It is currently 29 Mar 2024, 07:43


1, 2  Next New Topic Add Reply
Author Message
Post 12 Aug 2019, 12:58 • #1 
Master Guide
Joined: 06/07/12
Posts: 865
Location: US-CA
Hi! I’m interested in thoughts regarding how far is too far for glass. I have a ********* Western Glass 8’9” 5wt. It’s about a foot longer than many / most glass 5 wts. The extra reach is great. It is a bit forward-biased in weight, but I have it balanced nicely with a fairly big reel.

I’m wondering how far glass can be pushed. I’m guessing a 10’ 2wt Euronymph rig might be a bridge too far. Where do the experts on the board think the limits lie?

Thanks


Last edited by motosacto on 12 Aug 2019, 21:40, edited 1 time in total.

Top
  
Quote
Post 12 Aug 2019, 14:13 • #2 
Sport
Joined: 07/16/19
Posts: 61
Location: US-UT
Do you mean 9'5"?


Top
  
Quote
Post 12 Aug 2019, 16:44 • #3 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 05/19/14
Posts: 3925
Location: USA - Illinois
8'9" most likely


Top
  
Quote
Post 12 Aug 2019, 21:41 • #4 
Master Guide
Joined: 06/07/12
Posts: 865
Location: US-CA
ApostateTapir wrote:
Do you mean 9'5"?


Gak. Typo corrected. 8’9” it is...


Top
  
Quote
Post 12 Aug 2019, 22:07 • #5 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 05/19/14
Posts: 3925
Location: USA - Illinois
I have one of Dusty's 8'9" graphite 4 weights - sorry not glass, but man it is a great rod! Medium fast, but not overly on the fast side for sure, at least to me. End of highjacking.


Top
  
Quote
Post 13 Aug 2019, 00:48 • #6 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 11/06/17
Posts: 2498
Location: South of Joplin
I think any thing over 9' is getting into tenkara country, boat rods maybe, but I'd hate to try getting to brushy stream with one. Fenwick did make an 8'6" 5wt back when 7wts ruled, they may not have sold many of them though as I have never seen one come up on the auction.


Top
  
Quote
Post 13 Aug 2019, 08:23 • #7 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19078
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
The photo below is just about a perfect rod in light-line e-glass,
I like my 8-1/2' Izch S-glass for the line cannon niche it fills, both the weight and taper are comparable to other salt rods (RPLX), but more pleasant and less fatiguing to shoot line.

I've also never met a cane rod over 8-1/2' that I liked, though that length in 4/5-wt cane completely fills my trout fishing niche. tailwater and western.
I'm guessing there are 8-1/2' S-glass rods that fit right in there perfectly, just never had a reason to pursue them - rounded out my favorite cane rods there long before.

My favorite 9' rods, light line, medium line, salty line, are always Fisher graphite II, and it's almost certainly because of the progressive taper Joe Fisher designed into every rod - kind of the same idea as Phillipson glass, only longer. You probably won't find them noticeably lighter than S-glass, because Fisher never trusted graphite, and always over-built his tapers (conveyed to me by a mutual friend, who was great friends with JKF, based a lifetime business on selling Many of his rod blanks, but never actually liked them). Fisher also never worked past graphite II, except to blend and achieve the modulus he wanted to work.

Image


Top
  
Quote
Post 13 Aug 2019, 09:51 • #8 
Master Guide
Joined: 04/07/18
Posts: 382
Location: Reston VA
Does my Echo 10'8" 4wt trout spey glass rod count in this discussion?

Heddonist


Top
  
Quote
Post 13 Aug 2019, 10:10 • #9 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19078
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
sounds like it exactly fits the discussion


Top
  
Quote
Post 13 Aug 2019, 11:30 • #10 
Sport
Joined: 07/16/19
Posts: 61
Location: US-UT
I have an 8' 5wt Shadowcast blank that I'm yet to build. I would think anything longer would need a med - med/fast action because the tip is quite whippy on the Shadowcast.


Last edited by ApostateTapir on 13 Aug 2019, 16:27, edited 1 time in total.

Top
  
Quote
Post 13 Aug 2019, 14:39 • #11 
Guide
Joined: 02/06/16
Posts: 328
Location: US
Now that I have started to play around with Dusty's 8'6" Western Glass series, I'm not so sure that nice light line rods are solely confined to a short rod. Just as long as they don't take on a faster is better design philosophy, I say keep em coming!


Top
  
Quote
Post 13 Aug 2019, 15:13 • #12 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 11/06/17
Posts: 2498
Location: South of Joplin
Tools kinda need to fit the user - 1.5 times the height of the user is about maximum for efficient use of a casting rod regardless MOC, imo. The advantage gained past that by having a longer lever are off set by diminishing control and agility. A man 8' tall might be quite comfortable with a 12' rod. I think the material has possibilities that have never been explored because of the limits of practicality as seen by rod designers. If 90% of 'glass fly rod users want rods <8', why bother designing one 12'? Just as with today's desire for no weight lines has most of the new glass rods being produced in ultralight line sizes- build what sells.
There is also the fact the lever works both ways a hundred grains in the hand exerts much less strain on the muscles and joints than a hundred grains on the end of a 10' or longer lever. And with that in mind thee lighter weights possible in carbon make use of 'glass impractical from a marketing standpoint.
If I think about the mechanics of casting a fly line, I don't think the line plays much of a part until all the leader and about a rod and a half of line are out, or at least a rods length of line, so that at 9' foot rod length the cast really begins somewhere around 25-30' (9' leader+ 9-14' line+ 9' rod)- that's about as far as the fish are away in most places, so even at that rod length we are compensating by over lining and using weight forward lines, longer rods just mean greater compensating.
My ideal length 'glass rod is 7'3"-8'3" & 6-8wt., ideal in carbon is 7'9"-9' & 5/6 wt.


Top
  
Quote
Post 13 Aug 2019, 18:51 • #13 
Guide
Joined: 04/03/19
Posts: 221
Location: CO
My Echo Glass Spey comes in at 12’9”, but that’s obviously not an all-rounder. ;)

I feel that 9’ is pushing it for an efficient one-hander. Weight begins to become a factor. Not just the rod, but also the heavier reel is needed to balance it, leading to an overall heavier rig; think of the reel size that would be needed to balance everything out! Graphite seems to be more practical in this arena.

That said, I’m a layperson when it comes to rod building, so I’m likely wrong. A 10’ glass rod would be interesting!


Top
  
Quote
Post 14 Aug 2019, 14:53 • #14 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/10/09
Posts: 1651
Location: US-OH
The limit for long (8'6" or longer) and light line weight in a single handed glass rod is going to vary for everyone. And being specific about what light line weight means is critical too. To me it means 3wt or below but I might be convinced to include 4wt too. Personally, for glass, 8' is my limit for 4wt and 7'6" is my limit for 3wt. Beyond those lengths glass just becomes too slow, loops open up, swing weight increases. If you don't mind those characteristics, fine. Certain modern glass models may try to address these things, but IMO, long, light graphite or boron rods are superior in every way except durability. I'm not talking about broomsticks - there are many moderate action long, light graphite or boron rods that are a pleasure to fish - they flex deeply, protect tippets, generate better line speeds so are better in wind, are light in hand and less tiring to fish all day. Can long, light glass rods be made? Yes. Are some already being produced? Yes. But unless you're a dyed-in-the-wool glass fan who won't use anything but glass, IMO, there are better choices. For me anyway :) For a good many fly fishers, this whole question is moot because they don't believe in fishing anything lighter than a 5wt rod under any circumstances.


Top
  
Quote
Post 14 Aug 2019, 15:00 • #15 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 11/25/09
Posts: 2319
Thought I would jump in since longer glass rods are my best sellers, not to mention it's what I mostly fish. I like the 8'9" length for a limit (not saying it should be the limit), I initially started with some 9' rods and found that lessening the length got rid of any tip wobble and smoothed them out.


Top
  
Quote
Post 14 Aug 2019, 21:48 • #16 
Guide
Joined: 02/22/16
Posts: 307
Location: Livingston MT
Interesting discussion. I don't typically have a use for longer rods but in certain circumstances they are invaluable. My 9'2" 5wt. McFarland S-Glass rod works wonders for me on the local spring creeks. I typically will fish on my knees and the longer length gets my line a little higher on the backcast, just enough to keep the line out of the bushes. I use an Orvis III reel with a 406 DT line and the balance is fine.

Tom


Top
  
Quote
Post 14 Aug 2019, 23:56 • #17 
Master Guide
Joined: 12/29/11
Posts: 510
Location: US-CA
Winston made a 9'3" 5 wt. in the SF days. A very good caster, as were almost all SF glass Winstons, and a very useful fishing tool on bigger waters. Don't know if that's the limit with newer glass material.

10' 2 wts. are for graphite and the Hardy Greys 10' 2 wt. Streamflex (now discontinued) was not only a good Euro nymphing rod, but also a terrific caster with 2 or 3 wt lines and dry flies.


Top
  
Quote
Post 15 Aug 2019, 06:26 • #18 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19078
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
If the taper can be duplicated in a lighter MOC, using a heavier MOC is merely obstinate.
You pick a heavier rod when what you gain because of the heavier rod is worth the added weight.
Especially in S-glass, you can probably get a dry-fly tip in a longer rod, that graphite may not be able to duplicate, without the graphite tip being too fragile.
And we all know all rods are not created equal, because rod tapers are not created equal.


Top
  
Quote
Post 19 Aug 2019, 14:25 • #19 
Master Guide
Joined: 07/27/18
Posts: 375
Location: Probably at a Diner in Eastern PA
I have an 8'6" Steffen 5/6 and I honestly think going longer than that would be a challenge, given the diameter of the butt section needed (if you are talking glass only and not some sort of composite). If you are talking euronymph or switch/spey, then I also imagine that the extra weight would be exaggerated (particularly for high sticking).
It's the right tool for the right job problem: you could make one, but why would you?


Top
  
Quote
Post 19 Aug 2019, 14:39 • #20 
Master Guide
Joined: 04/07/18
Posts: 382
Location: Reston VA
The Echo glass trout spey is far from ideal for high sticking nymphs if only due to the soft tip which slows down the terminal response in hook sets.

It works fine for 'swinging' --down and across -- wet fly and steamer work as you can hardly take a fly away from a striking fish. They have lots of time to turn and hook themselves.

Even then, many guys with only graphite rod experience tend to have trouble slowing down their casting strokes and mastering the 'soft' feel of the glass trout spey rod. That may be why Echo dropped it.

Heddonist


Top
  
Quote
Post 19 Aug 2019, 15:42 • #21 
Master Guide
Joined: 04/27/09
Posts: 573
Location: US-SD
16pmd wrote:
Winston made a 9'3" 5 wt. in the SF days. A very good caster, as were almost all SF glass Winstons, and a very useful fishing tool on bigger waters. Don't know if that's the limit with newer glass material.

10' 2 wts. are for graphite and the Hardy Greys 10' 2 wt. Streamflex (now discontinued) was not only a good Euro nymphing rod, but also a terrific caster with 2 or 3 wt lines and dry flies.

I have a fiberglass SF era 9' 6 weight Winston, and another member here whose name I have forgotten has one of the 9' 3" 5 weights. I know my Winston rod is excellent for general use and fine for big waters. It is a pleasure to cast. (I will mention too a rod I built on a Fisher blank which has the same length and micrometer dimensions as the Winston rod, and which also is a fine general-purpose rod. But this Fisher rod has a definite faster action than the early Winston rod, and is rated in its numbering as a 6/7 weight while the Winston is a 6 weight which can also handle a 5 weight line. I wonder if the earlier Winston rods were maybe built on blanks which were not by Fisher?)


Last edited by Golfswithwolves on 22 Aug 2019, 17:21, edited 1 time in total.

Top
  
Quote
Post 19 Aug 2019, 16:31 • #22 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8920
Location: US-ME
About 8 1/2, 4 weight, to 9', 5 or 6 weight, same as ever, the material properties of E and S glass not having changed. Dusty's model is a fine example, and he gave a great explanation why. After that, longer and longer means sloppier and sloppier to be a "light" line rod or a short, light-line tip on a stiff stout pole. For continuity of action, medium or slow, 8 1/2 to 9' is about it. A longer glass rod will be cumbersome and accept a load much heavier than a low-rated line weight. It will cast a light line just fine, but that doesn't make it a light-line rod. Or it will be a willowy specialty action.

The longer-lighter niche past about 9' was developed and occupied by graphite because it is, well, stiffer and lighter. S-glass offered some promise of longer-lighter glass development although I can't think of a good example from the time.

In the 1970s, only a few tried to produce long-light, and fewer very successfully. The Winston model, as mentioned, listed on into the late 1970s in their catalog. Another, Fisher-made blank:

Image

Image

Image


Top
  
Quote
Post 19 Aug 2019, 17:19 • #23 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 02/12/16
Posts: 4094
Location: USA-CO
Quote:
Even then, many guys with only graphite rod experience tend to have trouble slowing down their casting strokes and mastering the 'soft' feel of the glass trout spey rod.


That's right, Heddonist, and not just with spey rods. I recently watched a casting instructor put an S-curve in my Diamondback Glass 804-3, trying to apply his quick, powerful Sage graphite stroke to it. I hadn't thought a rod would do that, but I guess it can.


Top
  
Quote
Post 20 Aug 2019, 09:15 • #24 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 19078
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
It kind of creates a market in snappy cane rods. My friend Mick handed me a brand new 7'4" $2500 very pretty tomato stake with a very graphite-feeling tip one day. (hey, I was nice)
He has that type A determination of wanting to tell a rod what to do, and when to do it, and of course he knows what to do with it.
I handed him an 8' Heddon 1-3/4f, he couldn't stop giggling, and bought it from me (as swoopy wet-fly tapers goes, this is one of the most powerful everything rods ever made, 4-wt dries, 5-wt big streamers).


Top
  
Quote
Post 22 Aug 2019, 10:00 • #25 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8920
Location: US-ME
This discussion and several others, just brought up on a Phillipson/Orvis favorite 9 footer, is a fun review of the topic. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12197


Top
  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  

1, 2  Next New Topic Add Reply



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 20 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Google
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group