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Post 16 Jul 2016, 06:47 • #1 
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Spotted this on the Hardy site. They are introducing a new glass series, the Sirrus. They are saying it's going to be released on 9/12/2016. They are tan; 3pc with spigot ferrules; feature spiral wraps and they are to be endowed with Sintrix technology. All that said, the most intriguing thing I read is they are being described as parabolic. The sintrix resin system will allow them to be really light (see the link below). Lengths are 6, 7, 7.5 and 8.


Last edited by scud dog on 16 Jul 2016, 16:41, edited 2 times in total.

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Post 16 Jul 2016, 07:12 • #2 
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I'm not sure I understand the composition/design, but I have a Hardy Zenith, also made with Sintrix, and think it is really great. The $399 price point is, I think, the highest for production rods (Scott F2 excluded) and basically in line with the Orvis SFG. Be interesting to see how these sell. Personally, I think the middle, in terms of price point, isn't the best spot to target. Be interesting to see some reviews down the road, though I will no doubt be sticking with my Barclay Ps (64p and 75p) for parabolics.


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Post 16 Jul 2016, 16:55 • #3 
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http://www.hardyfishing.com/Hardy-sintr ... ology.html
Good link above (beats me trying to explain it).
I can't imagine how a parabolic 6' 2wt with Sintrix would be. I'm not opposed to advancements in technology and think that these may be really cool or really strange. I'm hoping for good.
WNC, in my opinion the Thomas and Thomas Heirloom at $760 and the other rods in the Hardy lineup makes these Sirrus rods look cheap.


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Post 16 Jul 2016, 18:21 • #4 
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scud dog wrote:
WNC, in my opinion the Thomas and Thomas Heirloom at $760 and the other rods in the Hardy lineup makes these Sirrus rods look cheap.


Sure, by those measuring sticks.

I guess my point is that I basically see there as being four tiers (based on price, not necessarily quality) of production rods: (4) Ultra low (Cabela's, especially when on sale); (3) low (sub-$300, so Fenwick, Echo, Redington); (2) mid ($400ish, so Orvis and the new Hardy); and (1) top ($600+, so Scott, Epic studio builds). Not quite sure where Diamondback fits at $325 and I'm sure I left some companies out.

Anyway, I can see a lot of people opting for a Cabela's or one of the low category rods (not saying $300 isn't a lot of money, just that it's less than $400 and a lot less than $600) because they're buying their first glass rod, that's the top of their budget or they could but just don't want to spend more for a rod. And I can see a lot of people, where budget isn't really an issue, opting for a Scott, an Epic or a custom rod. But, in my view at least, that middle category is tough. You have to convince the consumer that your product is $100-$150 "better" than the lower category, and also so good that they shouldn't spend $200 more for a top category rod (or only $100 more for a custom Steffen). At least Orvis has its own stores and a certain core customer base that is happy to buy what they see on the Orvis rod rack and not look around elsewhere. I think it'll be tougher for Hardy.

I don't think I'm wading into political territory here, but looking beyond the fly fishing industry the last couple of years there's been kind of a barbell syndrome among retailers. This is obviously a generalization and there are exception at every level, but for the most part the dollar store/low-priced retailers have done well, the luxury retailers have done well but the mid-tier retailers have struggled.

Anyway, I've become a big Hardy fan. As said above I love my Zenith and I love what they're doing with their reels. I just think their price point may be challenging with this new offering. I guess we'l; see. Obviously a lot will depend on reviews.


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Post 16 Jul 2016, 19:34 • #5 
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I don't travel as often as I use too. I'm not familiar with the graphite rod market. I wouldn't notice the difference between a $200 or $600 rod just looking. I don't know the rod market really well but I do know that a $399 glass rod is going to look tempting to someone that is accustomed to dropping $550, $600, $700 and more.
I suspect that some people equate fiberglass with being heavy. When some people are handed a Sirrus (cloud) the "wow, it's light " will suck them in. I'm curious to see how they are. If Hardy did their homework and tweaked the tapers right it could be a hit. Odds are it won't but I'm hoping to be wrong. There's been a lot of highly favorable comments regarding Chris Barclay's parabolic rods. It's going to be interesting to see if the new Hardys will be compared to them favorably.
Yes, we're seeing a lot of major rod builders creating glass rods but Hardy is the only one that gave us the "Fiberglass Perfection ".


Last edited by scud dog on 16 Jul 2016, 19:49, edited 2 times in total.

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Post 16 Jul 2016, 19:35 • #6 
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Steffen. Tried and true.


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Post 16 Jul 2016, 20:22 • #7 
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Very interesting!
I like the color scheme. Retro and Phillipson-esque to my eye.
http://www.hardyfishing.com/hardy-rods- ... ml#start=9

Ed raises an intriguing question. Is the Hardy brand is strong enough to attract buyers at that price point? I think so. I am a big fan of their reels and I find myself plotting ways to acquire more as well as influencing others to do the same. My local fly shop doesn't have a wide selection of glass rods (Scott, Redington, and Fenglass), will they add the Hardy glass line to their stock since they sell Hardy graphite?

Will Harris carry these rods? Does that price look better with a 30% discount?


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Post 16 Jul 2016, 20:35 • #8 
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If the pound drops to parity with the dollar what happens?

Barry


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Post 16 Jul 2016, 21:43 • #9 
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Then Hardy's will be quite competitive abroad.

Love those white spigots and would really like to try one. Eight feet of parabolic and, hopefully, lightweight glass could be very interesting.

Hayden


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Post 17 Jul 2016, 00:24 • #10 
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$400 is just a bit more than the price point of the last generation Hardy glass rods... the Aln, Brook, Stream, Test, and Trout Fisher. Hardy discontinued those--didn't sell? I'm not really a fan of yellow colored rods, so I dunno about these new ones. I'll have to test one when I get a chance.


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Post 17 Jul 2016, 07:33 • #11 
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scud dog wrote:
I suspect that some people equate fiberglass with being heavy. When some people are handed a Sirrus (cloud) the "wow, it's light " will suck them in.


Good point, and that may well happen.

In re-reading some of my earlier comments and some subsequent posts by others, I realized a couple of things. One, I was coming at it from a US-centric point of view, and overlooking that in other markets(especially the UK), because of currency issues and import duties, the Hardy rod may be cheaper than some of the "peer rods", which may not even be available in those markets. Two, I was assuming that Hardy would be trying to convince people to fork out $400 for a rod sight unseen. None of the fly shops in my area carry Hardy rods, and so I was assuming they have a zero shelf presence everywhere and would be relying almost exclusively on internet sales, whereas people have a better chance of being able to wiggle or test cast a Butterstick, Fenglass, Orvis, etc. before buying. But obviously there are US shops that do carry Hardy and so some US consumers will be able to try before they buy.

Anyway, upon further reflection my initial analysis was less than thorough. I'm not saying that I've changed my conclusion/opinion about the price point and sales potential, for the US market at least, but I guess I'm less certain about it. Regardless, I applaud Hardy for making the effort. I've only been fly fishing a few years and so this may be off base, but my initial take on Hardy was that it was an (perhaps "the") iconic fly fishing company that had lost its way. But it's got a lot of mojo these days (if it in fact had lost it): the Grey's rods were a big hit with the Euronymphing crowd, the Zenith really was a different type of, and special, rod, and though pricey the UK-made reels are gorgeous.


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Post 17 Jul 2016, 17:06 • #12 
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Hardy had a good presence in the US market at one time. Poor service and bad management hurt them big time.
Pure owns them now. They do business with box stores.
Did you know Walmart sells the new Pflueger Medalist reels online? Maybe they'll have the glass rods on their site soon. ;)


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Post 18 Jul 2016, 15:48 • #13 
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I'll chime in as I'm located in Europe.

In my view there are several issues going on with Hardy.

1) Hardy was a dominating brand in the old (pre 1990) days. This was a very comfortable position which resulted in low pace of innovation.

2) the rise of brands like Sage and G. Loomis with their new approach (rods being 'performers') caused a big shift towards faster action rods. The rods were much faster & lighter than we were used to. Hardy being a dominant brand kept sleeping.

When they woke up (= continuous decreasing sales) they tried to change course but found out that it needs more than just stiff rods. Hardy was considered a dinosaur brand no fly fishermen wants to be linked to.

3) trying to rebrand the name Hardy as well putting more innovations turned out to be more difficult (especially financially) then they thought. Shops were still not able to sell the gear as well as the new high brands like Sage and G. Loomis. Brand loyalty is also a thing of the past Hardy found out.

Finally, 4)
The pace and effort needed to innovate just couldn't be maintained by the original owner. The funds (marketing!) needed just wasn't there. They even tried to establish more visibility by starting Hardy USA but it didn't work out.

So Hardy is sold and the new owner is doing it differently. They don't care for brand loyalty as it used to be. They are looking for yield & return on investment. So big box shops rather than selected dealerships. More production shift to Far East and much more money on marketing.

So Hardy is now in a difficult position not knowing how to position the brand. My guess is that Hardy will keep having a tough time to survive. The good old days are over.


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Post 18 Jul 2016, 16:40 • #14 
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scud dog wrote:
I don't travel as often as I use too. I'm not familiar with the graphite rod market. I wouldn't notice the difference between a $200 or $600 rod just looking. I don't know the rod market really well but I do know that a $399 glass rod is going to look tempting to someone that is accustomed to dropping $550, $600, $700 and more.
I suspect that some people equate fiberglass with being heavy. When some people are handed a Sirrus (cloud) the "wow, it's light " will suck them in. I'm curious to see how they are. If Hardy did their homework and tweaked the tapers right it could be a hit. Odds are it won't but I'm hoping to be wrong. There's been a lot of highly favorable comments regarding Chris Barclay's parabolic rods. It's going to be interesting to see if the new Hardys will be compared to them favorably.
Yes, we're seeing a lot of major rod builders creating glass rods but Hardy is the only one that gave us the "Fiberglass Perfection ".


Not sure about the Sirrus meaning a cloud. The cloud type is cirrus, so don't know why or where Hardy grabbed that one from. Lots of high tech stuff related to Sirrus.


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Post 18 Jul 2016, 21:23 • #15 
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Sirrus was likely easier to copyright vs cirrus being it's a cloud. Marketing is a factor. I suspect they wanted to moron-proof the name. Scarey to think how some people would pronounce cirrus. Plus, some visually impaired folks would call it a circus rod.


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Post 19 Jul 2016, 09:48 • #16 
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I actually think that Hardy is on the rebound. They're making Bougles in England again. They just signed a long term lease in Alnwick. They introduced the Dutchess reel the year (also made in England). They're reintroducing the Marquis trout reels as well. I talked to a contact at a local fly shop who says that support from Pure has improved in the last year.

Hardy is a Halo brand for Pure, I imagine. Just because they sell Pflueger in Walmart doesn't mean that they're going to push their high end brands into discount stores...

By analogy, the Swatch Group makes Swatch watches... and also Omegas that cost 100's of times more. Same company, very different distribution channels...


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Post 19 Jul 2016, 13:09 • #17 
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I understand the theory of the middle ground market having a hard time, but I don't exactly agree with it. I like having options in that range, as it is the top end of my budget. I would expect the same is true for a lot of people. $400 is the max for a lot of working class people and it'll probably be the "one big purchase" of their rod collection. And a prized possession.
With that said, will it be this rod people will buy for their "big purchase"? Maybe. Probably not. Most would get the orvis or Steffen, as they have proven themselves to be fine rods. Others will save a little more and get a Barclay, etc.

I honestly hope it turns out to be a fine rod, maybe turn some people on to glass (or at least they'll respect it a little more). Maybe even breath some new life into Hardy. I don't know, we'll see I suppose.

Sidenote: it's irritating that too many companies stop at 5wts. I think we need more great 6wts to choose from.


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Post 19 Jul 2016, 13:41 • #18 
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topha wrote:

Sidenote: it's irritating that too many companies stop at 5wts. I think we need more great 6wts to choose from.


I'll drink to that.


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Post 19 Jul 2016, 15:43 • #19 
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I somewhat disagree that most people would get a Steffen. Steffens are still an unknown to most fly fishermen. I've been fishing for 15 years and I've never seen one in person. You can't walk into a store and find a new one anywhere that I'm aware of. That's where Orvis has a huge advantage. Same for a CGR or even a Butter Stick. The average glass fisherman might be aware of Steffen rods but is likely to be wary of ordering something sight unseen. Hardy doesn't have much better distribution, but at least they do some advertising in the usual fishing magazines and will put some youtube videos up. Their rods also get thrown into the infamous YA Shootouts. But glass gets shunned for those, of course (most likely because the Yellowstone Angler is afraid of being proven wrong after all their comments about speed, accuracy and the need for new technology).

I doubt the new Hardy rod will do much more than what Orvis has already done. Hardy is probably just trying to fill in some gaps in their lineup. But I'm sure we all think that's a step in the right direction in this case.


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Post 19 Jul 2016, 18:31 • #20 
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JoeFriday wrote:

I doubt the new Hardy rod will do much more than what Orvis has already done. Hardy is probably just trying to fill in some gaps in their lineup. But I'm sure we all think that's a step in the right direction in this case.

You're likely right. I doubt they expect to be overwhelmed with request. I think their motivation to create a glass rod is in part a link to their roots and as an example of what their Sintrix technology will allow them to do. It also wouldn't surprise me if a few of the older Hardy employees enjoy fishing glass and helped push for it's production.
Last thought, I personally wish the new rods had the same reel seats as the last two rods had. That said, I'm sure Pure knows a RHW grip sells better. They're hoping to expand the market a bit.


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Post 19 Jul 2016, 22:16 • #21 
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scud dog wrote:
Last thought, I personally wish the new rods had the same reel seats as the last two rods had. That said, I'm sure Pure knows a RHW grip sells better. They're hoping to expand the market a bit.


I wish the same thing. Funny, "heritage" clothing is all the rage and has been for a while. I guess fly fishers are not following fashion trends. I personally think that Pure blew it with Fenwick when they didn't bring back the fiberglass cosmetics right out of the 1970's (crazy braid and all) -- I would have purchased at least one Fenglass rod if they had. Same for Hardy. When all rods have the same western grip and uplocking seat, it's boring monotony...

Yes, for me, cosmetics do matter...


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Post 21 Jul 2016, 13:56 • #22 
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New Hardy's are beautiful , nicest wood spacer in production Rod.


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Post 21 Jul 2016, 15:12 • #23 
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I wish it had a down locking seat. Never liked sliding bands


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Post 26 Jul 2016, 22:48 • #24 
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motosacto wrote:
$400 is just a bit more than the price point of the last generation Hardy glass rods... the Aln, Brook, Stream, Test, and Trout Fisher. Hardy discontinued those--didn't sell? I'm not really a fan of yellow colored rods, so I dunno about these new ones. I'll have to test one when I get a chance.

You're right, the olive rods didn't sell. The guides were larger than usual; the rods had one fewer guides than what is now the norm; the rods were two piece. (the new ones are going to be 3pc) and the old rods have a graphite scrim. Those white spigots don't look very good with graphite stains. Hopefully, Hardy has learned. 3pc vs 2pc will definitely help sales and help justify the bit of a price hike. The old prices ranged $325- $400 so for the 805, the new rod will cost the same AND is a 3pc.
I'm with you motosacto, I want to cast one before buying one. The last series was OK and OK isn't good enough for a $399 retail price.


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Post 31 Jul 2016, 21:34 • #25 
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Fellows, one of the benefits of living near Columbia, South Carolina is that Pure Fishing is close by and I was able to get one of the new Sirrus fly rods and new Hardy Marquis LWT to take along this week to Wyoming. I have the 7' 3/4 weight which the fellow at Hardy suggested was more of a four weight in his hands.

Image


This is just one of several late stage samples for ICAST and the fit and finish is really excellent. I agree that the wood spacer looks excellent. The guides are oversized which is something that I see on fly rods made overseas for some reason. I'll give some thoughts on casting and fishing it after the trip to Wyoming.

P.S. The Marquis LWT is REALLY nice. I'll post some more images of that soon too.


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