Glass ferrules? Anywhere from $150 to a bit over $275 depending on how pretty the photos are. It is basically a Phillipson glass ferruled rod blank with Orvis reelseat, grip, and guide work. I think the rods were built in the Orvis shop so the detail level is a bit better than was typical of Phillipson.

Metal ferrules? Probably in the $125 to $200 range. It's still a good rod, but the glass ferrules command a premium on the market.

We all know about the Shakespeare page that Gaddis has labored over, but he also did a great job building the Orvis Wiki page too.

Tom

The Orvis rods came quite a few different ways in 7ft based on Phillipson blanks for the years. I have multi piece Spin/Fly rods rated as 7wt, Metal Ferruled two piece models rated 6t which are based on earlier uniglass blanks, not Epoxite blanks which are rated 6wt but really need a DT6wt or WF7wt to load. Then there are those that are based on the late 60s Epoxite blanks with tip ove but Phillipson ferruling. They were wrapped by Orvis and to their standards. I have one, I have no idea how it compairs to yours, mine was in the tube, sock etc all documented as at 5wt. I fish it that way too. Anyway compair this set of pictures to what you have. This rod is a little longer at 7ft but a true 5wt easily handling a WF5wt and equally happy with a DT4wt.
Richard

Richard

As a post script here, I have several other Phillipson/Orvis rods. Let me say this, the earliest two I have are Phillipson NS ferruled. Im quite certain both (Fullflex and Powerflex) are based on the earlier Phillipson supplied 3M Scotchply uniglass blanks. Same as the Johnson profile series and pretty common to the entire line before the introduction of the Epoxite material. Likewise I have a couple of Orvis tip over butt spin fly rods. Clearly with the Phillipson ferrules. They are rated 7wts, even though 7ft. Frankly I think they are the same 3M Scotchply uniglass blanks, not Epoxites like the Golden Eagle series. They match perfectly my fly fox rods, based on those same 3M Scotchply uniglass blanks!
The last major change was the Golden Eagle series as shown above, purely on Epoxite blanks. Although according to Orvis the blanks were tuned to order for their order. In any case after they discontinued the Phillipson blanks, they rolled their own for a few years, the Fullflex A and Fullflex AII, frankly a common glass blank, like any other, nothing special at all. In fact of the two Ive cast IMHO, very inferior to the entire line of Phillopson supplied blanks. Of course they were offered late in the game and many ealier glass customers assumed they were Phillipsons as well, they were not.
So ended Orvis's experiment into glass rod mfg.
Richared

In the Spring 1973 Orvis catalog they listed both the FullFlex and the Fullflex II. The FullFlex had the glass ferrules and walnut reel seat while the FullFlex II had a black reel seat with nickel silver ferrules. The copy for the FullFlex II promotes it as a more economical option ($37.50-$38.50 while the FullFlex was $49.00 - $55.00) and a "Learner's Outfit" (their words) for the beginner. These I think are the last made Phillipson rods for Orvis as their relationship ended about this time.
I think the very early Phillipson made FullFlex rods all had nickel silver ferrules.

Steve

I had always understood the connection between Phillipson and Orvis ended in 1972 as well but the catalog I have (Spring 1973) was most likely put together in the winter and Orvis probably had old inventory they were still selling. The FullFlex A and AII and not even listed in the catalog - only the FullFlex and FullFlexII and the rods pictured are the yellow blanks we understand as Phillipsons, I'm sure there was probably an overlap.

Come to think of it, we should have a thread for rods like we do for reel papers.

Frank,
Have you seen the Wiki? That's the place for information along the lines of the reel papers posts. Gaddis has put quite a bit of information into the Orvis page based on his catalogs.

Richard,
Looking at the ferrules will clearly indicate if they are Phillipsons or not. Orvis made rods didn't have metal ferrule rings or nickel silver ferrules. But if you want to strip them down, feel free.

Tom

Well I beg to differ, my Orvis Phillipsons did have metal ferrule rings (Epoxites and glass 3m scotchply uniglass in the pack rod series, and the nickel silver ferrules are on my full flex and and Powerflex models. I haven't posted pics just because of weather conditions here now outdoors, but the early NS Phillipson ferruled glass rods are quite distinctive.
The Orvis made glass rods I have early on were poor quality, you are right, no NS Phillipson ferrules, no metal ferrule rings. Likewise those I have or seen are with one or two exceptions clear finished.
Richard

Frank thanks for posting that information from the catalog I appreciate it and it clarifies the reel seat variations I have seen. I have three full flex rods but only one has the wooden insert reel seat.

My rod in the photo is without question a Phillipson and the ferrule is nickel silver. You can sort of make it out in this photo-

I agree.
I must say, clearly you both have a wealth of experience with Orvis glass rods - I remember this from last fall http://fiberglassflyrodde ... m/reply/48439#reply-48439
I just happen to have a few catalogs that I picked up for info about the reels and wanted to share that. I have one Orvis glass rod - yellow, black wraps, black metal seat and metal ferules. I thought it was the same one you had Jeff but yours has glass ferrules. Now I have a question for you both - my rod has ten guides, not the typical nine you see on Phillipsons. Do you know of any other examples like this? It is an 8' and (not stated on the rod-simply says Orvis FullFlex II) is rated for, I believe an 8wt. line.

Hi Frank, actually I think I have that exact rod, from your post its a Phillipson supplied blank, Scotchply Uniglass with Phillipson NS ferrules, Orvis Full flex, black no rock reel seat etc, I would date it to around a 1969 date. Although Epoxites were in the lineup from Phillipson then, along with the classic glass ferruling with metal ring, Catalogues are made a year or so in advance, OEM contracts as well, so it would not surprise me to learn that my Fullflex with NS ferrules based on the previous premium lineup of Scotchply uniglass blanks would have been considered premium by Orvis Catalogues during the same year that Phillipson introduced the Epoxite line of rods. Likewise the time is right for the same glass tip over butt with metal ring ferruling prior to Epoxite. I have at least four examples of such rods, two are Orvis pack rods, one is LL Bean and yet another a year earlier labled for Phillipson. While the buckskin tan versions are identical to Fly Fox models, my Phillipson is Salmon colored, yet all are based on the white 3m Scotchply uniglass blanks.
Tom Im not gonna do a complete strip on the little pack rods, although at least two of the Orvis rods need grip repair so before I replace the cork I will strip the paint to absolutely identify the blank sourse.
Ive found quite a difference in quite a few of my Phillipson blanks. For instance Eponite blanks, my favorites of the entire Phillipson lineup were actually in at least three different color combinations. The early clear finished blanks look like everybody elses glass. Say 55-59 or 60. However around 60-61 the blanks that were made and used by Phillipson for their Master series yellow wraps have a under the paint finish alot like the earlier clear coated natural Master rods. Next the last of the documented Eponites, the Johnson Profile Series 400, Im finished stripping one now for a full on repair restoration, its got a definate light salmon colored blank, Im thinking a tinted fiberglass finish top coat before the buckskin top coat. Again alot like Russ Peak would do for his Brownstone rods of the same period, sanded in fiberglass coats not varnish. Giving the finished bland a harder and more stable finish. While the Eponite 400 Johnson Profile doesnt appear to be a sanded in working finish, rather a final undercoat, it never the less leaves an entirely different blank finish not strippable with Citrus strip like other painted on coats like paint or Varnish. Just some observations that Im working on in documenting for a little entry this year here in our forum. Ive stripped perhaps a dozen rods from the 1960-1964 period, Eponite and Scotchply, and find alot of interesting info that needs to be posted. The most surprising is the yellow wrap series of Master Rods, While written info would suggest later Scotchply blanks, the two examples Ive stripped for repair restoration are clearly based upon earlier pre Johnson Profile Eponite. Likewise the blank goes through another glass coating stage with colored fiberglass in a light Salmon color prior to its buckskin paint job to become a Johnson Profile 400 Eponite fly rod.
My 7ft 7wt tan colored Orvis tip over butt with metal ring Phillipson spin fly rods both appear to me to be fly fox models based on Scotchply Uniglass blanks, and sense one is gonna end up being rebuilt as a pure fly rod, the other with lighter damage to the reel seat cork, a simple grip seat repair I will be glad to paint strip the blanks under the cork to confirm the blank sourse.
Their is nothing wrong with the earlier Scotchply Uniglass rods, fact is my favorites after the Eponites are the Johnson Profile series based on those blanks, I actually like their feel better than the later Epoxites. However for point of clarification and identification here, there is a marked difference.
Based on the use by Orvis, I would guess the Catalogues were at least a year behind actual production, not much different that any other company at the time and the changes in Tech. Likewise the Orvis change from Phillipson supplied blanks to their own in house rolled glass blank based rods is exactly at this period. However I will say their own in house glass is as good as anybody elses, but it is not Scotchply Uniglass or the short lived Phillipson Epoxite supplied Golden Eagle Series. The A and AII rods I have and played with are simple common quality period glass. Mine are clear finish however Ive seen as talked about here some early models very close to color matched to the Phillipson supplied blanks.
However they are most commonly marked as Fullflex A or Fullflex II
Richard

Here are the images and descriptions from the Spring 73 catalog. I sure could be wrong but I assumed the rods pictured were Phillipson made. Anyways ...

Hi Rich, you are right on the money or pretty close with the Connection right after the war between Orvis and Montague. Apparently do to the shortage of bamboo rods and the many returning servicemen, Orvis couldn't keep up with orders, so they licensed Montague to use the Orvis Impregnation method, and supplied the reel seat and some other parts. The guys at the Orvis Custom shop were extremely nice in doing the restoration on this rod. Ive sent in a couple of others over the years for warrantee work and restorations and never been disapointed.

Here's a couple more Orvis rods, the first an Orvis 9ft 9wt Powerflex, clearly it follows the lines of a mid 1960s Phillipson Master fly rod, right down to the no rock reel seat and grip cork. Has the classic Phillipson NS ferrules, however I believe Orvis wrapped the guides, I could be wrong about that though. This rod is clearly made from Scotchply Uniglass and follows closely to my 9ft Johnson Profile flyrod.








Now the 9ft Johnson Profile




Heres another close matchup with a period Phillipson Master same seat, but this time the tip over butt ferrule



Finally still another, this time with NS ferrules and the Scotchply hang tag still on it.



The better grade Fullflex can be seen here in this little pack-spin rod,

Note the scuffing of the male ferrules, the white blank showing through, while the pictures aren't great, my point
here is that on my Epoxites that have similiar scuffing the natural blank under the paint is not this characteristic
white of the Scotchply uniglass blanks.



Note similiar white blank in scuffed off Swamp Fox pack rod from same time period which
was made on the same Scotchply white blanks



A pair of well documented Leonard Phillipsons, Top rod is of the Rangeley series, not the grip,
no rock reel seat and glass ferruling, this rod is basically the Royal Wand series from Phillipson based on the
Scotchply uniglass blank. The lower rod is of the Catskill Series and is made of Epoxite.






Heres another which was available during the period the Power Flex and Full Flex rods were being produced,
this one an Abercrombie and Finch AF75, clearly based on the Phillipson Master line post 1964 and the 3M
Scotchply Uniglass blanks







Finally last but not least the Phillipson Royal Wand with hang tags






I think that when Phillipson came out with his Expoxite line just about everybody who he was supplying had to
have the best too, thus the Golden Eagle line of Orvis rods built on those Epoxite blanks. However Orvis, like
Phillipson and many of the companies being supplied by Orvis continued their existing lines of 3M Scotchply
blank based rod models. Anyway my two cents worth and what my opinion is based upon.
Richard

I just thought I'd mention here that I finally got around to completing the Orvis glass fly rods wiki page insofor as the catalog information is concerned. All rod models and catalog years are now included. You will note that some information is missing. For example, the Golden Eagle rods do not show the ferrule type, as the catalogs do not mention the type of ferrules nor do they show a photo which includes the ferrules.