 "keepers"! I'm proud! I'm like the guy at AA that went a year dry proud! I don't want to make light of or diminish the feat of going sober (much tougher/kudos if you've done it). There's some similarities though.
Can't argue with Wb4tjh about the versatility of 5/6wt. rods. I don't fish them, unless the water demands it. I'm in PA fishing for trout 100% of the time out. I find my glass 4wts. are plenty of fun and more than capable for most of my winter/spring time fishing.come summer, I can't wait to break out the 2/3 wts. Fishing light rods on summer & fall time water for trout feeding on terrestrials, midges, tricos, olives and micro caddis is what I like best of all! Hey, I could fish tricos with a 5wt ... BUT WHY? Now Sage has made me contradict myself. I'm glad the manufacturers came out with 2/3wts., but can't help wonder what you'd need a 00wt. for. Image


Last edited by Anonymous on 06 Dec 2008, 16:09, edited 1 time in total.

Top
  
Quote
Post 07 Dec 2008, 09:08 • #39 
Guide
Joined: 01/12/08
Posts: 342
Location: Penn's Woods
corlay wrote:
Why would one select a rod in these lighter lines?
Fishing with tiny midges and such in the #20-#22 range, I would suspect.

But I guess my real question is:
What are the perceived advantages of fishing these lighter lines?

Like scud dog, my favorite fly fishing is to the difficult trout of summer and fall. At that time, most of the major big aquatic hatches are over and what's left is usually micro-sized (#20-28) baetis, cloen, trico, ants, etc. Many times I'm faced with tough situations: low water, nervous trout, one hour stalks, one cast fish. A 3wt allows me to cope with these situations a little better than the 4/5. Errant casts splash down a little quiter; presentations are more delicate; less line mass is moved during the hookset resulting in fewer popoffs with 7x tippet.


Top
  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  

Previous  1, 2 New Topic Add Reply



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Google
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group