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Post 28 Mar 2012, 09:01 • #51 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 08/14/06
Posts: 1212
Location: Panther City, Texas
Bamboozle wrote:
I'll drink to that! ;)

Me too bro! :lol


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Post 28 Mar 2012, 09:21 • #52 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 18347
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
ah, we're starting early today ...


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Post 28 Mar 2012, 16:19 • #53 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/16/05
Posts: 2438
Location: Georgia
bulldog1935 wrote:
ah, we're starting early today ...

Ron, we're worldwide. It's 5:00 for somebody somewhere, and it's only polite to join in.


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Post 21 May 2012, 23:48 • #54 
Guide
Joined: 05/15/12
Posts: 194
Location: Longview-Tyler metro Texas, USA
I thought graphite sold better because it was lighter, and it was marketed heavier. I bought my son a fiberglass rod that was rebuilt. It was a no name rod. (just to get him started) That rod gave me a back ache. It casted alright. It did not give him a back ache, but it sure did for me. (I am a woman, and even 8wt rods like a Redington Crosswater hurt my back after a while of casting) After that, I decided fiberglass were all heavy, and graphite was better. Then I started listening to what glass lovers said. A couple of my friends let me cast their glass rod last summer. I was hooked after that. If fiberglass does indeed hold up better and have less breakage, that is for sure a reason to prefer it. I think I will have all 3 types of rods though, with a bamboo in the future. But after I just got this rod, I'm already dreaming about another fiberglass rod. Addicting obsession this fly rodding ... :smokin


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Post 22 May 2012, 16:48 • #55 
Master Guide
Joined: 02/04/12
Posts: 685
Location: SE Pa
Quote:
I think all of technical reasons presented, whether they are valid or not, have very little weight in comparison with the marketing. As I have probably said before, fishing marketeers are always trying to sell tackle to people that already own good tackle.

I 100% agree with the "Madison Avenue effect"!

That being said, I too am old enough to recall when graphite was new; I was a spin fisherman then. I can still remember my first 6'6" Shakespeare graphite spinning rod. It had a moderate action, and was a far - far superior rod than any other I had ever used which included Fenwick, Garcia and Wonderod. It was much lighter in weight and made hours of fishing much more enjoyable, and while still a moderate action it could set a hook much much much better.

I like the 7' Kettle Creek fibererglass flyrod rod I made; it's so much lighter and nicer to use than any vintage fiberglass rod I've restored. Seems that the fiberglass that graphite replaced "back when" was not the same fiberglass that's available today.

I don't know that I'd want to use even a newer 8'6" fiberglass rod, however. But, that's just me.


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Post 22 May 2012, 21:01 • #56 
New Member
Joined: 05/22/12
Posts: 4
Location: US-CT
At several places in this thread the replacement of bamboo by fiberglass was mentioned. Reasons are pretty simple. Relative bamboo prices was beginning to rise as wage incomes rose after the War-- bamboo rod making is more labor intensive.

But even more significant is that the raw material Tonkin cane, which is almost exclusively a product of China was placed, along with other Chinese goods, under an embargo in 1950. The embargo was not lifted until 1971


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Post 28 May 2012, 19:51 • #57 
Master Guide
Joined: 06/27/06
Posts: 774
Location: SW Missouri Ozark Plateau
I think all three materials, bamboo, glass, and graphite, are superior when used within their performance parameters. Bamboo excels in complicated tapers, feel and durability. Glass is a cheaper alternative that excells in shorter, softer rod actions. Graphite is superior in long, light, fast rods. In my opinion, each is a good material in its own right. But I think bamboo and solid rods like Hexagraphs are the most durable, being of solid construction. Step on a bamboo or Hexagraphs and you might scuff it; step on a hollow rod, be it glass or graphite, and you will likely crush it.


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Post 29 May 2012, 16:47 • #58 
Sport
Joined: 03/26/12
Posts: 48
Location: southeast Pa
marketing "new rod" gotta have the newest stuff out there mentallity. could also be the reason i just reseved another rod from greywolf. going back to glass is not a bad thing. I grew up with all glass spinning rods and a can of worms. maybe i am retro dude


Last edited by stone-flylarva on 29 May 2012, 16:57, edited 1 time in total.

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Post 29 May 2012, 16:52 • #59 
Sport
Joined: 03/26/12
Posts: 48
Location: southeast Pa
marketing replaced glass. we gotta have the newest stuff right? could be the reason i just reserved a new rod from Greywolf. I grew up on glass in the 60's , spinng rods , shakespere and fenwicks with a can of worms. maybe i as i get older i am going retro


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Post 29 May 2012, 18:18 • #60 
Master Guide
Joined: 04/27/09
Posts: 573
Location: US-SD
Besides the marketing, I note that graphite rods are sold for several hundred dollars or more. The fiberglass rods never went for this much, nor would buyers have stood for a sudden increase in the fiberglass rod cost to match the prices charged for graphite. The materials in the rods are fairly equivalent in cost, so the rest of the graphite expenditure by the customer is all profit for the rod manufacturer. So what motivation existed to try to sell fiberglass rods when so much greater a profit could be made by the new Wonder Material?


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Post 29 May 2012, 19:05 • #61 
Sport
Joined: 03/26/12
Posts: 48
Location: southeast Pa
true very true. I just read an article on how the price of graphite is sky rocketing. i can only imagine sage's next high ender , probably named "the grand". oohhhh gotta have that one.


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Post 01 Jun 2012, 05:48 • #62 
Guide
Joined: 01/27/12
Posts: 203
Location: US-PA
I own rods in all 3 materials , Bamboo, Graphite and glass and in lengths that are best for each material. Bamboo in lengths 8' and under (lengths longer than 8' are to heavy and sloppy ,IMHO). Graphite in lengths 6' - 9' ( the stuff really shines in lengths 7'-6" and longer but I have shorter lengths by high end makers that are phenomenal casters). Glass in lengths of 5'-1"- 7'-6" ( I have never found a glass rod 8' or longer that I considered a good casting rod).

In lengths 8 1/2' and longer , Graphite has no equal. This is why in longer lengths ,Graphite all but replaced Glass.


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Post 01 Jun 2012, 07:42 • #63 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 18347
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
the cost of the rod is the marketing.
The shows, the sponsorships and testimonials, the magazine glossies.


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Post 01 Jun 2012, 08:01 • #64 
Guide
Joined: 11/28/11
Posts: 325
Location: US-MI
I just bought a Sage RPL 9" 5 wt. after a day of casting streamers in to a 35MPH headwind with my Lami S glass. I'm not selling my glass or cane but I'd like to have a rod that would buck high winds and cast weight when I needed to. At least the RPL is a classic and was bought cheap. I am unashamed.


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Post 01 Jun 2012, 09:25 • #65 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/03/07
Posts: 1152
Location: Shenandoah Valley of Virginia
6footrod wrote:
In lengths 8 1/2' and longer , Graphite has no equal. This is why in longer lengths ,Graphite all but replaced Glass.

I'll drink to that.


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Post 04 Jun 2012, 12:26 • #66 
Sport
Joined: 02/22/12
Posts: 54
Location: Motherlode
I spent 9 hours on the water a couple weeks ago. While a couple hours were spent with a Granger 8642 in hand, most of the time I was using a Grey's Streamflex 10' 3wt. This rod weighs what a lot of 7' glass rods weigh, has a very moderate action compared to most graphite, and allowed me to fish an indicator rig up to 60' away (longer is soooo much better when it comes to line management). Can anyone here imagine high sticking a 10' long fiberglass rod for an entire day? My shoulder is demanding Ibuprofen just thinking about it ...

Of course, I did use a CGR 4 wt a few days later, and had a ball with with some partridge and olive's while the kids were trying to hurt peanut trout using worms. Final tally - Dad 3, kids 0. The fish were keyed in on Chironomids, and just didn't want to hold on to a worm for more than a moment, and we couldn't get the circle hooks to stick.

Am debating the use of an FF80, FF858, or a graphite rod for carp on Sunday. The guide thinks glass is weak. I'm thinking for a subtle presentation, glass is where it's at, and my Lamson 3.5 is what's going to stop the fish ...

In the end, it's all about the silly pursuit of animals with brain's the size of peas +/-. Use what you feel like on any particular day ...

Scott


Last edited by ScottThornley on 04 Jun 2012, 13:08, edited 1 time in total.

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Post 04 Jun 2012, 12:42 • #67 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 18347
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
In 8-1/2', cane has no equal for a trout rod, and S-glass has no equal for an inshore rod.
In 9', graphite has no equal.


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Post 04 Jun 2012, 14:05 • #68 
Global Moderator
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8649
Location: US-ME
"The guide thinks 'glass is weak." Another brain the size of a pea.


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Post 04 Jun 2012, 17:09 • #69 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/03/07
Posts: 1152
Location: Shenandoah Valley of Virginia
bulldog1935 wrote:
In 8-1/2', cane has no equal for a trout rod, and S-glass has no equal for an inshore rod.
In 9', graphite has no equal.

Ron, I must respectfully wholeheartedly disagree on the 8.5' claim. In the past two years I sold three 8.5 bamboo rods, all highly rated and endeared by the bamboo community; Heddon Bill Stanley #20, Granger Champion, and W-M Granger Special 8642. All were too heavy, too clunky, and no fun, FOR ME, to fish any longer. The main one would be the weight, which pained my wrist and elbow after an hour. Many nice glass in that length, but tons of medium action graphite rods to choose from.


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Post 04 Jun 2012, 17:55 • #70 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 07/05/10
Posts: 5175
Location: Mid Hudson Valley of New York
IMO Duff's post hit the nail square on the head. Consider any commercial enterprise, in any industry: to stay in business and remain profitable they must create consumer demand for "new" and "improved" products. In a few words, that is why graphite replaced fiberglass. Granted, as when fiberglass replaced bamboo for instance, there may be real technological advancements and advantages, but they do not always equate to "better" consumer products, or the right choice for everyone. So the hand-held computing device is supplanting the tablet/notebook computer, which replaced the laptop, which replaced the desktop, which replaced ... it never ends ... I think most FFRs see through this, and so we buy what suits us best, not what someone else tells us we need. We are so smart :rollin


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Post 04 Jun 2012, 17:58 • #71 
Master Guide
Joined: 12/29/11
Posts: 500
Location: US-CA
bulldog1935 wrote:
In 8-1/2', cane has no equal for a trout rod.

Pretty sweeping statement, and I have to disagree. I've cast some terrific 8 1/2' trout rods in graphite, glass and bamboo, and I think the preferences of individual users would determine which was "best". In graphite, Winston Joan Wulff Favorite, Scott G series, Loomis GLX Presentation are all ones I've cast and found excellent. In glass, Claudio A & B tapers, Fenwick FF 84 and others were outstanding casters. All were 8 1/2' 5 or 6 wts. and I'm sure others could cite many other great rods in graphite and glass that would rival the best 8 1/2' bamboos, that would include Payne 204, E.C. Powell hollowbuilt A and B tapers and other noted bamboos of that length.


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Post 04 Jun 2012, 21:48 • #72 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 18347
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
I have three 8-1/2' 4/5 wt. cane rods (not under-lined 6-wts) and one 8-1/2' 6-wt.
I of course fish a tailwater, and the west, but they are hands down the best trout rods I've ever fished.
I only go for the 6-wt when I need it - big wind.
There are a few spots where I would rather fish an 8' rod, and I have that covered in 4 cane rods. (and a couple of glass)
I don't find rods shorter than 8' useful for trout at all.
None of these rods are heavy or clunky. The rods include 3 Thomas, 3 Heddon, a SB 323 HEH and a Leonard Fairy.
It's not the Bill Stanley that matters (that's the finish grade), it's 1-3/4 ferrule size (that's the taper). If you're trying to fish a 2f Heddon for anything other than giant flows, long casts or big wind, you picked the wrong rod.

here's the 8-1/2' 6-wt at work. This was last Saturday, and I picked this rod because I knew were were going to this big water slot. Jimbo has the camera and he gets a bit campy.
Image
between us, we caught 9 trout here, 16" to 20", in an hour.
I'm standing on flagstone and there is an 8' deep slot in front of me coming off a weir and riffle, and pouring most of the river into the slot. A perfect June holdover spot.

All my warmwater fishing is in smaller water, and that's where shorter rods are useful to me. I have a couple of short graphite rods that work, a couple of short cane rods, including a Driggs River and Farlow Armour Cane (both paras), but mid-weight, mid-length glass are my go-to rods for warmwater.


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Post 05 Jun 2012, 04:59 • #73 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 12/03/07
Posts: 1152
Location: Shenandoah Valley of Virginia
bulldog1935 wrote:
It's not the Bill Stanley that matters (that's the finish grade), it's 1-3/4 ferrule size (that's the taper). If you're trying to fish a 2f Heddon for anything other than giant flows, long casts or big wind, you picked the wrong rod.
.

Right about the ferrule size, Ron. I owned the 1.5f in an 8 footer and it was a sweet rod and have never owned a 1 3/4 ferrule 8'6" Heddon. But the 4 or 5 2f Heddons I've had, failed in giant flows, long casts and big wind. I'll take a nice medium action glass or graphite rod hands down over the 2f, in any situation.


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Post 05 Jun 2012, 08:42 • #74 
Piscator
Joined: 08/10/05
Posts: 18347
Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
As I learned on Clark's, the Heddon 8-1/2' 1-3/4f is lighter in weight than an 8642, and is the lightest 8-1/2' rod I own.
All of these rods perform best by matching to the right reel.
My Heddon 2f gets a Young 16a perfect, but the 1-3/4f can fish with a much lighter reel, like a 1930 Russell.
Image
It makes a combo with wizard qualities.


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Post 05 Jun 2012, 09:34 • #75 
Master Guide
Joined: 05/17/11
Posts: 997
Location: US-NC
gearboy wrote:
bulldog1935 wrote:
In 8-1/2', cane has no equal for a trout rod, and S-glass has no equal for an inshore rod.
In 9', graphite has no equal.

Ron, I must respectfully wholeheartedly disagree on the 8.5' claim. In the past two years I sold three 8.5 bamboo rods, all highly rated and endeared by the bamboo community; Heddon Bill Stanley #20, Granger Champion, and W-M Granger Special 8642. All were too heavy, too clunky, and no fun, FOR ME, to fish any longer. The main one would be the weight, which pained my wrist and elbow after an hour. Many nice glass in that length, but tons of medium action graphite rods to choose from.

For me, the Heddon Model 20 8 1/2', 1 3/4 F and the Granger 8 1/2' Champion 8642 are
two of the finest bamboo tapers ever developed. Certainly not too heavy or especially clunky, in my
opinion. The GC8642 weighs in at 5oz, while the Heddon weighs approx. 4 3/4oz. I've fished both
all day long with no ill effects of the wrist or elbow and had a ton of fun doing it.

Wouldn't trade either for two medium action graphite rods.


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