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Why So Many Fenwicks?
Post 01 Nov 2022, 17:13 • #1 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 06/11/06
Posts: 2516
Location: Nature Coast Florida
Seems like so much love for Fenwicks around here. Just wondering is it because of availability, or do folks truly believe they are better than other rods.

They appear to get way more print than Phillipson, Para/Metric, Silaflex, St Croix and SA System rods.

Are there more of them because people actually thought they were better than the competition or because of price differences in their golden age? Possibly better marketing?

Personally I like several of those brands more, but that could possibly be because of my casting style.

That said I do love 6' Fenwicks. Also, Fenwick certainly offered a wide range of rods.

Barry


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Post 01 Nov 2022, 18:21 • #2 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 09/18/09
Posts: 5561
Location: Relocated to the Drought Stricken West.
I think its availability and consistent numbering. If someone does a review of an FF-806 it's easy to recognize it. Also, the whole Fenwick line was "top shelf" compared to Berkley, wonderrod, Conolon and even Heddon. Phillipson were also all top end rods.

I think people have lost the desire to just buy and try. Barry, I think you and I were some of the masters of buy and try.


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Post 01 Nov 2022, 19:22 • #3 
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Joined: 06/11/06
Posts: 2516
Location: Nature Coast Florida
carlz said:
Quote:
I think people have lost the desire to just buy and try. Barry, I think you and I were some of the masters of buy and try.


True, sadly shipping now costs more than we used to pay for the cost of the rod including shipping.

Can't start to count the rods I've had in my hands for $35 to $40.


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Post 01 Nov 2022, 19:35 • #4 
Guide
Joined: 02/04/14
Posts: 181
Location: US-MA
There are tons of old Fenwicks , and many models


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Post 01 Nov 2022, 20:01 • #5 
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Joined: 05/19/14
Posts: 3924
Location: USA - Illinois
Fenwick was a very respected large production company. I remember way back in the early 70’s going walleye fishing in the UP of Michigan, and saw a top guide loading up his boat with gear - all he had were Fenwick glass spinning rods. Tough, dependable, great quality - I am assuming that alone gave his clients a sense that he knew his stuff and could produce good fishing success, although can’t be certain, just making up his marketing/sales pitch. All his reels were Mitchell. I equate Fenwick glass along side Orvis bamboo - thousands upon thousands of rods produced in configurations to meet any fisherperson’s needs.


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Post 01 Nov 2022, 20:03 • #6 
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Joined: 02/27/16
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Location: US-IL
I think Barry hit a bullseye,their numbering system and consistency in manufacturing probably marketing too makes them easier to discuss.The other major makers were kind of all over the road,some models were outstanding while others were duds.That being said i am not a fan of glass Fenwicks,my casting style or lack of is probably the issue.I do a ton of roll casting and the fenwicks i owned just didn't do it for me.I have i believe an 856 or 865 somewhere i have saved for fishing dries in the Michigan streams.I think they are beautiful rods and have owned several spinning and casting rods by fenwick.I recently got a 41/2 foot fenwick ultralight made from a blank i plan to use in the spring.I just have other flyrods i like better.


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Post 02 Nov 2022, 08:32 • #7 
Guide
Joined: 02/06/16
Posts: 328
Location: US
Some of them are duds. Some are not. Popularity though comes down to price point and availability. Fenwick made a lot of them. And even today the nicer ones can still be found for a very reasonable price compared to modern rods. And for all intents and purposes, they are just as good for someone who is going to fish it less than 10-20 times a year.


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Post 02 Nov 2022, 09:08 • #8 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 04/20/07
Posts: 8920
Location: US-ME
They were in the "aspirational" marketing niche, timed to a growing flyishing specialty market. An everyday product touched with a specialty aura and pricing that made them seem better than many others just as good. They out-classed the low-brow "blue collar" market that pigeon-holed a lot of 'glass of the 50s. The Feralite ferrule--mostly a production economy rather than a performance enhancement--still had "new and better" going for it. Wide availability in many configurations, but spun special rather than ordinary. Plenty of them, so collectible for the fun of it, and some can't-go-wrong fishing rods among them.


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Post 03 Nov 2022, 20:10 • #9 
Guide
Joined: 02/04/14
Posts: 181
Location: US-MA
I had a nice reminder of why Fenwicks are great today. The ff756 casts a half heavy 7 wt full sink like a rocket with two false casts.


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Post 04 Nov 2022, 01:13 • #10 
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Joined: 11/06/17
Posts: 2498
Location: South of Joplin
I think they were the only true production rods of the time, building thousands per week when other shops built dozens or hundreds. Some like the FF80 stand out, while the very similar FF807 is mediocre but sold in the thousands anyway.
60 years later there are just multitudes of survivor rods because there were so many more made than any other company. Sage fills a similar slot today. Don Green must have been a production genius.


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Post 11 Nov 2022, 12:18 • #11 
Master Guide
Joined: 12/29/11
Posts: 510
Location: US-CA
The notion that Fenwicks were popular because of clever marketing is just a bunch of baloney. Jim Green, who designed those rods, was an outstanding caster who designed great rods in glass, graphite and boron. Fenwicks were the choice of discerning casters in the heyday of glass, not becuse they were marketing victims, but because the rods were excellent casters. Jim Green was recognized by other rod designers as a leader and his rods were influenced by and favored by discerning anglers and the top casters at places like the Golden Gate Angling & Casting Club.

The idea that the tip-over-butt Fenwick Feralite ferrule was primarily a cost-saving innovation is also nonsense. It made for a much better transfer of action and power than a metal ferrule, by eliminating the dead spot in the middle of the rod. It also reduced the effect on action of having
a dead weight in the middle of the rod. The advantage to action is the reason why so many companies now use a tip-over-butt ferrule in modern graphite rods. As to the cost-saving, the tip-over-butt ferrule requires two blanks rather than one. You could no longer just cut a single blank in half and ferrule it but had to roll two different blanks with the additional labor cost to make one rod.


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Post 12 Nov 2022, 08:22 • #12 
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Joined: 04/20/07
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Location: US-ME
Well yes and no, or two ways of saying the same thing. It was a production economy that enabled manufacture on separate mandrels. It was a great innovation that produced fine rods. But the tail is wagging the dog to say say marketing had nothing to do with it. Perhaps you don't remember the marketing. I do. I rememember people laughing at the ridiculous webbing wrap but accepting it because they liked the way the rod cast. Fenwick was at the right place at the right time as fisheries were restored, bamboo became more costly, and fiberglass became, not just the poor man's alternative fishin' pole, but the high tech latest and greatest thing. Jim Green being a great caster was also great marketing and he had a good schtick to go with it. He could have sold any number of fine 'glass fly rods and helped popularize them. He did it for/with Fenwick. When west coast fishing lit up, so did the Fenwick brand, and then even the eastern anglers, Atlantic salmon anglers in particular, noticed. And so the brand grew as fly-fishing publishing/media shifted from the quaint eastern venues westward. Fenwick was at the right place at the right time, that's for sure. Better transfer of action power, not really. Stiffer spot requiring more care in design and layup of the two separate pieces, lacking continuity between one another, yes. Dead spot in the middle of the rod, yes. Fiberglass technology was around both before Fenwick and after, when other makers advanced it further. Not worth arguing about, but marketing and manufacture made the design seem far more advantageous than it is from a user standpoint, unless the user planned to break a lot of tip sections. And they did make good rods with it. Casting isn't fishing, but that renown was also well-earned. It is often a persuasive marketing point to people who don't fish or cast a lot. People who did might check out a Fenwick, and if they could get over looking at it (knowing they wouldn't have to while fishing), they might give it a try or put it down in favor of an old favorite or any number of other rods on the rack. Repeating the Golden Gate marketing--it had great influence--is part of the Fenwick branding, which was well done. A technical enhancement, other than in manufacture, not so much.

Reading the patent is a good way to sort the technical claims from the marketing. A long time since I have, but anyone interested can search at the USPTO and decide. As I recall, It was mostly about strength of the ferrule joint. Whether the solution was in search of a problem depends if people broke a lot of their rods at the ferrule, at a time when glass-to-glass joints were new both in manufacture and to users. Not much about flex or transition of energy. On the other hand, not much said about manufacturing improvement, either. Obviously, though, less hand fitting of a separate component.


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Post 12 Nov 2022, 20:39 • #13 
Guide
Joined: 03/02/14
Posts: 144
Location: US-peripatetic
My father got a Feralite in the late 60’s or early 70’s, and it was definitely a nice rod at the time (they still are imo). I remember him saying that he thought there were better rods at the time, but he was happy with it-it seems like it was a very nice option for a blue collar angler-probably above other “blue collar” brands, but not only was it a good rod, it was affordable.


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Post 13 Nov 2022, 09:35 • #14 
Master Guide
Joined: 07/21/21
Posts: 447
Location: Florida
Hi Trev,
You lost me when you described the FF807 as mediocre! :) I’ve got an FF80 and an FF807 and for me they are both great rods Great for back in some of these swampy lakes here in Florida where you need to get that popper into tight spaces and have enough strength to pull those bass out of the weeds.


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Post 13 Nov 2022, 12:16 • #15 
Guide
Joined: 08/11/21
Posts: 208
Location: Tucson, AZ
Agreed with pmd16 - Jim Green and the Fenwick team were first class designers that built rods for serious fishermen. Bringing on Jerry Siem at one point, they founded Sage fly rods when Fenwick went offshore and, not so coincidentally, were dismissed a mere marketers.

In my relatively brief sojourn ..15 years..in the fly fishing retail world, I saw companies experience growing pains while they transitioned from small manufacturers with great designs to mass marketers. Not always easy. Ross Reels had a great design and had to up their production quickly to satisfy a big increase in demand for their reels by fly shops and consumers.

Overall, I experienced the frustration of watching good vendors, manufacturers, get caught up in the marketing world..and then, finally succumb to being run by accountants and getting swallowed up by investment groups, etc. St Croix always stood out as walking that line well, dealing with big box stores and still producing fine equipment. They were, and still are, family run as far as I know. Rio came along and changed things in fly lines, leaders, etc...but SA/ Mastery managed to keep the proshop lines intact for a long time, being part of giant manufacturer 3M.

I am glad so many quality fiberglass rods are still around, Fenwick among them


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Post 13 Nov 2022, 18:06 • #16 
Sport
Joined: 07/27/21
Posts: 46
Location: WV,MD,NC,SC,TN,NY but mostly PA
Because they are awesome :-)


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Post 13 Nov 2022, 22:19 • #17 
Guide
Joined: 07/12/22
Posts: 207
We had a very late fall opening day season at my fly club last weekend. Mainly due to the drought and unseasonal high water temperatures. I showed up with 3 Fenwick’s. An FF 75, an FF75-4 and an FF 85. All early Serial Numbers. Faster than changing flies and lines in my opinion. But, I was casting the FF85 and the other two were laying on the lawn when out of the corner on my eye I see one of the oldest members of my club, maybe 85 or so, walking right towards them. I was hoping he saw them and wouldn’t step on them. He stopped inches in front of them and stops , leans over and asks if they are mine. I said “yes, they are vintage Fenwick’s”. He says, I know, they look brand new”. Then he tells me the entire history about the first non metal ferrule rod. When they first came out, he went to the now closed Spag’s Discount Department Store. Cash only and bought the entire collection. Today another member came into the club with a very nice 1930’s bamboo rod, saw my FF85 and FF 80 and told me about how he still loves his Fenwick FF80more than his bamboo. Interesting that neither of them knew about the 3 and 4 piece travel rods. Another member, clearly an enthusiast and also a certified mountain man in his 80’s told me about his buddy in Maine with the 7 piece rod he called the “Fenswitch”. Whatever that means. But he also told me he gave his favorite FF 807 to his friend because it was the only one he didn’t have in his collection. True friendship. Fiberglass has become popular again for several reasons. Some nostalgic and also for real practical ones. Like less stress on older joints and a more relaxed way of fishing. Not everyone needs to cast a country mile to enjoy fly fishing. There are times when modern fast action rods are desirable. But on a beautiful spring or fall day, casting a Fenwick is like driving a 1963 spilt window Corvette. Another fiberglass Classic. Maybe not the most technologically advanced. But clearly exhilarating and extremely esthetically pleasing. Unless you are European and lean towards Italian or British styling and technology. Not only are they inexpensive and readily available, with a little due diligence, it is possible to find unique versions in almost perfect condition and with interesting histories.


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Post 14 Nov 2022, 21:19 • #18 
Glass Fanatic
Joined: 02/27/16
Posts: 2327
Location: US-IL
I totally agree with your description of glass fly rods.I played around on and off with an old glass heddon .I had fished as far back as i can remember but nobody fly fished.I figured all my expensive carbon spinning and casting rods were so much better than the glass rods i grew up on the same must be true for fly rods.I could not afford the best or even close but settled for big box outdoor house brands.Not cheap but not a week's pay.I could cast farther once i got the timing and line speed right but they had no feel.I broke rods i got frustrated and rarely fly fished except maybe the bluegill spawn.I stopped tying also as i had no use for flies as the delivery systems i was using were not worth the trouble.I picked up that old Heddon again and i could feel it load and everything clicked.Let the rod do its thing and my casting improved immensely.Glass has its groove ,every rod has it's own too.I have never caught as many fish with a flyrod as i can on other gear but the pace and using bugs i made is hard to describe how much fun it is.Throwing crankbaits and spinner baits is a chore to me any more.I fish mostly still water and it takes concentration to animate top water bugs and make a streamer or nymph come to life under the surface.When i am fly fishing that is ALL i am doing is fishing.Not thinking about anything else.


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Post 19 Nov 2022, 18:20 • #19 
Master Guide
Joined: 02/23/10
Posts: 784
Location: SF Bay Area
I acquired my fishing collection of rods using the "buy and try" method including nearly a dozen fenwicks.

In my experience Fenwick's lineup of rods we're consistently well made with good if not great tapers. I'm curious about the dogs that people speak of..

Having said that most of them are relegated to backup rods or for specific situations. For me it's a Gestalt or feel thing. They lack a certain delicacy or sweetness that I prefer. Still some amazing tapers across the lineup.


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Post 20 Nov 2022, 05:45 • #20 
Guide
Joined: 03/12/15
Posts: 269
Location: US-CT
As the owner of 3 Fenwicks, simply, the rods make me feel young again as mine are the vintage of the years when I was in high school and entering college. And most importantly- they are so much fun to fish.


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Post 21 Nov 2022, 08:15 • #21 
Master Guide
Joined: 04/12/18
Posts: 457
I had a ball buying different Fenwicks a few years back, when they were still cheap. The attraction to me was that they were all decent rods, very easy to find, very affordable, and so it was great fun to be able to buy and try a variety of models. Out of a bunch of them, you're bound to find one or two that you just love. You can keep the rest or put them back on the market.

I got started with them after being given one by an elderly friend who no longer fished. After casting it, I realized I needed to reconsider "those old, obsolete 'glass rods" and when researching them, became aware of the resurgence of fiberglass fly rods. I'll always be Fenwick fan!


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