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What am I doing wrong
Post 02 May 2019, 08:02 • #1 
Glass Fanatic
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Location: US-NM
When casting under low hanging bush side arm one of my rods gives me a little trouble with the leeder and fly rising a foot or two above my fly line ......Thanks Aurelio


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Post 02 May 2019, 08:44 • #2 
Master Guide
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Location: Probably at a Diner in Eastern PA
sounds like you are driving your side arm down laterally. This can lead to the leader tailing up as it unfolds.
I am assuming that the rise in the fly and the leader is occurring as the loop unfurls as opposed to the leader fully straight being above the fly line.
try leveling the side arm more perpendicular to the water. if you are trying this for distances greater than 30 feet, good luck :lol

also try the same cast in an open space. It's easier to correct when you have space to correct it.


Last edited by EinPA on 03 May 2019, 16:41, edited 1 time in total.

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Post 02 May 2019, 09:48 • #3 
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Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
the width of the loop in your line will always follow the height difference drawn by your rod tip during forward cast.
Could be your tip is flexing too far at the end of your cast. Are you trying the cast on your para/metric?
If not, try it and see if the stiffer tip corrects the problem.
Regards


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Post 02 May 2019, 10:24 • #4 
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fly line follows the direction of the rod tip on the moment you stop your stroke.

If your leader (and tip of the fly line) travels upwards this is because your forward stroke is done in an upward angle. An additional twist of your wrist at the end of the stroke might be here also cause of the problem.

Try aiming the cast a bit lower or even a bit downwards to the water.


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Post 02 May 2019, 13:25 • #5 
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Joined: 06/28/18
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ibookje wrote:
fly line follows the direction of the rod tip on the moment you stop your stroke.

If your leader (and tip of the fly line) travels upwards this is because your forward stroke is done in an upward angle. An additional twist of your wrist at the end of the stroke might be here also cause of the problem.

Try aiming the cast a bit lower or even a bit downwards to the water.


Good simple analysis...it's fun, not rocket science...
+1


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Post 02 May 2019, 13:27 • #6 
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Two things to think about:

1. the plane of the loop which need not be aligned with the rod - are you placing that consciously an correctly to fit the gap you are aiming for?
2. the amount of power in the cast - if overpowered leader will kick around, especially if it's short powerful (fast taper).

In your description you aren't clear about when leader and fly rise above the line. If it's before the loop has straightened out the problem is #1 (the loop is in the vertical plane), if it's after the leader straightens then it's again in the vertical plane but underhand and overpowered so #1 and #2 together.

This article more or less gets into the topic: https://www.sexyloops.com/articles/loopcontrol.shtml


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Post 02 May 2019, 14:55 • #7 
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giogio,it's before my loop straightened's out and if I ease up it does not do it but than it falls short.Ron the para is fine.........Aurelio


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Post 02 May 2019, 15:37 • #8 
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Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
that rod was always good for that cast.
I make that cast with haul and shorten my arm movement - may try that.


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Post 02 May 2019, 15:55 • #9 
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Ok. Cannot be 100% certain without seeing but let's try to fix it and then you'll tell us if it works.

Even though you are casting with your rod to the side it looks like you are making a loop that's more vertical than the the rod angle. It might be at 45° or 90°, or somewhere in between - doesn't really matter too much. Also loop is fairly open in the vertical dimension so fly rises.
Loop is't in plane with the rod because you are making an oval motion with the rod tip. Fix #1 - take that oval motion out and create the the loop in line with the rod off to the side. Problem: A tip heavy or soft rod that sags under its own weight will push you towards making an oval motion and this solution might prove difficult.

Fix#2 - Accept the fact that you are going to cast out of plane but keep your loop very narrow so that the fly doesn't rise much. You will achieve this by flattening the oval motion mentioned above as much as possible and using more translation and less rotation (roughly speaking more arm and less - almost no - wrist) so as to move the rod tip in the straightest path possible. As Jay writes above aim low and keeping a tight loop you will be fine.


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Post 02 May 2019, 15:56 • #10 
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Haul is most certainly helpful in controlling loop.


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Post 03 May 2019, 07:30 • #11 
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Thank's for the great info....Aurelio


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Post 03 May 2019, 08:30 • #12 
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Without seeing anything (always tricky when attempting to diagnose an issue...even more-so on a forum where you do have too many cooks in the kitchen), it sounds like the plane advice is spot on. It doesn't matter what angle (straight overhead or side-arm), you've just gotta keep your forward and back stroke in that same plane (i.e. no oval). Whenever I'm trying to stick a cast right under overhanging bushes, I'm casting sidearm and tightening up my loops.

It's funny, when I'm musky fishing that happens to me because I'm often casting in a slight oval and often underhand, but then again I'm trying to do that because it's easier on the shoulder and elbow (it should be noted, that if I'm really going for distance, that won't work).

Cheers


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Post 03 May 2019, 14:58 • #13 
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Yep,underhand like you are flipping with a casting rod.If i am casting real low i will hold the rod so the reel stays toward the ground or water,basically holding it sideways keeps my angle and plane straight.Some rods just dont work well for me in tight conditionsNot blaming the rods,some fine ones i just cant get the hang of.I can use a medium spinning rod and cast anything pretty well.Not so with a fly rod.I always have 2 and sometimes 3 with me rigged up for different things.But i fish for many species during an outing.


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Post 03 May 2019, 15:05 • #14 
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Location: Relocated to the Drought Stricken West.
I would pay special attention to the loop on your backcast. If you start too early or to late, it can cause strange effects.

It also could be to wrist rotation (tracking problems). The more flex in the rod, the more these problems show up. It's interesting that it only happens with one rod.


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Post 03 May 2019, 16:46 • #15 
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Wow you guys are good. I am absolutely astonished at the points in this one discussion, not to say surprised that Old Fitzgerald hasn't spoken up like he would at camp along that brook: You want to get under that low brush, fish the brook when the water is lower. There will be more room under there for a curlycast. After you've covered it, wade on up there with your multitool with a good hack of a blade or cutting pliers, and trim that brush away until there is enough room under it at the higher flows you usually fish there. Throw the prunings over on the bank. You don't want them stuck in the streambed to snag on. You get Jim Beam up to camp and have a look at the spot and he'll tell you the same thing.


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Post 03 May 2019, 16:57 • #16 
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Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
The places I fish that cast, there basically isn't any back-cast - the longest back-cast will be straight upstream or downstream, making the forward cast an obtuse line direction change.
So plan on one slow back-cast just to get your working line out, and maybe a touch of haul, and all your line speed comes from the short forward cast, and definitely with haul.
Think 15-20' presentation 2' off the water to big fish you see, who feel really secure in their overhang.


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Post 03 May 2019, 18:21 • #17 
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Joined: 10/09/09
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Location: US-NM
whrlpool, old Fitzgerald is a wise man I carry a pruning saw.........Aurelio


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Post 03 May 2019, 18:39 • #18 
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Joined: 11/06/17
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Location: South of Joplin
Quote:
one of my rods

I guess the answer is in this phrase, if you were doing it wrong it would show up in all your rods. Soft, heavy tip?


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Post 03 May 2019, 18:50 • #19 
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Joined: 10/09/09
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Location: US-NM
Trev,maybe I am trying to go past the rods capabilities if I take the dropper off I don't have a problem,butt I got a lot of good info here so next time I go out I will try different things.......Aurelio


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